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01-02-2013, 10:33 AM
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#21
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Rivet Master
1988 32' Excella
Robbinsville
, New Jersey
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hap3
Thank God I hadn't openned the tank valve as we were just preparing to leave on an extended trip.
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But if you opened the valve that would have bled off some of the propane.
This actually seems too common at least in warmer weather, cold propane going into tank then expanding and leaking from the new "safer" valve.
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01-02-2013, 10:59 AM
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#22
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Figment of My Imagination
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over
, More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hap3
So future fills will be made at a more experienced location rather than a retailer that rents truck and trailers and sells propane also.
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Even if their main line of business is renting trucks and trailers, they still have to be licensed to dispense propane. If you're concerned that this location is not doing it right, I would suggest that you find out what State department regulates the sale of propane in the state where you got the tank filled, and lodge an official complaint. If improper procedures are being followed, the location may find their license pulled as a result.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
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01-02-2013, 11:12 AM
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#23
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Rivet Master
1995 30' Excella
Bowie
, Maryland
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanoeStream
That's right in our price range using a gritty local equipment rental business. Closer to $30 at gas stations and U-Haul.
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Funny - the $22-$24 I quoted is at a gas station and a campground (a campground that actually charges a fair price for propane...whodathunkit?).
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
They don't fill the tanks because of the possibility of expansion when it gets hot. I believe it is illegal to fill them. I believe they can only fill them to 80 or 85%. That comes out to 7 gal. for a 30 lb. tank.
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Correct, but Blue Rhino and the like are underfilling even more than that.
__________________
1995 Airstream Classic 30' Excella 1000
2014 Ram 2500 Crew Cab with Cummins 6.7L Diesel
Sold but not forgotten: 1991 Airstream B190
Sold: 2006 F-250 6.0L Powerstroke Supercab
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01-02-2013, 11:14 AM
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#24
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Excella
1963 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Central
, Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hap3
The valve was checked at the time and was fine. Also the tank has been refilled several times since this incident in Febuary of 2012 and hasn't failed.
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The new style tanks actually have 4 valves.
The twist valve
The OPD
A check valve
And an over pressure vent valve.
The 1st three are all in series.
The vent is separate and once 'vented' is suspect.
My tanks OPD valves slam shut when full and the fill pump deadheads.
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01-02-2013, 11:17 AM
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#25
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Rivet Master
1965 17' Caravel
1983 27' Excella
Walnut Grove/Laguna Woods
, California
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,635
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Just had a 30# filled at Pismo Coast Village in Pismo Beach CA. I removed it, placed it in front of our trailer, it was picked up and a few minutes later it came back full.
$30.00
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01-02-2013, 11:42 AM
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#26
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Figment of My Imagination
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over
, More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
They don't fill the tanks because of the possibility of expansion when it gets hot. I believe it is illegal to fill them. I believe they can only fill them to 80 or 85%. That comes out to 7 gal. for a 30 lb. tank.
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80% of a 30-pound tank is 24 pounds of propane. At 4.3 pounds per gallon (at 70°F) that's only about five and a half gallons of propane. Seven gallons would be approximately 30 pounds of propane, which is about right for a 40-pound tank at 80% full.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
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01-02-2013, 11:45 AM
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#27
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Rivet Master
Airstream - Other
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Bosque Farms
, New Mexico
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,029
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BBQ cylinders have a marking on the collar for WC. For BBQ cylinders, the WC is generally around 47.x, indicating that the cylinder, when full, can contain 47.x pounds of water. If you multiply that number by .42, you'll get the capacity of the cylinder in pounds of propane. It'll be at or very close to 20 pounds.
Now check the "net weight" on the plastic sleve of a trade-in BBQ cylinder (Blue Rhino and others). You'll see that it is generally 15 pounds. In other words, they'll filling only to partial capacity.
On the positive side, these cylinders all have OPD valves and are (supposed to be) within the qualification date. When folks come here with a cylinder that cannot be filled (no OPD, out of qualification, damaged, whatever), I have them do the trade-in. And then remind them that it's no problem to have their new cylinder refilled by a dealer; i.e., no need to do yet another trade-in when that one's empty.
Lynn
__________________
ACI Big Red Number 21043
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01-02-2013, 11:47 AM
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#28
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Rivet Master
Airstream - Other
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Bosque Farms
, New Mexico
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,029
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The 80% figure is already factored in, so if the WC figure indicates (after math; see my post above) that it'll contain 30 pounds of propane, then you don't subtract 20% and then fill; rather, you fill to 30 pounds.
Lynn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protagonist
80% of a 30-pound tank is 24 pounds of propane. At 4.3 pounds per gallon (at 70°F) that's only about five and a half gallons of propane. Seven gallons would be approximately 30 pounds of propane, which is about right for a 40-pound tank at 80% full.
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__________________
ACI Big Red Number 21043
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01-02-2013, 11:53 AM
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#29
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,711
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I knew Lynn would explain it.
Gene
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01-02-2013, 12:02 PM
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#30
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Figment of My Imagination
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over
, More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
I knew Lynn would explain it.
Gene
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Yep. Lynn explained it well enough that even I could understand it, thick-skulled as I am. Now if only Lynn could explain it to the people selling propane, who probably are doing the mental math the way I erroneously did
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
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01-02-2013, 12:06 PM
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#31
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Rivet Master
Airstream - Other
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Bosque Farms
, New Mexico
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,029
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Ah, I do sell propane. Alas, life would be much easier at the moment if our scale weren't so filled with ice and snow.
Lynn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protagonist
Yep. Lynn explained it well enough that even I could understand it, thick-skulled as I am. Now if only Lynn could explain it to the people selling propane, who probably are doing the mental math the way I erroneously did
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__________________
ACI Big Red Number 21043
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01-02-2013, 12:06 PM
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#32
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,711
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I didn't understand it that well either, but it seemed to come out to 7 gal. I always watch them when they fill it to make sure they do not fill it more.
Gene
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01-02-2013, 12:11 PM
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#33
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Figment of My Imagination
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over
, More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eubank
Ah, I do sell propane. Alas, life would be much easier at the moment if our scale weren't so filled with ice and snow.
Lynn
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No offense meant. You're not one of the sellers short-filling tanks, either. But it seems to me that based on the experienes of people getting short-fills, that the people selling them propane were doing the math the way I did, and assuming that they would have to fill a 30-pound tank to only 24 pounds, not to 30.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
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01-02-2013, 12:18 PM
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#34
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Rivet Master
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,803
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Let's see,
Screw in fill hose to POL connection, open main valve on tank, open "spit" valve on tank, open valve on fill hose, turn on pump, when spit valve starts to spit fuel turn off fill hose valve, close spit valve, close main valve, turn off pump, unscrew fill hose. Tank is filled to 80% with room for expansion.
Yeah, that's so hard it required that every tank in the USA needed to have the valves replaced. Makes you wonder who came up with that idea, the valve company, tank company or the government for a way to line a few pockets of friends in that business.
Enjoy,
__________________
Paul Waddell
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01-02-2013, 12:25 PM
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#35
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Rivet Master
2000 31' Land Yacht
Central
, Florida
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,489
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Almost the same with on board tank for mh, but when close to spitting, nozzle has to be going slow not full tilt, new operators tend to figure automatic pumps and shutoffs from gasoline similar, not. Make sure your propane refrigerator isn't on and don't use it until you have had a day of not smelling overflow propane.
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01-02-2013, 12:28 PM
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#36
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Rivet Master
Airstream - Other
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Bosque Farms
, New Mexico
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,029
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In the US, it was the National Fire Protection Association, the NFPA, that mandated OPD valves (see NFPA #58, Liquified Petroleum Gas Code). The various states are free to come up with their own codes, of course; they are usually some variety of the codes in NFPA #58.
Lynn
Quote:
Originally Posted by rideair
Let's see,
Screw in fill hose to POL connection, open main valve on tank, open "spit" valve on tank, open valve on fill hose, turn on pump, when spit valve starts to spit fuel turn off fill hose valve, close spit valve, close main valve, turn off pump, unscrew fill hose. Tank is filled to 80% with room for expansion.
Yeah, that's so hard it required that every tank in the USA needed to have the valves replaced. Makes you wonder who came up with that idea, the valve company, tank company or the government for a way to line a few pockets of friends in that business.
Enjoy,
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__________________
ACI Big Red Number 21043
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01-02-2013, 12:52 PM
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#37
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Rivet Master
2006 25' Safari
St. Augustine
, Florida
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,670
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As of today in Fort Myers, FL at Ameri-gas it is $2.89/gal.
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01-02-2013, 01:26 PM
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#38
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Rivet Master
1983 34' Excella
1967 24' Tradewind
Little Rock
, Arkansas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,825
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I paid $28.89 the last two times I filled a 40. Most recently December, 31st and before that on November 19th.
I fill my bottles at a storage place, not U-Haul, a locally owned place. They fill by weight and know what they are doing. Interestingly, they told me that Arkansas does not require OPD valves, although that was a few years back when there was the big move to adopt them. However, it looks like attrition is taking care of the switch anyway.
__________________
Vaughan
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01-02-2013, 02:07 PM
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#39
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Antiquepedaler
2010 25' FB Flying Cloud
Currently Looking...
Laramie
, Wyoming
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 831
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Always buy by the gallon in the MT WY CO TX NM AZ area. Cost varies from $2.65 to $2.90. Haven't had a vender use a scales in years.
__________________
Antique Pedaler
2021 Caravel 20 FB
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01-02-2013, 02:56 PM
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#40
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Rivet Master
Airstream - Other
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Bosque Farms
, New Mexico
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,029
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Vendors in NM are supposed to use a scale at all times (for environmental reasons), but I know that at least several of them don't bother, namely, some places where I've had our cylinders filled while on vacation.
Lynn
__________________
ACI Big Red Number 21043
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