Loose gas lines

[Mrwaterway]

On the underside of my 1972 Ambassador 29, have several detached and broken copper line connectors. The lines do not leak and the corroded fitting connectors are still usable. My question is-what is the best way to reconnect to the underside? Should I re-drill or try and reuse the old holes? I am sure others have had similar problems

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Mrwaterway

On the underside of my 1972 Ambassador 29, have several detached and broken copper line connectors. The lines do not leak and the corroded fitting connectors are still usable. My question is-what is the best way to reconnect to the underside? Should I re-drill or try and reuse the old holes? I am sure others have had similar problems

The cause?

Vibration and lots of it.

The direct cause?

Lack of proper running gear balance coupled with axles that have rubber rods that have given out.

All torsion axles have rubber rods, and they will all fail in due time.

However, 74 and older Airstream axles, used rubber rods that were later determined to not have the correct composition of raw materials.

Usually, but not always, you can use the same holes in the underbelly. The underbelly was usually held in place with 1/8 inch pop rivets. When correcting the underbelly issues, use 3/16 inch "large head" pop rivets. They cost a little more, but they do a superior and longer lasting job.

Check the LPG fittings while under pressure, with liquid soap, to make sure that the system is leak free.

Old brass fittings, have a habit of cracking, which causes small LPG leaks.

Andy

[silverleeper]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

The underbelly was usually held in place with 1/8 inch pop rivets. When correcting the underbelly issues, use 3/16 inch "large head" pop rivets. They cost a little more, but they do a superior and longer lasting job.

Check the LPG fittings while under pressure, with liquid soap, to make sure that the system is leak free.

Old brass fittings, have a habit of cracking, which causes small LPG leaks.

Andy

You can see an example of the rivet here.Large Flange Rivets. I can find them at my local Home | Fastenal. Maybe you have one local.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by silverleeper

You can see an example of the rivet here.Large Flange Rivets. I can find them at my local Home | Fastenal. Maybe you have one local.

Hardware stores, Home Depot's, and the like, all have the larger head 3/16 inch pop rivets.

Be sure to use "all aluminum" rivets.

Andy

[silverleeper]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Hardware stores, Home Depot's, and the like, all have the larger head 3/16 inch pop rivets.

Be sure to use "all aluminum" rivets.

Andy

Andy can you tell me what hardware stores carry the large head rivets. I have searched and would love to find an convenient place to find the large head rivets.
Home Depot or Lowes or Ace or True Value does not carry them in stock. They do carry regular rivets.

Fastenal is the only place I have found that you can buy them over the counter. Only get aluminum shank not steel shank.

[Kevin245]

Originally Posted by silverleeper

Andy can you tell me what hardware stores carry the large head rivets. I have searched and would love to find an convenient place to find the large head rivets.
Home Depot or Lowes or Ace or True Value does not carry them in stock. They do carry regular rivets.

Fastenal is the only place I have found that you can buy them over the counter. Only get aluminum shank not steel shank.

Hey Lee,

I haven't had any luck finding them at the big box hardware stores around here either. I usually order mine from McMaster-Carr or grab them from the Fastenal store too.

Kevin

[wahoonc]

I would consider replumbing if not right away, in the near future, those lines are almost 40 years old and have been exposed to the weather and all kinds of stuff tossed up from the road.

The big headed rivets are available from any industrial fastener supply, Fastenal is a good example. I bought mine from Tidewater Fasteners in Va Bch. Look around, I have yet to hit a decent sized town that doesn't have a local fastener source.

Aaron

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by silverleeper

Only get aluminum shank not steel shank.

Aluminum shank (body) "and" aluminum pin.

No steel of any kind.

Andy

[Mrwaterway]

Folks,
I'll clean up the underside and get as much corrosion off as possible and then go with the larger rivet. Looking at "patching" some small squares of aluminum in areas that are corroded, but have not looked at attaching the "patch" with anything other than the smallest aluminum rivet-then go with the big pop rivet for the rubber lined barcket.
ANDY-since I have a 1972 axle on my Ambassador, is it possible that the torsion action could still actually work? I did haul it over 1500 miles recently and am not certain the copper line bracket failure wasn't a result of age rather than trailer "bounce". Would shock replacement without new axles make sense?
Still no leaks using the sudsy water treatment on the lines. I do not inderstand the "T" here and the "T" there. It would seem to make sense to keep all of these lines along one secure area rather than floating them everywhere-I actually have one under the axle that is of concern as it would seem to unduly wear while underway.

Getting ready for some dirt in the eye work!

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Mrwaterway

Folks,

ANDY-since I have a 1972 axle on my Ambassador, is it possible that the torsion action could still actually work? I did haul it over 1500 miles recently and am not certain the copper line bracket failure wasn't a result of age rather than trailer "bounce". Would shock replacement without new axles make sense?

Yes, it's possible.

Best thing to do is check it out yourself, which is easy to do. No tools required.

Read the article about torsion axles, in the Airstream Central site.

Then, what you see, is what you have.

Andy

[Ganglin]

On ours - can't speak for yours - the main cause of the rivets coming out is the galvanic reaction between the steel bracket and the belly skin. You can see that in the powdery metal decay under the bracket and at the rivet hole. That weakens the belly skin and the rivet pulls through. The skin of the belly just away from the bracket/rivet is still solid and in good condition for the age.

I have a couple popped loose. IF we use the metal brackets again we'll place a plastic fender washer between the bracket and skin - then use the larger head rivets. Another option is to back the bracket with a strip of shower pan liner if you have any laying around - anything inert that will separate the metals and not readily rot away....

[wahoonc]

Originally Posted by Mrwaterway

Folks,
I'll clean up the underside and get as much corrosion off as possible and then go with the larger rivet. Looking at "patching" some small squares of aluminum in areas that are corroded, but have not looked at attaching the "patch" with anything other than the smallest aluminum rivet-then go with the big pop rivet for the rubber lined barcket.
ANDY-since I have a 1972 axle on my Ambassador, is it possible that the torsion action could still actually work? I did haul it over 1500 miles recently and am not certain the copper line bracket failure wasn't a result of age rather than trailer "bounce". Would shock replacement without new axles make sense?
Still no leaks using the sudsy water treatment on the lines. I do not inderstand the "T" here and the "T" there. It would seem to make sense to keep all of these lines along one secure area rather than floating them everywhere-I actually have one under the axle that is of concern as it would seem to unduly wear while underway.

Getting ready for some dirt in the eye work!

Are those tees or are they shut off valves? IIRC on the 70's vintage Airstreams the shut off valves are on the underside of the trailer, you have one for each appliance. There are also different sizes of lines.

Hopefully it will stay leak free for you. I had a couple that pinholed shortly after I got my 75, so a complete replacement was warranted. My unit also spent a fair amount of time at the coast along at a beach front campground.

Aaron

[DavidsonOverlander]

Originally Posted by wahoonc

I had a couple that pinholed shortly after I got my 75, so a complete replacement was warranted.
Aaron

What kind of copper tubing should be used for propane lines?
Are there special fittings?
Do compression fittings have to be used, or could the connections be soldered?
I'm replacing the whole lot on the Sovereign.

Thanks,

Grant

[wkerfoot]

Originally Posted by Ganglin

On ours - can't speak for yours - the main cause of the rivets coming out is the galvanic reaction between the steel bracket and the belly skin. You can see that in the powdery metal decay under the bracket and at the rivet hole. That weakens the belly skin and the rivet pulls through. The skin of the belly just away from the bracket/rivet is still solid and in good condition for the age.

I have a couple popped loose. IF we use the metal brackets again we'll place a plastic fender washer between the bracket and skin - then use the larger head rivets. Another option is to back the bracket with a strip of shower pan liner if you have any laying around - anything inert that will separate the metals and not readily rot away....

Why not use a strip of aluminum for the bracket with a piece of rubber against the line?

Bill

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by DavidsonOverlander

What kind of copper tubing should be used for propane lines?
Are there special fittings?
Do compression fittings have to be used, or could the connections be soldered?
I'm replacing the whole lot on the Sovereign.

Thanks,

Grant

Soft copper tubing is fine.

Compression fittings for LPG lines should "NEVER" be used.

Flare type brass fittings are always used for the LPG lines.

And

[silverleeper]

Originally Posted by Mrwaterway

Folks,

ANDY-since I have a 1972 axle on my Ambassador, is it possible that the torsion action could still actually work?

This is an article from Airstream.com on axles take a look here. http://service.airstream.com/files/l...22708290a0.pdf

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by silverleeper

This is an article from Airstream.com on axles take a look here. http://service.airstream.com/files/l...22708290a0.pdf

Lee.

I wrote the vast majority of that article.

Airstream modified that article, adding to the errors that was in the original article.

As an example, the very last paragraph, is grossly incorrect, which I did not write.

Airstream has been advised of these errors, and the incorrect paragraph, and will have the entire article removed, corrected, and then republished.

I personally advised Airstream of the problems and they assure me that it would be corrected, but would take a while to accomplish that.

Since that article is still in their web site, I will ask them to remove it, until the necessary corrections have been made.

I suggest that links to that article not be made again, until the corrections have been made.

Further, Airstream did not ask me if they could copy what I wrote, which is another issue.

Andy

[Mrwaterway]

Originally Posted by wkerfoot

Why not use a strip of aluminum for the bracket with a piece of rubber against the line?

Bill

Good idea, I'll mess around and come up with a solution-right or wrong. Galvanic corrosion makes sense as the culprit WHICH I thought had a lot to do with electrical current-(as in Marinas), so the inert rubber or other object makes sense. The older Spartans keep all their propane lines inside-more dangerous perhaps, but less vulnerable. Each of my propane appliances have seperate T-valves-(cut-off), this includes the furnace, Dometic Fridge and the Hot water heater. The copper is old and swollen, but heavy duty. I will try and show my work with a picture or two-Thanks for all the sensible help suggestions.