Heat

[Ahroc]

Heat

I want to keep this thread about Heating. And will post my various heat related projects here.

My Airstream, 2003 Safari 25ss, small front window, mouse fur walls, vinyl ceiling. So any data I provide is about this Airstream, which I live in full time.

I went through the 2021 Oregon Ice storm, cold, without power, without heat, for a few days. My furnace blower depleted my batteries quickly. I wasn't ignorant, just unprepared. So since then being a little more prepared has been a priority.

Current project, MrHeater Buddy MH9BX. These don't require any power to heat. They are listed for indoor use. They require some cross ventilation as per the instruction manual. They are sensitive to propane contaminants and an inline filter should be used if using a hose. They require (high pressure) propane as they have a regulator built in. You can't attach them on the downstream side of the typical RV regulator. They don't have a thermostat, just low & high settings, so you don't want too big a heater unless you want to constantly fiddle with it. They will use considerably less propane than the built in furnace.

I tapped a (high pressure, they are different) quick disconnect between my 40# tank and regulator. It can only pull propane from this tank, no automatic switch-over. A 20-ft high pressure stainless hose was Panduit’ed to the existing propane line (not permanent). I bored hole in the floor, next to the entrance, next to the stove cabinet, and slid a 3” ABS pipe through the floor, through the underbelly, and capped it with a plumbing floor drain. This provides a spot for the hose and also allows for some of the required ventilation. I installed a CO detector at each end of the Airstream and have a portable one next to me on the bed, 3-total. My indoor thermometer is about 3’ off the floor on the same end of the Airstream as the heater, the back end is cooler. I use the 3” floor hole for a ventilation point and crack the roof vent about an inch on the other end of the Airstream. I've slept a few nights with the heater running. I know... there are lots of people who wouldn't.

3/16/2021, 4:38am, MrHeater on low, 68-deg inside, 36-deg outside, 32-deg gain. On high 7:01am, 74-deg inside, 33-deg outside, 41-deg gain.
3/17/2021, 5:50am, MrHeater on low, 70-deg inside, 34-deg outside, 36-deg gain. On high 6:58am, 77-deg inside, 35-deg outside, 42-deg gain.
So, on low (32-36)-deg gain from outside temperature, on high (41-42)-deg gain from outside temperature.
This is real life data, I find it interesting that low is not 1/2 of high as MrHeater specifies.

I'm actually pretty happy with the heater, it's a comfortable heat, there is a slight noticeable smell when you've been outside and step inside. Moisture hasn't been a problem for me but I run a small dehumidifier constantly.

I purchased a Camco Olympian Wave-6, that I intend to install permanently on the stove cabinet next to the entrance and will post when that is complete. I intend to use the MrHeater as a booster when it gets REALLY cold.

Happy Travels!

The hose through the underbelly pic is upside down.

[kidjedi]

I have the Mr. Heater that accommodates two 1lb. canisters or a quick connect hose. It can work on a low pressure line (mine is tee'd at the fridge). Mine has three settings and puts out an insane amount of heat on high. My 25 ft. trailer is super-insulated, and I have spent many a sub-zero night in the trailer using only this heater on low. I don't have to worry much about humidity in CO (it's never been an issue in the trailer). There is definitely an odor when using this heater, and even with the vent cracked, on several occasions I have turned it off because of a head ache. It has never set off the CO2 detector or propane detector. I ended up modding mine by removing the plastic housing (too bulky) and building a heavy duty aluminum stand that gets it about a foot higher, because I got sick of the smell of burnt dog hair and burnt dog bed. ;-)

[Ahroc]

Hi kidjedi
How about a couple of pics of your aluminum stand .

Update
I've been using the 9k Buddy a lot in the evenings when I get home from work. I really like the heat, warms up my older bones. My oem furnace works fine but I prefer the heat from the Buddy, quieter, nicer heat, orange glow is not quite a fireplace but it still provides a nice ambiance. I've slept with it on for several nights. I have (4) CO detectors now, one is considered a high sensitivity unit. None of the CO detectors has ever alarmed or even displayed a reading. I always keep a little ventilation on each end of the trailer, for cross flow. On the low setting the ceramic plate obviously gets dimmer, I tend to believe it's not as efficient a burn, more CO?, more headaches?, more smell?, assumptions on my part. So I avoid using it on the low setting.
Happy Travles!

[kidjedi]

Originally Posted by Ahroc

Hi kidjedi
How about a couple of pics of your aluminum stand .

Your wish is my command...

[Ahroc]

Kovea Cupid KGH-1203
As Bob Wells says... Don't do this! it will kill you!!
This is only for your entertainment!
I have (4) CO detectors in my Airstream, one is supposedly high sensitivity. And I always keep two points of cross ventilation.
Ok... Poking around the web I found this cute little Butane heater. It's about 1/3 the size of a 9k Buddy heater. I actually purchased it for my F250 canopy but have been playing with it. I purchased it thru eBay directly from Korea for about $90. I can't read the directions . As far as I can tell there are NO built in safeties, no oxygen depletion sensor, no tip over safety. But still I really like it. I've spent quit a bit of energy adapting it to propane. Butane bottle pressure is quite a bit less than Propane bottle pressure, but still quite a bit higher than normal regulated Propane pressure. My Propane hose coming out of the floor is direct bottle pressure. Basically in playing, I purchased a couple of regulators of different pressure outputs. As you can see in the pic's the 30-PSI output works. The MrHeater filter does two things, a) it filters, b) it's about the same diameter as the Butane bottle so it helps support the adapter assembly inside the heater. I also hand checked the temperature in the ( bottle ) hole, it gets very warm but not scorching hot. I have a high sensitivity Propane leak-detector that will light up if you fart within 4-ft of it, and I've checked all the connections several times. Anyhow, at night, after the sun has been down a couple of hours, I'm getting about a 19-deg F temperature gain in the Airstream. So if its 55-deg outside, its around 74-deg inside. Just about perfect for moderate temperatures. The MrHeater 9k is really too hot for moderate outside temperatures. I really like the Cupid for these moderately cool outside evenings.
Happy Travels!

[Ahroc]

Hi
I enjoyed the Kovea Cupid in moderate temperatures but always felt a little uncomfortable with the butane to propane conversion and no built in safty systems so....
MrHeater Little Buddy 3,800-btu's propane.
Kovea Cupid 3,333-btu's butane, not sure on propane.
It's not cold enough yet to get good temps but I suspect it will be similar to the Cupid in the prior post. My hole in the floor actually worked out fairly well to set the heater (with filter) into. The back kind of wedges against the cabinet making the unit fairly secure. The back is listed at 0" clearance by the way. The heating element aims about chest high if you were sitting opposite it on the couch. Had I planned specifically for this heater I could have placed the hole strategically in a spot allowing the heater to swivel around. I'm happy to provide measurements if anybody is interested. I will post real temps once the evening's get cold enough.
Happy Travels!

[Ahroc]

Hi.

Its 10/7/2021, 11:35pm, 49-deg F outside, 71-deg F inside, the little buddy in the prior post running full bore for several hours, 22-deg temp rise. Its about what I was expecting. I've used this overnight a few nights with no problems. As stated earlier I have (4) CO detectors, none have registered anything. I also keep my back roof vent open about 3/4" all the time. The indoor thermometer is about 3-ft up, same end of the Airstream as the heater, but not in the radiant line of sight.

The trouble with this style of heater is that they don't have thermostats. If the heater is too large you will constantly be turning it on (get hot) off (get cold) on (get hot) off (get cold), constant fiddling...Sizing the heater for the actual temperature gives a nice even inside temp without any fan noise or battery drain.

Happy Travels!

[SuperTrouper]

I'm diggin' the 3" conduit idea. I current use a little buddy and Flame King 1lb refillables and the hose is a much cleaner way to do it. Thanks for sharing- Brad

[Ahroc]

Hi
Well, I recieved this today, and was excited enough to work on it after work. It's an Empire, SR-10TW, 10,000-BTU, with ((Thermostat)). After all my fussing the last 9-months I decided a thermo-statically controlled heater was a priority. It's propane, ventless, and dosent need power. My prior playing hellped me avoid getting too big a unit. Bottom clearance is supposed to be 2", I reduced it to 1-1/2" to get the igniter to clear the shelf above. It's not plumbed in yet, more info to follow.
Happy Travels!

[Ahroc]

Quiting for the night... 3/8 Copper is not very flexible in and around existing cabinets and appliances. I've tapped into the range propane line. It's a bugger getting my two fat hands, fat head, and tools, in the same 6-inches of space. Notice the Crescent wrench strapped to the back of my drawer, had to get creative. Spent several hours bending up a copper pipe all nice and pretty only to figure out I dident leave enough straight on the final end for a nut (and a flair tool), augh. Oh well, tomorrow is another day. Capped both legs of the Tee and turned the propane back on, warming up my bones. Goodnight!

[Ahroc]

Tools I purchased for this project. Tubing bender is Harberfreight, the only 180 bender I could find locally. It worked, kinda ok, the tubing was a little bumpy on the inside radius.
Question... does anyone have any input on Nylog Red, per the web it's supposed to help seal and lubricate propane flair fittings.
Goodnight again.

[Ahroc]

It all looks pretty simple, but in actuality it took quite a bit of time. Working in tight quarters, drill dosent fit, screwdriver dosent fit, wrench dosent fit, hands dont fit... But finally got it hooked up and running. Taking a break and letting it burn hot, to burn off the smells. Will post trailer temps another time. I did purchase some Nylog-Red and put a drop on the flair connestions, it's very sticky & viscous, as I read somewhere else, like clear snot. It's not supposed to ever harden, just fills in tiny voids. Will test connection's later, Airstream is too smelly right now. Happy Travles!

[Ahroc]

Update...
The Empire SR-10TW heater is working GREAT. It's been my primary source of heat for about a week. The thermostat keeps the temp within a couple of degrees. The heater is basically silent, I do hear a quiet click when the gas valve opens and closes. The heater is running 24/7 at this point. I turn the temp up and down as I occupy the Airstream. None of my (4) CO detectors has ever registered anything, but I always keep a little ventilation as required. The humidity has come up to around 60% max even though my dehumidifier is running. I checked all the propane fittings thoroughly with a sniffer, all good. The face of the fold out counter (in vertical position) above the heater gets a little warm, but I can hold my hand on it, so I feel its acceptable. All the heaters in the prior posts worked fine, but the lack of thermostats motivated different solutions. I'll report on Outside-Inside temps once we get cold enough in the Pacific NW.
Happy Travels!

[Ahroc]

Update...
The Empire SR-10TW heater temps with the thermostat on Maximum, (heater never shuts off).

12/4/2021, 6:20am,
Outside, 43.2-deg F, 91% RH
Inside front, 75.7-deg F, 46% RH
Inside back, 70.9-deg F, 58% RH
Outside to Inside front 32.5-deg delta T.

12/14/2021, 3:38am,
Outside, 34.9-deg F, 93% RH
Inside front, 68.5-deg F, 46% RH
Inside back, 64.2-deg F, 60% RH
Outside to Inside front 33.6-deg delta T.

I'm sitting in the dark this cold 35-deg morning feeling cozy in front of the Empire heater. I'm still quite happy with it. I added another indoor thermometer to the back of the Airstream from prior posts, which shows the back runs cooler, as expected. But I'm still using the front inside temp for the inside-outside delta-T for honest comperisons with the other heaters. I'm using the Empire heater about 70% of the time, and the OEM furnace about 30% of the time. Basically even with my little humidifier running all the time the humidity will start to climb higher than I like. Which takes several days with the Empire running 24/7. At which point I will run the OEM furnace for a day or two, allowing the humidifier to catch back up. So with all my playing... I No-Longer have any fear of CO poisoning with these no-vent heaters as long as the recommended ventilation is provided. I was worried at first which is why I have (4) NEW CO sensers in the Airstream. Even before I started playing with these heaters I always kept the back roof vent cracked about 3/4" of an inch for my own personal ventilation, so the ventilation really isn't much different with or without the no-vent heaters. The biggest problem be humidity, it would get pretty bad, pretty fast, if I didnt have a dehumidifier running. So I'm not sure they would be good for full-time boondocking. They would be fine for a several day power outage, like I went thru earlier in the year. My 2-cents.
Happy Travels!

[Fungus]

Great post. Forwarding to my daughter who lives in the country and has no backup heat source.

What dehumidifier do you use? I tried a small Colaze - didn’t work at all. My big basement unit works great but it weighs 40#.

[kidjedi]

Nice job! The install looks really nice with the little shelf next to the door.

I have recently installed a couple of the cheap Chinese diesel heaters. They put out a substantial amount of heat for their size, but they don't really have thermostatic control (some say they do, but I definitely wouldn't trust it), and I definitely miss that luxury. I bet the thermostatic control with that Empire is great.

[Ahroc]

Hi Fungus, Thanks for the positive note!
Not sure why but now my toes itch...
Here is a link to a review I did on the humidifier I use.
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f45...ew-210080.html

Hi kidjedi, Thanks for the positive note! Yes, I like the thermostat. It was the motivating factor with the Empire heater install.

To all, I don't think I mentioned that I removed my range in the prior pics to install the propane line. I also purchased a New Furrion Range with stainless accents from etrailer that is on back-order. I will post a thread on its install once I receive it.


Pic is the top of the heater showing the thermostatic dial, and the igniter. the dial doesn't have degrees but it is a thermostat. You have to find the right setting thru trial and, and put a mark where your comfort zone is.

[Ahroc]

Hi All
I’m a bit O.C.D…. probably why I’m not married…
I’m strongly eyeing this Martin MVD12VP, 11,000-btu input, ~8,600-btu output, no power required, has a thermostat, has a cute little flame you can watch, and it vents out the wall. The only drawback is the… ((BUT-UGLY)) vent thru the wall of my Airstream. Has anyone used one of these? Any input?
Happy Travels!

[Ahroc]

Hi.
Update... I have been using the Empire heater and the OEM furnace simultaneously for the last month. They both kick on and off with their respective thermostats, but on different cycles, resulting in VERY comfortable-stable inside temperature's. And the Empire's humidity hasn't been a noticeable problem using it this way. Outside nightime temps have been in the low 30's regularly. I have a full time job so I tend to set inside temps at 50 when I'm gone, 71 when I get home, and 65 when I sleep. I burn up about 8-gal of propane a week. With a little testing, I've found pretty close temperature settings on the Empire dial. I LOVE the thermostat on the Empire heater and would not get any other heater without a thermostat. Both the OEM furnace and the Empire heater run 24-7 on their thermostats. I'm quite content with my heat system's at the moment and don't foresee any changes. And the Empire will get me by in a pinch if I loose electricity again. I get a little smile on my face when the Empire kicks on, I really like the heat that beams out and soaks into my bones.
Happy & Toasty!

[Ahroc]

Hi
New Micro-Air thermostat!

Thermostats install.
My projects always seem harder in reality than my mind perceives 😊. The existing phone cable was glued into the existing hole with a thick layer of caulking. I spent over an hour with a pair of needle nose pliers pulling little tiny bits of caulking out of the hole. The new thermostat expects a larger hole in the wall for the phone connection to recess into, and enough play for the thermostat to slide down on the screws. So, I had to whittle the hole larger with my pocketknife, carefully avoiding cutting the wire. Because the existing hole was small, locating the new mounting screws took a lot of time, making sure the phone cable connection would center and recess ok. So I’m sure I had several hours in the job, and I’m not quite done yet. I still need to putty old screw holes and stuff some insulation (not caulking) into the hole on the side of the refrigerator cabinet. The cold air behind the refrigerator coming thru the hole will give the thermostat erroneous readings. The blue tape in the picture has a square-with-cabinet line on it as an install guide.

Thermostat use.
Big easy to see characters, for my older eyes. I linked up my Android phone via blue tooth so I can control the thermostat remotely. I tested the propane furnace, heat-pump, air-conditioning, and fan, all seem to function ok. So last night when I woke up shivering in bed, it dawned on me my phone was right next to me. I still had to put on my glasses, but I didn’t have to get out of bed to turn up the heat ! The thermostat is a bit pricy, but I’m enjoying it so far. I’m content with the purchase.

Happy Travels!