Propane Transfer

[juel]

Men!

[purman]

I bought the little adaptor for my small camp propane tanks... So I need to invert the big tank to fill the little one??? won't the propane come out if it is right side up?? I haven't tried filling one yet....

Tried shooting one..Just hissed... disappointment.... Tried shooting a big one that was empty... even a 9mm wouldn't go through it.. not made of aluminum though... old style, it was junk...

I want to fill the small ones so I don't have to keep buying them,, Seems such a waste.....

[Fyrzowt]

even a 9mm wouldn't go through it..

Use a caliber that starts at least with a 4...

won't the propane come out if it is right side up??

By inverting the tank, you transfer the propane in liquid form. Then as you use the appliances, the liquid converts to the gas you are burning. You wouldn't be able to transfer enough propane in the gas state to be effective.

[purman]

Thanks I will try that...

30-06 goes through, Need to try the 30-30....

[eubank]

As a licensed person, I can't and won't recommend refilling a cylinder that is marked "no refill." That said, if you decide to do this, a little physics is needed:

1. Propane is heavier than air, so you have to invert the donor cylinder.

2. The propane that comes out of the valve under normal use is gaseous, not liquid. It is the result of the liquid propane inside the bottle boiling (that is, conversion from liquid to gaseous state).

3. Boiling points for propane (and for just about anything else you can imagine) are subject to atmospheric pressure (usually just elevation) and to ambient temperature.

4. The air above the propane inside the cylinder is also subject expansion with elevation/temperature and can, under certain cirmstanances, exert so much pressure down on the propane in the cylinder that the boiling point of the propane is adversely affected. In such a case, it is necessary to vent the excess air pressure. Please allow a propane filler that you trust to do this.

5. Always carry your propane cylinder, especially a newly filled one, in an upright position, and have it open to air (not in an enclosed vehicle, for example). This is so because propane can expand greatly with just a little heating, and propane can be released into the atmosphere via the relief valve as a result. A full propane cylinder on its side in an enclosed vehicle is a recipe for a very unwelcome event.


Lynn

Originally Posted by purman

I bought the little adaptor for my small camp propane tanks... So I need to invert the big tank to fill the little one??? won't the propane come out if it is right side up?? I haven't tried filling one yet....

Tried shooting one..Just hissed... disappointment.... Tried shooting a big one that was empty... even a 9mm wouldn't go through it.. not made of aluminum though... old style, it was junk...

I want to fill the small ones so I don't have to keep buying them,, Seems such a waste.....

[purman]

The propane guy down the road hooks it up, turns a screw, has it on the scale, when it's full turns the screw and shuts the valve... My 2.5 year old could do that..... Not that I would stand near him.....HA.

I will give one a try to see what happens....Later.... If you don't see me on here for a while you know it went bad.....

[doorgunner]

purman- put the small EMPTY cylinder in the fridge for 15 minutes, then remove it a screw it onto the adaptor most rickey tickey. Invert the donor cylinder and let 60 seconds pass. Upright the cylinder and shut the valve immediately, Unscrew the camp cylinder. It helps to weigh the cylinder when empty. FYI the small cylinders I have weigh 14.5 oz. empty.
So here's the pics.

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by doorgunner

... my finely eguipped 86 Excella has a readout inside the trailer that is connected to the sending units in the tanks- imagine that!

I have an 85 Excella with the readout panel inside, but the valves on the tanks have been changed. Now the gauge for the propane tanks doesn't work because there is nothing to hook it up to on the tanks. Does anyone know if these sending units are available on the new style valve?

[eubank]

Doorgunner, do your original valves have any kind of manufacturer's markings on them? Also, could you post a couple of closer-up pics of the original valves with integrated sending units?
Thanks,

Lynn

[doorgunner]

inner control panel, scale and close up of italian valve on worthington tank

[doorgunner]

If you just hook up the tanks there is an immediate equalization of pressure, hardly any transfer of lp.
For transfer to happen you need to have a change in pressure, 2 changes works better.
one tank goes in the direct sun (donor tank) the other tank in the shade or cooled somehow. The greater the temp change the faster the transfer happens.Keep in mind we are working majic here. gas to fluid, and back and forth.condensation, etc
Here are some #'s I got from the propane institute.
First # outside temp/Vapor pressure PSI.
20F/42PSI--30F/53PSI--40F/65PSI--50F/78PSI--60F/93PSI--70F/110PSI--
80F/128PSI--90F/150PSI--100F/177PSI--110F/204PSI
Are you pickin up what I'm puttin down??
If you don't "get "this or are the kind of person that can get both their hands caught in a vise then PLEASE forget all about this thread.

[ArtStream]

Fascinating

[Ike T]

Originally Posted by ArtStream

Fascinating

Hmm.. I wonder if you put Mr. Spock in the sun, flipped him upside down, put someone in the shade upright, wrapped them in a cold towel, and put the Vulcan Mind Meld on them...........

[ArtStream]

Would the person standing upright turn into Mr. Spock. Is that the question?

[Shacksman]

Originally Posted by doorgunner

So um a well canadiens aren't smart enough to refill cylinders? I hope this to be a isolated incident- Shack- as I like the "Great White North". You do a lot of "diving" at the dump?
DG

I was the Canadian showing the operator in New York how to fill the tank.
And yes, you wouldn't believe what people toss out at the dump. I got an up to date propane tank with OPD valve there.

[Tim Can]

Originally Posted by doorgunner

For transfer to happen you need to have a change in pressure, 2 changes works better.
one tank goes in the direct sun (donor tank) the other tank in the shade or cooled somehow. The greater the temp change the faster the transfer happens.

Which one goes in the Sun, again? Ooops!

[Ike T]

Originally Posted by ArtStream

Would the person standing upright turn into Mr. Spock. Is that the question?

Seems "logical".

[doorgunner]

You guys are spending way too much time in the "Holodeck". Come back to reality!
So when those of you nay sayers are out of selenium crystals and come begging at my door for some--- guess what. Scotty's on break right now.

[Wabbiteer]

Don't get caught transporting a refilled 'disposable' cylinder. DOT takes serious actions AFTER the fact if an incident occurs.

Also... indulge me a bit of story telling?

Fifteen below Zero. One dry-walled room in a steel shed. 11pm Friday night after a long week and a 120 mile drive to the country property.

Need to light fire ASAP, Pot-Belly coal stove. Figure to use propane torch easiest short cut. Find kit, assemble torch, lay kindling bed and wood fire in hopes to start huge-chunk coal fire from the ton of coal I knew was frozen into rock hard mass on north side of steel building. Fire lit.

Go outside to get coal, obtain precious few huge chunks, boogie back inside (leaving door open with hands full) and break a chunk into smaller ones, place in wood fire, add more wood, put large chunks in. Turn and pick-up torch, unscrew torch head toward reassembling kit box for next time.

Valve fails in cold. Five-foot plume of propane rocketing out of cylinder EIGHTEEN inches from roaring coal stove. Hail-Mary spastic backwards sidearm toss while flinching moved cylinder rocketing towards door. Cylinder finds dark spot twenty feet away at far end of room and disappears into the night. Follow cylinder out door. Freeze for five minutes waiting for building to go boom.

Not worth playing with disposable cylinders, the seals are made for only a few uses. Yes sure, the cold amplified the hazard, but who is to say if it could not happen again on a nice sunny day at a camp spot turned into a picnic for ophans hosted by nuns.

Get a 5-pound or 11-pound mini-cylinder with internal needle valve and the usual style fittings.

[64airstream]

Doorgunner,

After all the kidding is done, I can appreciate what you did. You had a problem. Technical solutions such as a like kind instrumented valve replacement - not available. Finding someone capable AND willing to fill the existing tanks - not available. Finding a way to to do it yourself - priceless. Height difference in the presence of gravity, pressure difference in a closed system, and temperature difference to maintain the pressure difference are all simple and consistent laws of physics applicable to moving liquid from one location to another. I also appreciate your willingness to share it with us (whether believers or not). The next time I'm looking to have automatic weapons fired from my side door, you're the kind of gunner I'm looking for. The kind that will find a way to get the job done.

Roy