Why do some NOT want to join WBCCI?

[Wingeezer]

Originally Posted by Ultradog

Some people, actually a lot of them, have an inherent need to belong to something.
Something greater than themselves.
That's why there are so many clubs and groups in the world.
From the Moose to the Oddfellows, the Masons, a church, bowling club, Toast Masters, AA, Vet's Clubs, Hell's Angels, knitting clubs, and the like.
They even, when moving to a new city, make a point of becoming boosters for the home town team. They wear the uniforms and show the colors of their newly adopted place.
I think part of is related to the fact that there is safety in numbers or an ancient need to be a part of a tribe.
They find their place in a natural pecking order, a group where they feel they fit in.
I think it's pretty ancient actually. Part of a survival mentality.
But there are others too that just don't have a strong sense of self identity.
So to make themselves feel better they wear the colors and bang the drum of an organization that gives them "place".
Perhaps it's their lack of confidence or creativity that makes them need to follow the crowd.
Of course in my opinion, the need to join isn't Man's best attribute. In fact, I think the opposite is more likely true.
People with a strong sense of self, people who are are individuals have less of a need to join.
They are able and willing to have as much fun in life going it alone, wearing their own colors or uniforms and making their own rules and bylaws - for themselves, paying no heed to rules that are foisted upon them by others.
"Fitting in" is much less important to them than others.
I suppose it is just as well that there are two kinds and never the twain should meet.
For the people who, like myself, prefer solitude over crowds, clubs attract all those joiners, those little martinets with their bugles and blue berets and gets them off my back and out of my space.
And to those who value order and place, it helps them avoid an individual who's usually contemplatitive, mostly self satisfied, sometimes atrabilious, always ungregarious and keeps me from annoying them just by being different.

"Atrabilious," now there's a great new word for my vocabulary! I had to look it up even though I thought I had a decent mastery of language (despite being a retired engineer.)

Surely hope I ain't atrabilious!


Brian.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

"Atrabilious," now there's a great new word for my vocabulary! I had to look it up even though I thought I had a decent mastery of language (despite being a retired engineer.)

Ditto on all counts.

English is such a rich language, and so seldom used to its full potential anymore.

[cwf]

How maudlin these mortals be....

I noticed we AS owners benefit from some folks who "tribed" for the purpose of mere fellowship and advancement of all... How weak....

[sheriff1]

Originally Posted by cwf

How maudlin these mortals be....

I noticed we AS owners benefit from some folks who "tribed" for the purpose of mere fellowship and advancement of all... How weak....

And yet here you are "tribe" on a forum... Even weaker.


2015 F350 CC 4X4 6.7 Diesel
2010 27FB Silver Cloud "The Silver Spoon"

[AirBen]

We recently bought an airstream, are both pretty introverted, but excited to camp, and meet some people. It's cool, though, because after a few days of hanging out, we can slip back into solitude.

[aftermath]

Originally Posted by Ultradog

Some people, actually a lot of them, have an inherent need to belong to something.
Something greater than themselves.
That's why there are so many clubs and groups in the world.
From the Moose to the Oddfellows, the Masons, a church, bowling club, Toast Masters, AA, Vet's Clubs, Hell's Angels, knitting clubs, and the like.
They even, when moving to a new city, make a point of becoming boosters for the home town team. They wear the uniforms and show the colors of their newly adopted place.
I think part of is related to the fact that there is safety in numbers or an ancient need to be a part of a tribe.
They find their place in a natural pecking order, a group where they feel they fit in.
I think it's pretty ancient actually. Part of a survival mentality.
But there are others too that just don't have a strong sense of self identity.
So to make themselves feel better they wear the colors and bang the drum of an organization that gives them "place".
Perhaps it's their lack of confidence or creativity that makes them need to follow the crowd.
Of course in my opinion, the need to join isn't Man's best attribute. In fact, I think the opposite is more likely true.
People with a strong sense of self, people who are are individuals have less of a need to join.
They are able and willing to have as much fun in life going it alone, wearing their own colors or uniforms and making their own rules and bylaws - for themselves, paying no heed to rules that are foisted upon them by others.
"Fitting in" is much less important to them than others.
I suppose it is just as well that there are two kinds and never the twain should meet.
For the people who, like myself, prefer solitude over crowds, clubs attract all those joiners, those little martinets with their bugles and blue berets and gets them off my back and out of my space.
And to those who value order and place, it helps them avoid an individual who's usually contemplatitive, mostly self satisfied, sometimes atrabilious, always ungregarious and keeps me from annoying them just by being different.

This sums up my position quite nicely. Thanks Ultradog.

I "joined" the Airstream world in 2009 and was considering joining the WBCCI so I started researching. I read a few issues of the Blue Beret and scoured the forum and the web for news about the "club". I didn't like what I saw and liked what I read even less. Humans do have that pack mentality and I saw a lot of similarities between the WBCCI and a church. Special costumes, people with titles and positions of power and religious overtones at gatherings and meetings. Paying dues to be a member was one thing but then I read that there were additional charges when you wanted to attend a big rally. Those at the top of the leadership list did not have to pay these extra charges, just us lowly members.

I know, I know, not all the tribes out there are like that and yes, things have improved of late as I have been told but still, I am not a big fan of group think. Believe it or not, I am a pretty nice guy and I do enjoy the company of others. It is just that I don't like the notion of secret hand shakes, costumes and knowing the secret about Airstream time. Groups are great but there are always groups within the group and trying to figure out what your position is is not my idea of fun.

We attended the Albuquerque Balloon festival that was hosted by the 4Corners unit. They opened it up to any and all Airstream owners and we were treated nicely and there was no meeting that even closely resembled what I was expecting. A few years later we attended again but by this time the Big Cheese in the Big office (think Vatican) was having trouble with the way the 4Corners hosts were running things. I don't know the official outcome but I was told that in the future, spots were going to be limited for those "not in the club". This is what I was expecting in the beginning and this is why I will not join. I jumped through hoops all of my working career. I am done with that. If I lived closer to the 4 Corners area I would consider joining. Very nice people there with goals and expectations that match mine.

[xrvr]

So some who don't want to be in a club have their own rockdockings or whatever and first thing they do is invite anyone interested to attend? Huh? Is it because they want control of the situation? They can be the boss? Nothing wrong with wanting control, as long as those controlling realize that. Criticize a large club by forming your own small club informally. My opinion.

[Frank's Trailer Works]

How many times must this be rehashed? Over and over ad noisome...
It was being discussed 8 years ago. Many names change, some are still banging their heads on the wall.
Make sure you go to post #3 in that thread. It links a dozen even OLDER rehashes of this same CRAP.
I will tell you this. The biggest division in the Airstream community is the WBCCI. It does not unite Airstreamers, it divides them and this and hundreds of other threads are a clear example of how.

[xrvr]

The people who generally create the discord are the ones mistreated years ago. I understand and the feelings are not misplaced. As a former member and now outsider I am concerned that so many of the old ideals are still present in the club. People like to hang on to old times, but must be realistic as to the future. Rules can be modified to conform to newer ideas. This is not the U.S. Constitution here, it's an AS club. Good luck to those reformers.

[GettinAway]

This is interesting. We don't get to camp nearly as much as I'd like, so when we do, I plan it, and we take a week here or there. (I get a lot of great information on where to camp from this forum.)
I guess I'm selfish. I'm not taking one of my weeks out camping with a group. Maybe I'm too much of an introvert.
I've always been interested in the club, and figured we would join when we retired. Just four more years.. I glanced back at the other thread from 07, I think, that covered much if the same info. I have to admit, if I join, I won't be seeking a leadership position, and I won't care who is allowed to attend or not. We will attend a rally and see how we like it.
I do think the numbers on the trailers are cool though. I've always felt like I was a bit on the outside, because we haven't participated. ;-)

[AtomicNo13]

If you're a "need to be a member if a club" kind of person then you'll want to join....
If you're not a "need to be a member of a club" kind of person then you'll most likely not join a club. It's a personal decision only you can make. If you're unsure, try it for a season and see if its a good fit!

You certainly don't have to join if you own an Airstream. I was a member for nearly 30 years, had varying amounts of fun. Now that I'm no longer a member, I find myself doing more now that I'm a full timer, than I ever did with the WBCCI!
I find fun and adventure wherever I am, don't need group activities to enjoy my Airstreams or travel!

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by avionstream

So some who don't want to be in a club have their own rockdockings or whatever and first thing they do is invite anyone interested to attend? Huh? Is it because they want control of the situation? They can be the boss? Nothing wrong with wanting control, as long as those controlling realize that. Criticize a large club by forming your own small club informally. My opinion.

With all due respect, avionstream, I must come to limited defense of the Eklunds....altho Ray is capable of speaking for himself, and I'm sure will.

The rockdocking adventure in July drew many more interested than Ray expected, and was also the first time they had met anyone on these Forums.

They are not hunter-gatherers of fellow Airstreamers with which to camp, nor anyone with which to camp, nor creating a private club.....but made a decision to offer to share with interested Forums members some specific knowledge and a few remote areas they had discovered and loved.

I was there, and had the pleasure of getting to know these two a bit.


Maggie

[Inland RV Center, In]

After almost 30 years, I declined to renew my membership.

It appears that the folks at the top of the ladder, make decisions that all to many members disagree with, based on the facts of years of improper financial management.

If the wheels like it, then so be it. If the wheels did not like it, in spite of member feedbacks, it was done anyways.

Proper management of any club, basically starts with pleasing the majority of it's members.

That, unfortunately, was the case all to many times, with the biggest being failure to properly manage the groups funds. Those funds were to support the members at large, and not the top of the management.

Rallies, with a guaranteed poor turn out, that could have been cancelled, were not. The bottom line result was poor member attendance, but favorable management attendance. That, in itself, caused a loss of substantial funds.

I speak for myself, in that I do not wish to be supportive of any group that cares for the managers, and disregards the member feedback, especially when it comes to spending money.

Whose money??? The members, not the wheels.

Yes, times can be tough for any club, but when financial problems starring in one's face, get kicked to the curb, with zero attempts to correct, then I am sorry, but I choose not to be supportive of it.

I will continue to be an active part and supporter of the Corona animal shelter, the Arizona Memorial and the Midway aircraft carrier. They all show superior financial and administrative management, and have for many years.

Any club grows in time, as WBCCI did for many years, and then, suddenly went south.

It was, over many years, a very good place to be a part of a very nice rally. and then, sadly, went BOOM.

Perhaps someday, they will strive to bring back the goodies, and shelf the baddies.

Andy

[xrvr]

I stand by my statements. my opinions.

[xrvr]

I probably enjoy rays posts more than most. He speaks from experience and adventure. I only commented on an observation, not criticizing. Wanting to do what one wants, when one wants to is controlling the situation, that's not necessarily bad. Sorry if I offended.

[NCMEDIC]

As a lowly prospective owner, the camaraderie of the rallies and caravans is one of the chief reasons we're interested in an AS. Let's face it, from a technical aspect they are NOT "top of the line". Whether or not we join WBCCI remains to be seen, and I find these discussions illuminating, but the "social aspect" of AS ownership is a huge draw for us.




Warren Smathers

Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by avionstream

I stand by my statements. my opinions.

Of course, and I would do the same.

I was not in the slightest bit offended, just clarifying a bit, from my slightly informed perspective.


Maggie

[Ray Eklund]

Originally Posted by avionstream

I probably enjoy rays posts more than most. He speaks from experience and adventure. I only commented on an observation, not criticizing. Wanting to do what one wants, when one wants to is controlling the situation, that's not necessarily bad. Sorry if I offended.

******

Thank you Maggie for expressing your opinion.

I have no animosity towards Avionstream for comments from an earlier post. I am sure avionstream has never put in the many days and financial investment required of me, bringing a group of Airstream owners out of their comfort zone. This I did on my time and my expense at no cost to anyone, other than taking care of their own expenses.

I am doubtful if any other Airstream owner has made a similar effort, unless there was a profit to be made. This trip was a spontaneous Thread, expecting three or four individuals even finding this remotely interesting at best.

What I discovered even on this "voluntary adventure", those attending WANTED organization and someone to be the responsible "leader". My wife even purchased "adhesive name tags" so everyone could remember names of people not knowing one another. The intent was anyone could come and go at will. Stay as long as you wanted or depart if nothing was appealing.

From this experience, I now understand how complicated WBCCI events can develop and the cost to attend does not cover the time given up by individuals needed to keep everything running smoothly.

If something went wrong, I had to get it back on track. If there were a problem, I had to intervene. If something changed, I had to make it work. If it began to rain, I had to get the word out to get the h**l out before we get stuck in the back country. Not the usual routine when I do this automatically when off the grid, by ourselves.

Surprisingly... it all worked out among individuals of all experience levels, making this such an enjoyable venture. Other than some dog issues... there were as many dogs running loose in the forest as people. Dogs running loose in the forest and at the campsite was a memorable experience for dog and owner alike. Maggie's dog, Lily, became everyone's friend. Dog and human alike.

This was a very simple trip for my wife and I. With a group, it was much more complicated. Specific times needed to be kept. Ride sharing for those who wanted to offer, had to be taken care of. Keeping individuals from getting lost was always in the back of my mind. Being responsible, without getting too Drill Instructor, was required. (Those of you going through Boot Camp understand what I mean about DI's.) Sometimes decisions had to be made at the spur of the moment. All of this sure brought back my military experiences of keeping things running smoothly.

[Ray Eklund]

This will, if ever coming to be an actual event, become a Non Rally Event of Boondocking central and northwest Wyoming.

Possibly putting together at the end of 2015 and early 2016, I had been asked to open up a basket of campsites for a Wyoming Experience. This adventure is not sponsored by anyone, any organization or even suggested to be pleasant for most Airstream or wheeled camping enthusiasts.

One late afternoon during the Quemado, NM Boondocking trip, several of us sat down and laid pennies on a Wyoming map for a 7 to 10 day route. Brent and Richard are names that come to mind, but they have an option to deny even being in attendance.

The trip, to be polite, would begin at Laramie, Wyoming at the Territorial Prison parking lot and end up somewhere near Pinedale, Wyoming into the Red Desert region. Prison is a good place to stop and visit just to get a introduction of what could be awaiting at other campsites.

People can drop off toward the Grand Tetons and Yellowstone for the bland tourist option of the trip. I prefer to be on the non tourist route, no crowds and bear are not part of the public petting option in the parks.

Since this would be a terrible comparison to a professional WBCCI tour, this will be posted under Boondocking, Forum permitting. First, it has to be totally made up from scratch but appear to be well thought out, which it could... or may not be at all.

There is no limit of the number of dogs. Space in some areas may be limited for trailers, unless fitting in tightly from time to time is not too offensive. If you want to pay the Wyoming fishing license for daily or an annual permit... you are in the "small less than 14" trout streams" with plenty of State Fish Hatchery fish that are easy to catch and release if you prefer.

You will get wet from crossing streams. You will, from the last two years of traveling, discover rain is possible. You will need to be flexible for whatever might happen and detours found to be worth visiting. This is off the grid for the most part. On the Grid camping will be an accident at best. You will survive. If not, our condolence to surviving family members who took directions, seriously.

This is to avoid the "negativity" some have said this thread expresses. Which is far from the truth... or at least considering the political atmosphere this is as good as it can get. This is a Wally Byam event. Not a facsimile at a RV Park grounds with full hookups.

Wally Byam traveled to explore, not reside at a location, catered food and mixed drinks as the main event. This is a WBRD... Wally Byam Rock Docking true adventure. Wally Byam did not telephone ahead to make it pretty and comfortable ahead for camp.

So, off the deep end I go again. We still have a lot of blank name tags to offer. I guarantee that you will experience an adventure to places that only highly paid outfitters would attempt. If you want to complain, there is no department of complaints. You get what you are paying for.

If I never do this again... I should have learned from my first attempt. Had the Quemado, NM Boondocking adventure not been so much fun, I would not even consider Wyoming to break in some new faces and trailers. The information packet will be about the dimensions of a postage stamp. What you will get? Whatever Wyoming and a former resident has plans for you to regret.... attending.

[John&Vicki]

I am not remotely interested in WBBCI's leadership or beauracracy. From a comfortable distance it all seems very similar to most large organizations. I joined in order to become involved with the Oregon Unit and their activities - which I have found to be great fun. Similar to Ray's outing, folks on the ground work really hard to keep things running smoothly and I tip my hat to them.

Cheers,
John