Adding one 100aH LION to my 2016 22' Sport

[GaryRI]

Wondering if I can replace the lead acid battery with one Battle Born 100 Ah LiFePO4 Deep Cycle battery without changing anything else.

[field & stream]

Yes, and no. It will work, but without changing to a lithium compatible converter you will not get a full charge on the battery, thereby decreasing the benefits of the conversion. Lithium battery state of charge is notoriously hard to determine with just a voltmeter so a good battery monitor (like Victron 712) is strongly recommended. Another good addition is a dc to dc converter to protect your TV’s alternator. Cost of each is a few hundred.

We converted to a single 100 Ah Battleborn and are very glad we did.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

The charger / converter in your 2016 probably never gets above about 13.4V. That's bad news for a lithium battery. In order to properly "balance" they need to get up above 14.4V. Without the balance function operational, all bets are off in terms of how long your battery will last. ( = it might only be a few hundred cycles .... ).

The stock converter / charger is not "the best of the best". It's pretty close to the bottom of the barrel in that respect. Even if you keep the lead acid, changing it out might be a good idea.

One other note:

The batteries used in RV's are LiFePO4 rather than Lithium Ion. The Lithium Ion battery runs at a different voltage and has a shorter life span. They also are a bit more compact. This only matters if you run into a charger that is set up for Lithium Ion rather than LiFePO4.

Bob

[GaryRI]

So did you just upgrade the converter? And which one?

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by GaryRI

So did you just upgrade the converter? And which one?

Hi

The converter charger that came with my trailer failed early. I could have replaced it under warranty. I didn't bother. It's simply not that great a device.

I then went with a converter / charger from a highly recommended supplier. That one failed in 3 weeks. Still waiting for them to replace it under warranty. It's been three years so I *really* doubt I'll ever see it.

I eventually went with a Victron MultiPlus 2000 hybrid inverter / converter / charger. It's not exactly cheap but it's a fantastic unit.

Bob

[field & stream]

I went with a less expensive converter (no inverter capability) recommended to me by Battle Born tech support: Progressive Dynamics Part Number PD 4655VL. You can find them online for about $270; diy installation is not hard or not much to pay someone.

I suggest you call Battle Born and describe your planned usage and get their input.

[ChrisnPatty]

We swapped out our lead acid battery for one 100 Ah Battle Born battery in our 2012 22FB a couple years ago and at the same time changed out the guts of the WFCO charger/converter with the new guts recommended by BB. The charger/converter change was relatively inexpensive, easy, and straightforward and has been trouble free. A BB technical rep (Dragonfly Energy) told us there was no need for additional alternator protection with this set up given the long cable length and small size of the system. At the time I also added the Victron monitor, but I don't see it as any more of a necessity than when I had a lead acid battery. On the contrary, you are more likely to over drain and damage a lead acid battery than the lithium replacement.

[chaeha]

I have a 2013 Sport 22. I’m sure I’m doing all sorts of things wrong but after my 2 lead acid batteries crapped out 3 years ago I replaced them with 1 battle born and changed nothing else. No new converter. No voltmeter. And it’s been great. To the point I don’t ‘worry’ about my state of charge for short 2-3 night trips. I don’t even check my voltage really on those shorter trips until I get home and I’ve had plenty of reserve every time.

[field & stream]

ChrisnPatty makes a good point about the reduced (almost eliminated) risk of damaging your battery by running it down. The Battle Born will shut itself down before any damage occurs.

The argument for the Victron monitor is that without it you will not really know the state of charge and could be surprised by a shutdown. If your style of camping is to be plugged in all or most of the time, or very short trips, this is not really a risk. But, if you camp off grid for any length of time then the risk goes up. For example, we were camping in the Rockies last week and the overnight temperatures were in the low 20’s — I sure wanted the comfort of knowing there was enough power left to run the furnace!

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by chaeha

I have a 2013 Sport 22. I’m sure I’m doing all sorts of things wrong but after my 2 lead acid batteries crapped out 3 years ago I replaced them with 1 battle born and changed nothing else. No new converter. No voltmeter. And it’s been great. To the point I don’t ‘worry’ about my state of charge for short 2-3 night trips. I don’t even check my voltage really on those shorter trips until I get home and I’ve had plenty of reserve every time.

Hi

Based on what folks saw "back in the day" before they put balance setups on lithium RV / boat / solar batteries ... you can be fine for a while and then everything goes downhill very quickly.

You need *something* in the setup to get your batteries up to 14.4V, at least on an occasional basis.

Bob

[PB_NB]

I went with a 55amp GoPower inverter and put in in the same place as the original one. The GoPower unit has an adjustable DC output so I could dial it in to 14.3V. Seems to work well but when the fan comes on, it is noticeable.

[Sport 16 STL]

If you have roof top solar and a lithium solar controller, additional changes are less necessary. The controller will have adequate voltage for full charging and balancing. Uncle Bob please correct me if I am wrong.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by field & stream

SNIP QUOTE
I suggest you call Battle Born and describe your planned usage and get their input.

X2

Just what I did...followed their recommendations.

Very 😄 with the results. 👍

Bob
🇺🇸

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Sport 16 STL

If you have roof top solar and a lithium solar controller, additional changes are less necessary. The controller will have adequate voltage for full charging and balancing. Uncle Bob please correct me if I am wrong.

Hi

It *might* get to the right voltage if programmed to do so. The question is: does it get to full charge on solar *and* how long does it hold that voltage? (both a programming and a "how much sun" issue). Ideally you would like it to sit constantly above 14.4 for about an hour.

When we are on solar, those two goals are rarely (if ever) hit. Yes, that's with 400W of solar and a 30' Classic with all it's gizmos. It's also with 400AH of battery. Every situation is different .....

Bob

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

It *might* get to the right voltage if programmed to do so. The question is: does it get to full charge on solar *and* how long does it hold that voltage? (both a programming and a "how much sun" issue). Ideally you would like it to sit constantly above 14.4 for about an hour.

When we are on solar, those two goals are rarely (if ever) hit. Yes, that's with 400W of solar and a 30' Classic with all it's gizmos. It's also with 400AH of battery. Every situation is different .....

Bob

^
Yes

We use 360w of portable solar and don't depend on it to syncro/balance the BB's.
Shore power accomplishes that task for us.

Bob
🇺🇸

[pteck]

Originally Posted by GaryRI

Wondering if I can replace the lead acid battery with one Battle Born 100 Ah LiFePO4 Deep Cycle battery without changing anything else.

BBs are great batteries. What your proposing is certainly doable. It wouldn't necessarily maximize the value of the batteries. You may also want to be aware of some things to go in eyes wide open.

- LiFePO4 batteries are selfish in the sense that they will hard cutoff to protect themselves when capacity is used. Vice lead acids that give you ample warning and have built in emergency reserves (even if that may compromise battery life). This may seem to be a good trade, until something like running the furnace in the middle of the night and the battery and electrical system turn off. Hard. No lights, no nothing. That's not fun and the re-start is even worse perhaps in the frigged cold. Combine that with a non-optimal converter that doesn't maximize 100Ah of capacity, and you may be coming up short on the regular with a single BB.

- Your dollars may be better spent on real power production. Everyone's first thought is batteries, but like a bank account without income, reserves will only ever go so far. With ample generation and production, reserves matter much less. I'd encourage you to spend the money in solar. Installed or portable. There's some great 100 and 200W briefcase portable panels these days that could help you run indefinitely with modest batteries. Magic happens when power produced matches or exceeds power consumed, almost regardless of batteries. For most, 200-400W of solar does the trick.

- If you want lithium, for actual expanded use cases and capacity above and beyond what you have today, rather than just replacing existing capacity, take a look at a different strategy with portable lithium generators. More at the link in my sig.

[GaryRI]

Thanks for input. Going to have the shop that stores my trailer in Texas add a Battleborn plus converter.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

With any design, you can go to far in one direction or to far in another direction. 1,000 W of solar with 100AH of battery is a bad tradeoff. Equally 100W of solar on a 1,000 AH lithium bank is very much a "why bother?" sort of thing.

Is 2X the battery AH in solar watts the right number? Should they be equal? Very much a that depends sort of thing.

For most folks, there is a finite amount of solar you can fit on the roof. Adding portable panels past that is *highly* questionable in terms of performance. The controller setup gets a bit crazy. Just slapping them on ... not so much.

Bob

[TouringDan]

Originally Posted by GaryRI

Thanks for input. Going to have the shop that stores my trailer in Texas add a Battleborn plus converter.

That is a good decision- one BB battery plus a Progressive Dynamics lithium battery converter.

Dan

[guskmg]

Since most mount fixed solar panels, you need more to compensate for the changing sun angle. My 800 watt panels do a good job charging my 600AH Lithiums. I could stand more and the additional panels do not cost all that much.
guskmg