Overturned Airstream on Highway!

[babaloo]

How fast were you traveling?

[Ky76Argosy]

Be Safe. Glad you are well. I too wonder if any sway control bar used. I tow a ‘76 Argosy 26, and weight is similar, but tandem axles helps, and my 2017 Chevy Silverado 5.3 does a respectable job. Towing to AZ I experienced cross-wind and fast moving semi draft effects. So my other question is what speed were you traveling? I drive 65mph so may get to 70mph, but high speed may make trailer float. So in such conditions slow down. What tire pressure? Check tire pressure to maintain sidewall stiffness. I set up rig so hitch end is slightly below horizontal to deflect some air from under trailer. If I start to sway then I hesitate applying hard brakes, but think to accelerate slightly to try to pull sway straight. This works but gets white knuckle on steep downhill when already going faster than I want. I set up trailer brakes so brakes engage slightly firmer first if hit brakes trailer won’t push TV, and may straighten sway. I recommend a sway bar. Or going real slow or both in such conditions. As for sway control, Curtis sway bar is effective, I don’t have weight control as TV handles tongue weight just fine. With little change in headlight direction so good to go. I don’t have a bed or camper top. Also if really windy, I just pullover.

[A.S. Beauty]

Ford Expedition with tow package and sway control bars will do the trick. I had the MAX version and pulled a flying cloud 23’ and never had sway issues or problems. Also, regardless of speed limits, I never drive over 65 when towing.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by JEB

Bull. Here is a sticker from a lighter-weight trailer with a BAL/Norco frame specifically warning against towing with a truck greater than 3/4 ton. See the second bullet point.

Attachment 395175

Hitting it with a bigger hammer is not always the solution.

Don’t know what it is...? I would run

[Jerrylax]

We have a classic 30 and started with a New Tundra which from a spec point of view was marginal...it did the job. However we felt it was just too sketchy pulling steep grades up and braking going down, and severe side winds. We moved to a one ton GMC diesel (single rear wheels)with engine brake and etc.. This made the experience much more relaxing. I might add that I loved the Tundra and hated to replace it...but I do not regret it at all.

[biyak269]

We tow our 27FBC with a Ford Expedition and a Hensley hitch, and are very pleased. We’ve towed it in mountains, high winds, and winter conditions with no problems. We replaced our F250 with the Exped because the ride quality of the truck was terrible, and the long turning radius made parking the trailer a real challenge. The Exped fixed all of that, delivers better mileage, and is comfortable all the time.

BTW we had a near-rollover with a 7 month old AS when an ungreased wheel bearing from the factory failed, lost brake drum, wheel, and all, and swung us across a median, twisting the trailer like a beer can, destroying it. We were using a Reese hitch, and the damn thing didn’t work at all to control sway.

That’s when we went to the Hensley and will stay with it.

[RamRider]

Lots of advice here - but the decision is simple buy a 3/4 ton crew cab of your favorite flavor and a quality WDH hitch ( Reese, BluOx or similar) and be safe. A crew cab with a short bed size wise will be similar to any SUV you would consider. You need some stability in front of your new rig and a heavier truck is the safest option. We came home yesterday in a high wind situation and had no issues with the crosswind gusting over 35 mph.

[BobCA]

Hi, I will agree with others that it's possible to safely tow with an SUV. I towed our 28 International with my '16 Suburban. The numbers "work." What I found was that once I dropped that hitch on, I had little or no allowance for additional weight in the Suburban beyond my wife, dog, and myself. Carrying a generator, camera gear, etc., in the Suburban put me over the limit for cargo.
I also found that towing in mountains (up AND down) and in low gears really put a strain on the transmission and transfer case. I had to replace the transmission in the Suburban after a couple of trips into the California mountains (fortunately under warranty).
So, can it be done. Sure. But I'm now pulling mine with a F-250 SuperDuty with a 6.7 turbo diesel. That diesel brake sure is nice; and that 1000+ lbs. of torque is reassuring.
Bob

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by biyak269

We tow our 27FBC with a Ford Expedition and a Hensley hitch, and are very pleased. We’ve towed it in mountains, high winds, and winter conditions with no problems. We replaced our F250 with the Exped because the ride quality of the truck was terrible, and the long turning radius made parking the trailer a real challenge. The Exped fixed all of that, delivers better mileage, and is comfortable all the time.

BTW we had a near-rollover with a 7 month old AS when an ungreased wheel bearing from the factory failed, lost brake drum, wheel, and all, and swung us across a median, twisting the trailer like a beer can, destroying it. We were using a Reese hitch, and the damn thing didn’t work at all to control sway.

That’s when we went to the Hensley and will stay with it.

..I sold my Hensley...and went back to a Reese duel cam. And we are stay with it

[ForestStranger]

Originally Posted by DebTaylor

Well we got pulled in to a semi tractor trailer draft in an area that was particularly windy north of Vegas. Lost control of the car, trailer wheel broke off as we sailed into the median, Airstream Sport Bambi 22" 2016 flipped on its side and overturned our Mercedes ML 350 tow vehicle. Miraculously four adults and two dogs were uninjured. But boy was it scary!

So we are looking for advice from you please:

1. How do you appropriately and safely handle a swaying and fishtailing trailer?
2. We are thinking of getting a 25' Globetrotter. What SUV is tow worthy?
(need SUV for work. Can't do truck)
3. I understood that if your tow vehicle is 2,000 lbs. greater than what you are
towing, you are safely towing your trailer. True?
4. There is a lot of discussion about tongue weight but how do you weigh
tongue weight?
5. I feel that it is difficult to trust sales folks on both the trailer and tow vehicle
side. They often just want you to buy it! Thoughts on how to purchase tow
vehicle correctly?
6. Given how popular trailers, campers and motor homes are right now, where
can we find dealers with used trailers?
7. If we buy directly from owners with used trailers, where do you take them to
be checked out?
8. When towing capacity of tow vehicles are the same, does the heavier TV
make a difference in controlling sway?

Thank you in advance. Your expertise is greatly appreciated!

Invest in a ProPride Hitch. Expensive, yes. Best money you will ever spend.

[JEB]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

Don’t know what it is...? I would run

2019 T@B 400 Boondock Lite. A very well-made teardrop with an excellent reputation. The BAL/Norco frame is also excellent. Used by nuCamp, Lance and a lot of others. It’s just not designed to take the pounding of a 1-ton. Nor does it need to. Pick the right tool for the job. Applies equally to tow vehicles.

[AKNate]

Originally Posted by Native143

Trailer sway also occurs because too much weight at the back end of the trailer. Keep weight distributed through out trailer and a little more toward the front. 'tail wags the dog" otherwise

I can’t believe it took five pages for someone to say this. Trailer loading is VERY important. Arguably more important than anything else. Putting too much weight behind the axle creates a very unstable system and can throw even a 1 ton truck off the road. There was a story about a month ago where just that happened to an F-350/SOB owner as he was crossing a bridge. The sway threw the truck off the bridge and it was hanging only by one safety chain.
A bigger TV is good since it is less likely to be blown around itself and start sway in the trailer, resists movement from the trailer better, and has more steering leverage against the trailer, but it doesn’t change the stability of the trailer itself at all.
A WD anti sway hitch is also good. They automatically counter any induced sway, to (hopefully) keep the system stable. Some even do change the fundamentals of the trailer by changing the effective pivot point of the connection to the TV, moving it forward more like a 5th wheel and “lengthening” the part of your trailer in front of its axle.
The farthest upstream and most preventative thing you can do for sway though is proper trailer loading. Minimizing the weight behind the trailer axle creates an inherently more stable system. It’s that weight behind the axle which is oscillating causing sway in the TV. Too much weight behind the axle and enough energy input from high speed can create an exponential oscillation, which unchecked will result in a catastrophic accident no matter what.
You should have AT LEAST 10% of your trailer weight on the tongue. Towing with a short wheelbase, soft riding TV, you probably want closer to 15% to ensure safety at highway speeds.
Here’s an article from Trailer Life, published around 30 years ago, that has good info.

http://www.timberman.com/RIG/sway.htm

[SilverWind]

Originally Posted by DebTaylor

Well we got pulled in to a semi tractor trailer draft in an area that was particularly windy north of Vegas. Lost control of the car, trailer wheel broke off as we sailed into the median, Airstream Sport Bambi 22" 2016 flipped on its side and overturned our Mercedes ML 350 tow vehicle. Miraculously four adults and two dogs were uninjured. But boy was it scary!

So we are looking for advice from you please:

1. How do you appropriately and safely handle a swaying and fishtailing trailer?
2. We are thinking of getting a 25' Globetrotter. What SUV is tow worthy?
(need SUV for work. Can't do truck)
3. I understood that if your tow vehicle is 2,000 lbs. greater than what you are
towing, you are safely towing your trailer. True?
4. There is a lot of discussion about tongue weight but how do you weigh
tongue weight?
5. I feel that it is difficult to trust sales folks on both the trailer and tow vehicle
side. They often just want you to buy it! Thoughts on how to purchase tow
vehicle correctly?
6. Given how popular trailers, campers and motor homes are right now, where
can we find dealers with used trailers?
7. If we buy directly from owners with used trailers, where do you take them to
be checked out?
8. When towing capacity of tow vehicles are the same, does the heavier TV
make a difference in controlling sway?

Thank you in advance. Your expertise is greatly appreciated!

Hi Deb,

It would be great to hear what you've learned from the discussion. There is lots of experience and wisdom on AirForums. What do you think?

John

[jump]

I guess I missed where the OP said anything about their hitch. sway control? weight distribution? It would be good to know more details.
Apologies if I missed where this was answered.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by jump

I guess I missed where the OP said anything about their hitch. sway control? weight distribution? It would be good to know more details.
Apologies if I missed where this was answered.

This is key. There's any number of ways to get more stability. Truck. PPP. Hitch adjustment. Weight distribution. The list goes on.

Many have been on this forum long enough to know there's no single elixir to stability. More things have to be done right than wrong. A single thing setup very wrong is enough to spoil the stability equation.

[batt]

First and foremost when encountering a tractor trailer passing you, get your truck and trailer as far to the curb side as possible, like right on the rumble strips if its a bad wind. Most tractor trailer drivers will do the same and pull far to the left. The result in minimal pull on your vehicle.


Get get a TV with a wide wheel base( distance from front to back means a longer diagonal distance. Pick up or SUV , get top rated radial tires. If the vehicle comes with normal narrow tires get winder rims and put a 10" wide tire on, you get much more stability. Do the same on your Trailer, Good Year (Endurance trailer tires) makes the only trailer tire made in the US which is rated at 80 mph and is inspected, most other tires are made in China and literally fall apart. Top grade tires at the correct pressure means stability!



Read all about hitches and sway bars and setting them up. Don't rely on anyone's opinions , know what you are doing and how to properly hitch up. Most people don't have a clue and consequently don't get any advantage from the sway bars.


Like everyone else says apply the trailer brake only if it begins to sway. However if you have it all set right you shouldn't have the problem.
best of luck.

[Kamiak]

I usually don’t post to multi-page threads because I generally feel that after a couple of pages, everything has been said, at least twice. Still, I’d like to add my two cents to this topic, based upon my experience.

Sway can be very frightening, and I’ve experienced the tail-wagging-the dog twice in over 50 years of towing various types of recreational trailers, both times heading downhill where I lost my concentration and kept my foot on the accelerator as I approached the crest. Once, long ago, towing a cargo trailer with a bumper hitch on a passenger car, and once towing a boat with a Jeep Cherokee with a short, 105” wheel base. Fortunately, the cargo trailer had electric brakes, so I was able to bring it under control when I finally remembered to manually apply the trailer brakes, and despite the poor hitch set-up, load shifting, and trailer weight distribution. Like most boat trailers, mine had surge brakes, not something you can manually operate. Luckily, I was able to also bring it under control after a few harrowing moments by doing all the wrong things right (sounds like a country song), i.e., I very slowly applied the TV brakes to try to create the speed differential to engage the surge brakes, and I carefully downshifted to one lower gear trying to arrest the tail-wagging-the dog experience.

The sway described by JEB, where the freewheeling trailer begins to overtake the tow vehicle on a non-parallel vector is most likely to occur heading downhill. Sway can also take place on level ground when a vehicle approaches from the rear in an adjacent lane. I understood the original post to suggest that is what they experienced, though I could easily be wrong. In my experience, the primary contributors to sway are (in no particular order):

1) Excessive towing speed;
2) The size, shape, and speed of the approaching vehicle;
3) Wind speed;
4) Wind direction;
5) Tow vehicle weight, especially vis-à-vis the trailer weight;
6) Tow vehicle wheel base vis-à-vis the trailer length (especially the hitchball to axle or axle midpoint distance);
7) Actual trailer weight distribution (inadequate tongue weight); and
8) The presence or absence of sway control mechanisms in your hitch.

I tow my 25-foot Airstream with a ¾ ton, 131” wheel-base Yukon that typically weighs in at about 7,500 pounds all by itself, powered by an 8.1 liter engine (as the old saying goes, there’s no substitute for displacement). I might add that there’s also no substitute for tow vehicle wheel base, and my 131” is about the least that I would consider for my trailer. From a towing perspective, I would be better off with a pickup, most of which provide an even longer wheelbase for a better relationship than I have between my tow vehicle and the trailer.

I have never experienced sway towing my Airstream with either this Yukon or a similar, earlier model. My weight distribution system is not a premium set up that some prefer; rather it is a basic Drawtite/EZ-Lift style with 1,000 bars. The system uses adjustable friction plates to control sway, and depending upon road and wind conditions, I travel with no sway control, one sway control, or two sway controls. I don’t travel fast, typically within the posted towing speed limits. If I’m traveling a typical two-lane mountain, curvy, or country road, I don’t use sway control because my speeds are low, system wear would be excessive, high-speed, rear-approaching vehicles from the adjacent lane do not happen, and sway doesn’t enter the equation. And, I’m now very careful about reducing my speed as I approach the crest of a hill or summit. For normal freeway travel in moderate winds, I use one sway control. I have used two sway control mechanisms only rarely, in high-wind situations, over the past 21 years with this Airstream and over 80,000 miles.

I have experienced the beginning of sway, perhaps like what the original post experienced prior to the loss of control, but my tow vehicle and hitch system maintained control. The beginning of sway is where the bow wake of a rear-approaching vehicle pushes the road side rear of the trailer to one side, away from the approaching vehicle (to the right assuming that one is being passed on the left), resulting in a directional change in the front of the trailer towards the lane of the approaching vehicle. This obviously changes the vector relationship between the trailer and the tow vehicle, pushing the tow vehicle rear toward the lane of the approaching vehicle. Your speed, the size and speed of the approaching vehicle, wind speed and direction, and the relationships between your tow vehicle weight and wheel base to the trailer will be important factors in whether this is merely a sensation of being drawn into the next lane, or a true catastrophe.

I see many questions on this forum asking about specific tow vehicles, far smaller, shorter, and lighter than I would consider, seemingly, understandably seeking validation for the tow vehicle they already have or are longing to acquire. I’ll leave those judgments to the experts. Nearly any tow vehicle will tow on flat land, modest hills, and mild weather (even a man on a bike if I’m to believe the old marketing picture). But will they safely tow, stop, or maintain control in the up and down mountains of the west in high-wind conditions, or if approached from the rear on the interstate by a large, high speed vehicle, especially if you’ve violated the critical relationships between tow vehicle and trailer weights, and wheel base? You really won’t know until that oops moment arrives, and the violation may be unforgiving.

I hope this long-winded comment helps.

[AlbertF]

Originally Posted by JEB

2019 T@B 400 Boondock Lite. A very well-made teardrop with an excellent reputation. The BAL/Norco frame is also excellent. Used by nuCamp, Lance and a lot of others. It’s just not designed to take the pounding of a 1-ton. Nor does it need to. Pick the right tool for the job. Applies equally to tow vehicles.

I’m reminded of Inland Andy’s assertions years ago that ¾ and 1 ton trucks were too stiff for Airstreams, and would cause separation of the shell from the frame. Owners of 1970s trailers understand rear separation. According to Andy it can happen at the front too, and vibration from unbalanced tires and pounding from a too-stiff tow vehicle were the causes.

I suppose contemporary ¾ ton trucks are more softly sprung, but it is something to consider.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by DebTaylor

Well we got pulled in to a semi tractor trailer draft . . .
. . .
Thank you in advance.
. . .

Wondering if you [OP] have been following this discussion, as your last comment was almost a week ago?

Thanks,

[AKNate]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Wondering if you [OP] have been following this discussion, as your last comment was almost a week ago?

Thanks,

Airforums can also be an unstable exponential oscillation, like sway. One nudge, like a semi passing, from a single question involving hitches or TVs will rapidly grow into 8 pages of ever longer reply’s with no further input required from the OP. At some point the thread typically careens off the road too...