Can I tow it?

[streamluv]

Hi! I'm new to the Airstream life, but I'm looking at buying a 2013 19 foot Bambi. I have a 2010 Toyota FJ Cruiser that I'm planning to tow it with. Do you think I can safely tow it? Thanks!

[Mollysdad]

I vote, Yes!
The FJ is rated to tow 5000 pounds and has a 1300 pound payload .
The Bambi Weight with LP & Batteries: 3,650 lbs. Cargo Capacity 1,350 lbs.
So it puts you right at the limit of the FJ specs, but the FJ is a pretty robust vehicle, plus it would be fun to have off roading too! The FJ is a 4.0 L. V-6, and I'd think the 5000 pound limit is due to the hitch more than the rest of the car.

Soon, you'll get other opinions, some recommending a F-350 diesel as a minimum.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

According to the never trustworthy internet your vehicle has a tow limit of 5,000 pounds. If you are looking at the trailer I think you are, it has a max weight of 4,500 pounds. So far so good.

The receiver on your FJ has a weight limit stamped on it. For whatever reason, I can't quite see it from here ( bad eyesight / to much beer ... take your pick). It would not be uncommon for it to be a 500 pound rated part if it's factory stock. If you go aftermarket, there are a range of options.

The tongue weight on the trailer is rated at 550 pounds and likely is heavier than that. The receiver also supports the hitch and shank which can add another couple hundred pounds depending on what you get.

If the receiver really is rated at 500 pounds max, you would need to swap it out. There are a lot of shops happy to do this sort of thing.

Next layer is the yellow sticker on the door post of your vehicle. It is highly specific to your rig so there is no way to guess at this. It might say something like 1,375 pounds. It could easily say something very different. You very much need to get this information off of the sticker on your vehicle.

First thing that comes off is the tongue weight of the loaded trailer + hitch + shank. For grins let's call that 800 pounds and move on. That puts you at 575 pounds still to use up. If the driver weighs 200 lb, you are down to 375. If the three dogs come in at 400 total, you are 25 over.

Yes those numbers are made up. What will matter in your case are the numbers specific to your situation. Maybe your dogs are bigger . The purpose is mainly to illustrate that payload usually is what kills the deal when towing with a vehicle like this.

Think we're done? Not yet.

That same sticker has numbers for the front and rear axle. Those numbers are very important. The payload needs to be distributed so each gets the "right" amount of load. Put to much on the rear end and you don't get the full payload number. A weight distributing hitch is your friend in this case. It needs to be adjusted by visiting a CAT scale to make sure it's dialed in right.

As a matter of practicality, visiting the CAT scale at the start of every trip to see if the dogs have put on weight is a big time PIA. Heading back home to unload some of the beer is also painful. For this reason, most folks like to leave a bit of "room" in the numbers. That way they can head out and go camping without the CAT scale nonsense on each trip. Is 200 pounds enough? Who knows ....

Still not quite done.

A safe tow ( = all the numbers add up ) may not be a fun tow. Manufacturers simply are concerned about you being able to get to 45 mph and not self destruct. That may or may not fit your lifestyle. Some vehicles are better adapted to off road. They do "ok" on road. Set them up for towing and some term equating to "not ok" may be used.

So, you really won't know if it works for you with your loading and your needs until you try it (assuming the numbers work out) .....

Bob

[richard5933]

Do they even make a hitch with a tongue rating higher than 500 lbs for the FJ Cruiser?

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by richard5933

Do they even make a hitch with a tongue rating higher than 500 lbs for the FJ Cruiser?

Hi

I'm sure somebody does and / or can beef up the rear end to get the job done. How much weight that adds .... who knows.

Bob

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi



I'm sure somebody does and / or can beef up the rear end to get the job done. How much weight that adds .... who knows.



Bob

The reason I asked is that I didn't see anything listed online with more than 500 tongue weight, which was a red flag for me that perhaps there is a structural reason.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by richard5933

The reason I asked is that I didn't see anything listed online with more than 500 tongue weight, which was a red flag for me that perhaps there is a structural reason.

Hi

Could be. There are a lot of places that weld this or weld that on in addition to just putting on a receiver. The big concern to me is how the suspension is set up. Since I don't have an FJ, I don't have an answer to that. Jeeps are famous for providing a "less than fun" tow experience if you have the full up off road versions. It's not the front and rear lockers that create the problem

Bob

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by richard5933

Do they even make a hitch with a tongue rating higher than 500 lbs for the FJ Cruiser?

I dabbled around Google and the short answer is "No". All the aftermarket 2" receivers that bolted on the FJ frame were called "class III", and as such are rated for 500/5000. Now does that mean your 5500 pound trailer will cause a failure? No. It's a class of hitch and someone decided that class III was 500/5000.
They seem to be one crossmember with plates bolting to the frame. It may be the rear axle and other components prevent adding a beefier hitch, but then it's a FJ Cruiser so it's still rated a 500#. No reason for a class IV.

Just for fun I looked at aftermarket class IV receivers. There's not a lot of difference from a class III. I think Toyota decided to rate the FJ to tow 5000 pounds, and so it's called a class III. It may be because of the shorter wheelbase rather than the strength of the chassis.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

... No. It's a class of hitch and someone decided that class III was 500/5000.. .

Likely there was some engineering that went into the decision, and it wasn't just someone making a random choice.

[mkcurtiss]

You have a vehicle that is not designed for heavy towing, but that bambi would probably be ok….
Lots of vehicles like yours and one of mine(jeep cherokee xj), are quite capable on their own, but were never intended to be tow vehicles, and were not designed with towing in mind, thus they usually do not come with tow mode, heavy duty hitches, etc……they are built to be lightweight, agile, off road capable……you can tow your bambi with your fj, but it will probably be no fun and may tear it up….

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by streamluv

Hi! I'm new to the Airstream life, but I'm looking at buying a 2013 19 foot Bambi. I have a 2010 Toyota FJ Cruiser that I'm planning to tow it with. Do you think I can safely tow it? Thanks!

Personally I don't like the rougher riding, taller with higher center of gravity & softer off-road suspensions of the FJ, Gland Bruiser & 4Runner, & their Lexus GX & LX twins for towing - but your 2020 FJ should be fine.

Here is some solid towing advice from a specific FJ Forum -

https://www.fjcruiserforums.com/thre...ruiser.719962/


FYI - we have that same Hensley Cub WD/AS hitch as on the 2nd FJ + Trailer post's pix, & it made a similar dramatic improvement from "bare ball" towing with some rental 2013 Nissan Pathfinders back in 2012-13 for our 1960 Avion T20 (21'-6" L & 3000-3500 lbs & 542 lbs HW including 160# H-Cub).

https://hensleymfg.com/products/the-hensley-cub/

They also sell reconditioned ones with the same as new lifetime warranty, if they have any in stock - so call or email them. I also recco getting the one with the wind-up/down jacks to adjust the torsion bars - for more exact & infinite WD adjustments, as well as to save the work of muscling-up the WD chains.


So I would recco getting one for your Bambi, plus you may want to mount a Tekonsha Prodigy RF wireless brake controller on your Bambi (vs an under-dash Tekonsha Prodigy) - so that you can swap tow vehicles freely &/or in an emergency with a rental or shop loaner.

https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Bra...ID=20105003328

Check around for best price & sale price though.


From the FJ Forum post, it sounds like you'll want to replace the factory hitch with a better rated & stronger hitch receiver suitable for WD & AS duties. Here are some from eTrailer, but they're widely available - so again check around for best prices & availability.

https://www.etrailer.com/hitch-2010_...tm?&Redirect=8

Also note there that the WD ratings are 6000/600 lbs - not the base bare ball 5000/500 rating that others are quoting here.

Plus there are other brands like Curt, etc. which make them to fit your FJ.

https://www.curtmfg.com/part/13367

You can also get a class IV or other Class III hitch receivers which are rated higher than your FJ's 5000 lbs Trailer rating - & with higher HW ratings - but just tow up to the FJ's factory vehicle limit of 5000 lbs - which is 500 lbs less than your Bambi 19' Sport's max rating as wet & loaded.

Hopefully this helps getting your FJ set-up. You can also email Andy T. at CanAm RV for more tips & info on setting up your FJ, whether you should reinforce the hitch for better WD, etc. - since he sets up a lot of smaller TVs, & he's a member on this forum. Check out his "Hitch Hints" articles & towing info videos too.

https://www.canamrv.ca/

https://www.canamrv.ca/towing-expertise/


You should be fine with your FJ, unless it doesn't fit your personal preferences & comfort for on the road towing.

Besides, you're just 3 years away from your FJ being a a true 25 year Classic & Historic Vehicle!

Cheers!
Tom
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[Helper]

Realize that your vehicle towing a 5,000 pound trailer at sea level will underperform in areas of higher elevations such as in the Rockies. It will likely be very underpowered when driving up high elevation passes.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Just coming back to the basics.

AS lists the tongue weight as 550 pounds. That's on an empty trailer and in some parallel universe. It's a good bet that loaded and on this planet, it is up around 650 to 750 pounds on the tongue. There's still the hitch and shank to toss into that math ....

Bob

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Just coming back to the basics.

AS lists the tongue weight as 550 pounds. That's on an empty trailer and in some parallel universe. It's a good bet that loaded and on this planet, it is up around 650 to 750 pounds on the tongue. There's still the hitch and shank to toss into that math ....

Bob

Bob -

No trailer needs to be loaded in such a way as to run up the HW that high by 100-200 lbs - & the 3763 lbs empty weight of the OP's 2013 Bambi 19' is starting out with a HW closer to 377 - 459 lbs empty at 10-12% of the empty trailer wt. which includes all equipment, that the max AS rated 550 HW at 4500 lbs GTWR is at. Instead you're adding 100-200 lbs to the AS's top gross weight rating HW - which is not the case - plus the HW can be balanced by the owner as noted below.

I believe that trailer manufacturers for a number of years back into the 1980s must accurately list the maximum HW / Payload / Tongue Wt. etc. that results from equipment, options & loading the trailer to the GTW - which is 4500 lbs on their `13 Bambi, & with 550 lbs HW which is at 12.2%.

However, that would not include what the owner overloads into their trailer &/or adding a WD/AS hitch, larger LP tanks, & other accessories to the A-frame.

Also, the Class III hitches have different load bearing vs distributed HW ratings - with the latter being higher & up to 800 lbs on some (the 2 I posted for the OP above were 600 lbs HW distributed).

Likewise, the OP's 2010 FJ should have both a load-bearing & a distributed GTWR & HW rating - & the FJ Forum recco seems to be for WD/AS hitch.

Additionally - HW is one of the easiest to balance out on the trailer - especially on single axle trailers - by how you load the trailer & tanks' levels. By using an AS approved rear Fiamma Bike Rack with your bikes within the AS & Fiamma limits - vs. an A-frame bike rack or in/on the FJ or other TV can lessen the HW load by a significant amount.

Likewise, how much is carried in the LP, Fresh, Grey & Black Tanks, where the heavy items are stowed - preferably low & close to the axles, but slightly behind the axle will ease off the HW as well (within the Bambi's GTWR limits).

Our 1960 Avion T20 was factory listed at 2680 lbs TW & 270 lbs HW without options & tanks (i.e.: as a park model) - and is actually as optioned/restored, wet & loaded 3000-3500 lbs with a 542 Lbs HW - which includes "extras" of 2 full "up-sized" 30 lb LP tanks, a Tekonsha RF brake controller on an 18" x 22" steel mounting plate, & 160 lbs at the Hensley Cub - so about 342 lbs of HW excluding the Cub & RF unit. But I can rebalance that 542 lbs HW by about 100-125 lbs lower when the bikes & rack are mounted to the rear bumper.

Also worth considering is that for the PPP (Pivot Point Projection) type of hitches from Hensley & ProPride - there is no need to have 10-15% HW to keep the trailer on the ball, because their hitch head/pivot assembly locks into & onto the trailer coupler, and the TV to TT connection is with a double-ended 2" square tow bar "Stinger" - such that both the TV & Trailer are solidly connected to the hitch, & all the turning & pivoting action occurs within the PPP hitch head assembly.

So HW can be drastically lowered to less than 10% if necessary by such creative trailer loading noted above, as with our Hensley Cub & the one in the FJ photos at my link above.

Also, with WD the FJ's F & R axles' GAWR will be spread out fore & aft & to the trailer - so those numbers will also benefit from a WD hitch.

There are also slightly lighter WD hitches out there - such are EAZ-Lift & others recommended by Andy T/CanAm & others on here, if adding the 160 lb Hensley Cub to the OP's 19' Bambi were an issue.

Best practice in setting up the OP's rig would be to use a Sherline Hitch Scale (or other scale) to get an accurate in use loaded HW, as well as going to the CAT or other scales to weigh the TV & TT each Axle, Trailer, TV & Combined weights as loaded & set-up for travel.

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Helper

Realize that your vehicle towing a 5,000 pound trailer at sea level will underperform in areas of higher elevations such as in the Rockies. It will likely be very underpowered when driving up high elevation passes.

I can echo that in practice ...

We noticed that slow down even at or near sea level with our lighter 3000-3500 lbs 1960 Avion T20 hitched to the rented 2013 Nissan Pathfinders with a 4.0L V6 (with AT or CVT) rated for 6000 lbs trailers, & the drivetrain is similar to the OP's 2010 FJ.

The Pathfinders would slow down drop a gear or two on the moderate grade US 101 Grade southbound out of Camarillo, or the I-5 grade north out of the San Fernando Valley - neither of which were at high altitude.

I'm sure it would've been more at higher altitudes, &/or with a heavier 3800-4500 lbs trailer like the OP's 19' Bambi - but you just slow down, down gear, & take your time.

Cheers!
Tom
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[2012FB]

Someone mentioned an F350 was needed for your Bambi. Make sure it is a diesel. In all seriousness enjoy pulling your Bambi with your FJ. I would. Might want to put a lift on the trailer for the out back adventures your are sure to have. Enjoy!

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

...I believe that trailer manufacturers for a number of years back into the 1980s must accurately list the maximum HW / Payload / Tongue Wt. etc. that results from equipment, options & loading the trailer to the GTW - which is 4500 lbs on their `13 Bambi, & with 550 lbs HW which is at 12.2%.

However, that would not include what the owner overloads into their trailer &/or adding a WD/AS hitch, larger LP tanks, & other accessories to the A-frame.

...Additionally - HW is one of the easiest to balance out on the trailer - especially on single axle trailers - by how you load the trailer & tanks' levels. By using an AS approved rear Fiamma Bike Rack with your bikes within the AS & Fiamma limits - vs. an A-frame bike rack or in/on the FJ or other TV can lessen the HW load by a significant amount.

...Also worth considering is that for the PPP (Pivot Point Projection) type of hitches from Hensley & ProPride - there is no need to have 10-15% HW to keep the trailer on the ball, because their hitch head/pivot assembly locks into & onto the trailer coupler, and the TV to TT connection is with a double-ended 2" square tow bar "Stinger" - such that both the TV & Trailer are solidly connected to the hitch, & all the turning & pivoting action occurs within the PPP hitch head assembly.

So HW can be drastically lowered to less than 10% if necessary by such creative trailer loading noted above, as with our Hensley Cub & the one in the FJ photos at my link above. ...
Tom

Seems to me that you've got some factual errors...

1) Regardless of whether or not manufacturers are required to have accurate weights lists for their trailers, it appears quite common that Airstream's published tongue weight numbers are lower than reality. This is before owners even begin loading their trailers. I know it's the case with my 1994 Excella and from forum postings it seems to be the case with many trailers. However, the maximum tongue weight limit still seems to be a 'do not exceed' number.

2) "Balancing out" hitch weight by adding weight to the rear of a trailer by adding a bike rack or other cargo is one of the worst things you can do to help with stability on the road. Yes, it will reduce hitch weight but it will only aggravate sway. Your point about using tanks (if they are located over the axles) to help stabilize does seem correct. Centralized weight does produce a more stable tow.

3) The reason that 10% or more of the gross trailer weight is recommended to be on the tongue is not to "keep the trailer on the ball". It's to stabilize the trailer going down the road and reduce the possibility of sway incidents. In Europe people commonly tow with less tongue weight as a percentage of gross weight, but they also commonly tow at much slower speeds than we do. It would be quite unheard of for someone to tow a caravan down the motorway at 75 mph like we see in the US. As speed increases, so does the likelihood of sway incidents.

[2012FB]

I have had one major sway moment coming back from Boise to Denver. I cleared an overpass while in a big curve and on the exit side a very large gust of wind hit the trailer. My 2014 ML350 Diesel automatically clamped the 25FBT trailer brakes just enough to immediately correct. After that never gave sway control issues another thought.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by 2012FB

I have had one major sway moment coming back from Boise to Denver. I cleared an overpass while in a big curve and on the exit side a very large gust of wind hit the trailer. My 2014 ML350 Diesel automatically clamped the 25FBT trailer brakes just enough to immediately correct. After that never gave sway control issues another thought.

Interesting feature - and nice to have your car know exactly what to do and do it before most of us could even think about it.

[Dennis C]

It is a nice feature. My Denali truck has it too. I think most modern pickups have this feature as part of their stability control system. That said, I’m always ready to hit the trailer brakes if the need arises!