2007 - Dave Winick 75th Bambi 19ft or...

[campadk]

We're considering the limited edition David Winick remodel of the 19ft Bambi (07). We checked it out today along with the International 19ft and the 16ft Bambi. There are still some around (4 in New England currently), and I hear from AS that production should complete sometime around September.

David did an excellent job at remodelling the Bambi and bringing back some of the retro styling. (we aren't much for the current style of the Safari or International 19fters). He also improved use of space and changed the bed to a slick bed/couch combo. Was a bit disappointed not to have at least the wrap around window at the front which we love on the 16ft Bambi, but the 75th anniverary is definately more inviting and less confining than any other 16 or 19ft we have seen. Probably a much better choice for longer camping sessions. (we currently camp about 30-35 days a year in a 4x10ft teardrop).

Part of our dilema is having to replace our tow vehicle... definately for a 19fter, on the fence about changing for the 16ft Bambi.

Anyone with either have experience with Jeeps and a 16/19ft Bambi? We have a Jeep Liberty which has a short 104.5" wheelbase, 3.7L and 5000lb rating. Not real interested in driving around a honkin truck or megasize SUV. Will certainly add a dual-cam hitch. Suggestions mucho appreciated.

Anyone have comments/experience with the shower/toilet combo of the 16ft Bambi? I'm wondering if down the road we would be wishing we had the larger shower, separate toilet in a 19ft if we went for the 16ft instead.

Anyone else with David Winick's anniversary model?

Thanks

Dave

[CanoeStream]

Hello Dave and welcome to the Forums!

I'll comment principally on the tow vehicle question. It doesn't look good for the Liberty. First we need to add up how much load your Jeep Liberty should carry whether you have a trailer behind you or not. Jeep's website says for current models that maximum payload capacity is 1150# for all versions and drivetrains (click 'Specifications' along left column; this figure is located down in the Capacities/Weights section). Your owners manual will give your specific number but I'd suspect it'll be in the same ballpark. Vehicle durability is one issue. More important are the safety issues of maneuverability, emergency avoidance and braking. You do not want to exceed this payload, especially at highway speeds and pulling a trailer. Some will advocate for not having more than 85% of your payload capacity onboard. Now ... the 1150# is for the base Jeep Liberty model without options. If the model as ordered came with options or you added any aftermarket hitch receiver or other options, they all subtract from the 1150# before you turn the key.

Airstream specs state that the 75th Anniversary Bambi has a tongue weight of 530# without options. This is a one axle trailer so I'd assume you'd want the optional spare tire; that is stored underneath near the trailer front, so most of its weight would be transferred to the hitch. Other unavoidable options are your weight distribution gear and putting propane in the tanks; I mention these because a very high proportion of their weight is borne by the hitch only. Therefore I suspect the actual tongue weight of a ready to use 19' Bambi is 675-700# (actually weighing is the best thing to do; it may be higher!). This leaves you with a payload for passengers and everything else on board the Liberty of 450# or less. That is skimpy IMHO!

A word about Tow Capacity and GCWR (see Airstream FAQs for a primer): Tow capacity is weighed with just a driver aboard. You can nearly be guaranteed that you will never exceed tow capacity if you stay within a vehicle's payload capacity. Tow capacity should not be used to rationalize whether a vehicle is appropriate. An auto dealer with direct RV towing experience might know something about this topic and you should be cautious. Nobody knowledgeable would ever tell you to drive above Payload Capacity!

There are some mid-larger SUVs that could handle a Bambi. You would not have to go up to the Suburban-sized vehicles. The payload numbers should be in vehicle manuals and manufacturers' websites.

[CanoeStream]

I don't have a burr under my saddle but did think of one more thing. The 16-footer tongue weights are listed at 430#; real life might be around 600# or more. The Liberty would still be pushed to the max. That is a mighty small engine and the wheelbase doesn't do you any favors. You should have a larger tow vehicle with 3000# trailers!

Most state park camping we do will have electric hookups only. I have not yet camped at a site where I could be hooked to "city water" and a sewer hookup -- you'll see that more at commercial campgrounds. I'll use a campground's shower if I have the option. I hate to draw on my water tank and fill my grey water for showers (even of the "Navy" type) -- it makes it hard to get a 3-day weekend out of one tank fill. A family would only add to this capacity issue. So the shower tends to be used less. In my opinion the wet bath in the 16' would be a pain under any circumstance.

[Hol & Lols]

I'd like to see the interior of the new 2007. Sounds nice. Are there any pictures on line?

I'm probably in the minority here but I much prefer smaller rather than larger. I like the compact design and the ease of parking/storage. Last week I missed a turn off to a lovely winery and was able to do a u-turn and head back. I have the 16ft Quicksilver edition and have not filled up all the storage space yet. The dealer tried to talk me into a couple of 19ft. AS but I really wanted the 16ft. which happened to cost more than the 19ft. models available there. (Figures, lol)

I agree about the shower situation. It's not an issue at all. I spent 6 weeks traveling in a 16 footer and very rarely (if ever) used the shower. To me it's more for emergency or occasional use as the campground showers are usually available. In my AS the shower hose can also be used outside which is a plus for rinsing off feet or dogs etc. I love the wrap around windows.

I tow with a Jeep Grand Cherokee but it has the larger engine. Very smooth.

[CanoeStream]

Originally Posted by Hol & Lols

I'd like to see the interior of the new 2007. Sounds nice. Are there any pictures on line?

Dave Winick has been a contributer in the Forums under screen name dwinick. He did reply to a post from a few months back with the following URL: http://www.vintagetrailering.com/pro...0prototype.htm

You can see what Airstream posts at http://www.airstream.com/product_lin...ambi_home.html, click on 75th Anniversary Edition.

A number of pictures were published in Airstream Life magazine a couple issues ago.

[campadk]

Thanks Canoe stream and Hol & Lois,

We are considering trying to hold off on replacing our Liberty until next year. We might get in one or two camping trips by the time we get the Bambi before winter flys here in the north.

So we are wondering about options. I figure we could travel dry (no water/waste) and limit what we take to keep within reason. I'm gaining a good understanding of load capacities in relation to real world weights (stuff in trailer, passengers, gear etc.

What if we have a decent reese or hensley w/d hitch and stick to secondary roads (less speed), ie 45-50mph. Max towing would be 3 hours on fairly quiet roads (upstate NY). Some hills to deal with. This may even be one round trip as we do have a place we could leave the Bambi about 10 minutes from where we mainly camp currently.

Definately safety is a factor and we will either upgrade the tv prior to pulling the Bambi, or wait until next spring if $$$'s are an issue to start using it (uugh! Have Bambi no TV!).

I'll post some shots of the Dave Winick 75th Bambi we visited in CT the other day in a sec...

By the way there are two in stock at the dealer in CT and two in stock at the dealer in NJ. AS says the last ones to be produced (only 75 to be manufacturer) will be sometime in September.

[campadk]

So here are a few shots of the 2007 75th 19ft Bambi (Dave Winick)...

Here is one of the 75ths that JUST came in on the truck about 15 minutes ago!! Bit much maybe for our Liberty...



Roomy design! Dave Winick was looking to open up the 19ft space and did an excellent job of it! You'll notice the small sink by the bathroom is gone making more room for the kitchen galley. Now the fridge is over with the stove and kitchen sink instead of on the other side. This makes this Bambi much more open and inviting. You can't quite see it in this photo, however the dinette is slightly angled so it is easy to slide in and out of. Would have liked the panoramic window at the front, however we can deal with this. I gather Dave was trying to stay with the 'retro' look inside and out.



Kate checks out the convertable/combo bed/couch. Takes 5 seconds to convert it!



Notice the pull out above the lower storage space. Simply pull out to convert it to a bed. Storage area is very accessible unlike the 16ft Bambi.



Nice detail on the door!

[JimGolden]

I went inside several of these last March when I visited Jackson Center. The 75th anniversary model is a very nice trailer. I liked it a lot.

I also looked at the 16'. To me, I would spring for the extra three feet. The interior difference was significant. Both were built well though.

I was shocked at the price tag on that anniversary model though. That alone would drive me to a "lesser" model. If memory serves, it was around $60K. Seemed a lot to me for a 19 footer. Nice trailer though.

A Grand Cherokee with a HEMI should tow any of these nicely.

[AZstreamin]

It would look pretty sweet behind a Jeep Commander...with navigation..hmmm the possibilities...You could drive it all the way to Alaska. Have fun most important be safe.. buy a bigger rig to protect that beauty I love the wood and floors.

[campadk]

Originally Posted by JimGolden

I went inside several of these last March when I visited Jackson Center. The 75th anniversary model is a very nice trailer. I liked it a lot.

I also looked at the 16'. To me, I would spring for the extra three feet. The interior difference was significant. Both were built well though.

I was shocked at the price tag on that anniversary model though. That alone would drive me to a "lesser" model. If memory serves, it was around $60K. Seemed a lot to me for a 19 footer. Nice trailer though.

A Grand Cherokee with a HEMI should tow any of these nicely.

Don't let the MRSP scare you too much... ok maybe a LOT LOL. Its a lot of cash for a camper... Anyways you can get them for a LOT less than MRSP. You are definately paying for owning a unique/limited edition AS. The difference between it and a Safari 19ft is about $15K, less difference compared to the International. Since the 75th comes standard with many of the options available for the International, the difference for the '75th' isn't that out of wack. I'd say you are paying an additional $5K or so for its 'uniqueness' compared to a similarly configured International. If your style is more like the International than the retro look of the 75th I wouldn't bother. But if you like the style, couch/bed combo and openness, than the 75th might be your best choice.

Anyone interested in the 75th should check out David Winick's interview at http://www.thevap.com/content/view/84/82/

[2airishuman]

hi campadk and welcome to the forums.......

this thread is beginning to read more like a sales flash for a dealer with 2 of these on the lot......
than a prospective buyer, looking for imput.....

you mention that it comes standard with many of the options for an international........
LIKE WHAT?

a base internation is pretty nicely equipped and things like the audio/video upgrade are so over priced and under tech'd that it is usually wiser to aftermarket these items.....

as a new buyer it is easy to be swept up in the moment of a limited model....
like the quik silver or the 75th or the 50th wbcci and so on...

first a 19 is too much for the liberty......regardless of trim,
unless you want to consider an older unit.....
which is really the best optlon for new buyers...

second think floor plan AND how it will be used.....
the bed for example in a standard 16 international is bigger than the 19s...and the model pictured needs to have the bed made everytime it's used.....that gets old quick. i've been there.....

third think live-ability balanced by expected usage....
the bed is an issue, no lav sink is too if the dishes are dirty,
the bare walls have been considered by some to be harsh after a few days camping, and so on.......

also think about how long you'll keep it.
the depreciation is big for any new airstream but given the discount on these will be small, the early depreciation is gonna be larger imo........expecially once the new style wears off and a newer more retro/stylish line is out.....

i think the d.w. model is cool
and it's a great exercise for the direction of a new a/s thinking.....
that is how to simply tweak the interiors so as to appeal to different demographics, and how to do this as a way of freshn'ing a model/line and so on...

so if ya really want to touch toe into airstream'n
find a nice older argony, minuet, 6 meter, caravel or
other small light model that CAN be pulled with your liberty.....

then in a year or so when ya learn if airstreamn' really is your thing.....
up grade either the tv or the trailer or both, to meet your needs....

and rest assured there will be near new, used dw models still available and
at much less money......
or another new great limited model....

cheers
2air'

[campadk]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

hi campadk and welcome to the forums.......

this thread is beginning to read more like a sales flash for a dealer with 2 of these on the lot......
than a prospective buyer, looking for imput.....

LOL... well maybe to you. I'm tossing in a lot of our comparisons since we have done a lot of research in determining which model is 'us' and I figured others might be interested in our findings/experience. And as my wife says, I'm just super enthusiastic about the Bambi and AS. I certainly have benefited from the experience of others on this forum and am sure others looking at the Bambi's and options might be interested in what we have found. We CAMP not sell campers. See http://campadk.com/pjsnoozer/ and you might get the idea... and no we don't sell teardrop trailers either.

I agree on video/audio upgrades are more expense than going to Best Buy or similar, but those options are small potatoes when looking at the total price. Since the 75th seems to be coming out of the factory in the same configuration, this isn't really an issue we got into. I phoned airstream and they said they are basically all configured the same (we were hoping for a panoramic window in the front). The options I was refering to where spare tire, electric hitch jack etc

The 75th is definately aimed at those who like its style and design and yes, are willing to fork out a few more bucks (us reluctantly). Like you says its another take on the 19ft layout and style which is great, as more options satisfies more people.

The bed in the 16ft as you say is bigger and I agee and probably the most comfortable in the 16ft or 19ft. We are currently sleeping in a 4x10ft teardrop with a 46"x74" bed so either bed configuation in the 19ft is more than spacious to us. The bed does have to be make up IF you choose to make it into a couch during the day. Thats personal choice, we like it. Probably will stay make up as a bed some days, others as a couch (especially rainy days). At least converting it back to a couch each day is not necessary which is key.. that would have been bad. In David's podcast he said that one of the motivations to making the bed a bed/couch combo was to allow easier access to the bathroom (especially larger people), not just to make that area dual purpose. It does require storing the bedding somewhere however which will use up some storage space. My wife pictured in my previous post is flattered you thought she was a model by the way

Not sure about using the lavatory sink for dirty dishes... well thats not us anyways. If we had it we would use it for washing hands and teeth... although we can do that with using the other sink as long as the dishes aren't piling up. Its a small sacrific in our view to have only one sink in a small trailer. For that matter in our current camper we don't have a sink, fridge, washroom, dinette or even a table. LOL

The walls may look bear to some I supposed... others like us would like the openness... its personal preference. Like our home, which utilizes an open concept design.. which is great when you're dealing with limited space. I think opening up the Bambi was one of David's main motivations to his layout in the 75th and is a great option to the International version, for those who prefer it.

We plan on keeping this unit for 20+ years and not as an investment vehicle. We have been told by dealers that they hold their value... well maybe... at least more than any other trailer manufacturer.. its nice to know but in the end its not high on our decision making process, we just love the Bambi, particularly the 75th so I'm not thinking of it in those term. As far as getting into an AS and eventually moving up in size etc.. thats just isn't our thing. We are only 2 after all.

As far as which model to buy... like others have suggested to us (which we totally agree on), buy the trailer you want (your going to be using it a LONG time.. much longer than your tv), and then match it up with a tow vehicle. True we don't have the perfect match currently, and know we will have to replace the Jeep. I'm hoping we can defer that cost 'if' possible until next year though and get in one or two short hops out camping once we have the Bambi. We'll be researching trading up the Jeep in the meantime. Its hard to part with the Liberty though which we really enjoy.

You've made some great points 2air. Definately everyone has different styles, and wish lists for their perfect camper, and its great to read everyones opinions. I hope I am being helpful to anyone else looking into the Bambi's.
Appreciate your input and suggestions about the Jeep!

Cheers

[2airishuman]

hi campadk.......

well the link is interesting.......
but the snow skis look a little odd in that settting!

it's nice to read from someone so psyched for a model or for any airstream really...
and it reads like you've thought this out which is nice...

i kept my first a/s 25+ years so can relate to long term purchases...
and any bambi is volumes larger than a teardrop....
the dw model does come closest to the feel of that era....in a new unit.

also agree wholeheartedly that it's best to buy the unit that ya really really want, and upgrade the tv to match....

i like open spaces too and i'm not down on the aluminum skinned inside walls....just passing along that some folks have felt they were too hot or stark or accoustically harsh and collected some condensation....after a while....no personal experience....and looking at what you are upgrading from....well the airstream will be a big upgrade....

too bad the pt cruiser or that gm knock off aren't up to towing this much...
that'd be a nifty new/retro pair...or how about a vintage wagon or panel truck...

good luck with the purchase adventure......
and keep up posted and pix'd...

cheers
2air'

[flyfshr]

campadk ~

That is one sa-weet trailer! Winnick did a fantastic job of nailing the vintage look and feel. Looks like now you need to change your avatar 'cause I don't imagine you're still looking after that beauty. I wanna camp next to you.

Brad
FF

[spinyman]

Just two comments about the Winnick.Sit for a while in the bambi with the wraparound window then go back to the small windowed 19.For me, it was a deal breaker.On the other hand, I love the aluminum walls in my ccd.Would not consider the cloth walls.In any case, it's always a compromise.

[JimGolden]

Campadk,

I'm with ya buddy! If that's the one you like, then get it!

Life is too short to be camping in the wrong trailer. Get that 75th anniversary and have a blast!

See ya on the road!

[mbbrown55]

I am also interested in the 16' vs 19' CCD. I love the layout of the 16' CCD. With a young child aboard it's nice to be able to close the bedroom screen and give us and her some privacy. I also don't think the 19' corner bed is big enough for two tall people, and I like the increased light & air from the 16' wrap-around windows. But I love the Dave Winick 19' interior.

I have heard that Airstream will be coming out with new interiors soon for the CCD's.

Does anyone know what they will look like?

Does anyone think that it's possible to order a 16' CCD with a Winick interior?

[CanoeStream]

Welcome to the Forums, Marechal! The 19' Bambi corner bed size would be an issue for my wife and I. The Winick 19' goes retro by having that be a fold-up gaucho (couch), so there is the extra issue of having a valley down the middle of the bed. We have very good friends who prefer the 16-footer's double bed also but want a bit more space. Anyway, these friends discovered that the 20' Safari has the same bed with a floor plan they like. They have a Toyota Tundra -- an excellent pairing for this size Airstream. Something to consider anyway.

I have some recall that the limited run of Winick 19' trailers has just about run its course. Prior to this was the 16' Quicksilver limited run. Those were supposedly for the 2006 75th anniversary year. It's anybody's guess if their marketing department has other plans -- I'm sure gas prices will sustain interest in the shorter models. CCD changes? Interesting that you've heard something on this... Model year changeover is usually in the May-June period but Airstream doesn't seem to time every introduction to that time.

Dave Winick has his own custom shop but Airstream commissioned him and probably owns the rights to this specific Bambi design. Dave's website is http://www.vintagetrailering.com/home.htm

[campadk]

It appears the last run of the 75th is the end of September. Ours is #68 and is scheduled the first week or two in October.

All have been sold... but of course many of those are at dealers (Colonial has 3 for example).

Like the Quicksilver there will probably be a few units to be had in the spring/early summer 2007 and then thats it.

What will the next 'special' be?

[2airishuman]

hi campadk and others lusting over the 75th...

i was lucky enough to see 3 in progressive stages of construction recently...

the bosses suggested they were about 10 units from completing the run of 75...

and that they would not do another batch, like they did with the quicksilver...

50 became 100....as some of you may know....

anyway i'm sure you are waiting anxiously for your trailer...

it's just a bummer living so far north...

i'd want to go camping lots and right now....in one of these.

your photos and observations early in this thread are very accurate...

anyone who's not read dave's notes in post 7 of this thread go back now and read/view.
he has nailed it.

a couple of my thoughts...

the floorplan may be the best utilzation of a 19 footer yet....

it's subtly different from the 19 safari, 19 safari se, and 19 bambi ccd...

and the differences are all positive....

the angled dinette is more funtional and feels bigger.
removing the 2nd sink is a big plus and
adding the slide out/in section to the bed really does open the floor,
and make toilet/shower access better.
feels like more storage space too and better access to the storage.

so anyone doing a full remodel on small vintage units should steal this layout...no kidding.

the materials and workmanship are better than just about any other current a/s model...

the cabinetry is made outside the factory and fit/finish is great....

some trimming is done where furnishings meet skin/shell, but overall the final product is pretty tight.

the cloth used for dinette and sofa bed are retro durable giving the appearance of wool...it should hold up well.

the wood finish is too dark, imo by just a shade or 2. several lights need to be on, to offset this.
the veneered plywood is very nice but honestly the color reminds me too much of the walnut vinyl they used on my 70s model...
and it will only darken with usage and time.

the floor is genuine linoleum which is great but it is nearly black in color.

the counter tops area also linoleum again this is retro cool but the combination of the 3 surfaces (floor, wood, counters) is a really dark effect.

and how well does lino hold up as a food prep surface...i don't know.

the darkness is offset somewhat by the bright aluminum trim/edging and stainless surfaces
but lots of light is needed to make this balance work...natural or artifical..

so the shades need to be open and lots of lights turned on....can you say batteries?

so some larger front window or the full wrap as you note would really help with light...

in a bigger trailer this darkness would be amplified....and there are plans to do a larger unit with this 'nautical' styling...which is now the reference for this look...

the retro cool round door window is too small, which doesn't help as much with the open feel...unless the door is open.

there are several metal/stainless surfaces inside which give just a touch of the industrial look and feel.
any harsh sounds/hollowness these surfaces are prone to generate is reduced by wood filling...
it is amazing that with some cabinets 'metal over wood' that the total weight is less than other models of the same size...significantly.

many of the lower cabinet designs are virtually the same as vintage bambis or late 50s units...
this is really nice.
simple, solid, yet light and max space using wood but not thick dull oak....

i'm not sure the full metal interior skin ceiling will not be overly warm in warm weather...so keep this baby in the northern regions...

this unit gets marine grade plywood for the flooring which is great (only the 16s and 22s get the particle grade flooring now)

but the counters are also plywood under the linoleum...with metal trim/edges.
so here is an issue. water on the counters will run to the edges and the metal trim will channel that water into the plywood.
the edging isn't sealed. no one seemed to know if the counters were marine grade or not...so watch the counters closely.

the cabinetry is veneer on plywood. that's fine but many of the edges are unfinished...so i'd be concerned long term about darkening and splintering.
consider boiled linseed or some other protective finish for the woodwork...

the sofa is quick and easy to covert to a bed. the foam is nicely dense, but imo too thin for sleeping.
i had this same thickness foam for a goucho/bed and condensation under it and sleeping comfort were issues.
consider a 2-4 inch wool topper or thin futon like roll up for extra sleeping comfort....

i think you are right dave, despite the small size of this unit
the styling and floor plan will be better suited to longer trips and more camping, than the other 19s....

you've got a real winner!

can't wait to read about your delivery experience...
and first camping trip.

cheers 2air'