What's the fight about?

[kb0zke]

In reading some of the threads on this sub-forum, I get the impression that there is some sort of fight going on in the WBCCI, but I'm not sure that I understand what it is all about. It appears to me that there is a proposed new constitution and by-laws in the works, and that there is a group that wants to open up WBCCI to people who don't own Airstreams. There is some confusion in my mind on this. I well understand that there could be an argument about whether someone who owns an Airstream motor home could be a member, since when the organization was first started there were no such things. I don't understand why someone who owns some other brand would want to belong to a brand club that isn't his brand.

Currently, we own a Heartland mpg 181. That's our learning RV, and we're thinking about an Airstream for our FT rig. We're also thinking about other brands of RVs. As Heartland owners, we're welcome to join the Heartland Owners' Club and participate in their activities. Heartland is now owned by Thor, the same company that owns Airstream. I doubt that an Airstream owner could, by virtue of owning a Thor product, be allowed to join H.O.C. Why, then, should Airstream accept someone who doesn't own an Airstream?

Should we decide to trade our mpg in on an RV that isn't a Heartland product, we won't be immediately drummed out of the club. We simply won't be able to attend the Rallys. I suppose that if we had a significant amount of time left on our membership we could ask for a refund of the unused portion, but we probably wouldn't do that. We would probably know before we had to renew if we were going to go another direction, and simply wouldn't renew. If the decision would be made several months after the renewal, well, the dues aren't that much, and we've had plenty of good fellowship.

This apparent fight has me concerned. One of the big attractions for the Airstream is the WBCCI, and if it is being torn asunder, then maybe we ought to look for some other RV. As an outsider, I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of WBCCI politics, and I'm really not interested in the details. I do know that WBCCI has a well-deserved history of setting a good example for all of the rest of the RV organizations. It would be a shame to throw that reputation away.

[smhx4]

Gosh I couldn't imagine not owning a AS because of whatever issues the wbcci is having. In fact we bought our AS without even paying attention to the club at all.

We have owned for almost three years and just now joined the wbcci. We stayed at a airstream only park once and it was awesome. The nicest people and they let us stay for free. We would join just to stay there alone.

The AS community is wonderful. There will always problems or issues with clubs this large but we choose not to let that bother us. It's about camping, having fun, seeing new places, and meeting new people for us. And doing it all in the coolest travel trailer ever!

Best wishes.

[Nuvite-F]

It would take hours to bring you up to speed on the last several years of history, but it’s all here on these forums if you want to take the time to read it. The following threads are a good start:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...ted-61430.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...uit-61787.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...tml#post895603

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...ons-68639.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286/wbcci-moho-issue-71029.html

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[damonbeals]

David don't worry.. Join the WBCCI and your local unit, hang out with them and have a great time at the Rally's and events. While there are issues within the club, it's not unlike any large organization. The WBCCI gets a bad rap on Airforums but if you meet with members in your area you will see the other side of the club.

Don't let the negative press on Airforums prevent you from giving the WBCCI a try.

Damon Beals

[Bill M.]

I belong to WBCCI and love it. Good reason to buy and Airstream. I agree, buy the Airstream, join the WBCCI, go to the local unit events, go on caravans. Everbody is super nice and there is no problem with the club or the people.

It is, however, a club with a declining and aged membership. It is a club that is run by a strong, established central leadership. Personally, I am glad for that. I expect any organization that goes from 35000 members to 5000 members has to make some adjustments.

[RickDavis]

Originally Posted by Bill M.

It is, however, a club with a declining and aged membership. It is a club that is run by a strong, established central leadership. Personally, I am glad for that. I expect any organization that goes from 35000 members to 5000 members has to make some adjustments.

The club has always had the strong established central leadership. That has, in my opinion, contributed to the 80% plus loss in membership.
It has also always had an aged membership also and still does as it does not appeal to younger people.

There is no doubt adjustments need to be made but they will not be accomplished by running off forward thinking ,and usually younger members so as to maintain the status quo.

Unfortunately what worked in 1976 does not always work today

[whitefawn]

Well I would really like to know what the issues are, but don't want to spend hours sorting through threads to "get the gist of it". Is there such a thing as an objective and concise rendering of what is going on? My membership dues are hard-earned, as are yours, and I would like to feel good about plunking those dollars down yearly...

Kathy

[StreamRollin]

Kathy, from what I have read it's about letting existing lifetime members who currently own an Airstream motorhome keep their WBCCI membership active even if they purchase another Thor (parent company) brand motorhome. There are some people who fear that if this change passes, then it opens channels for other members to keep their WBCCI status, trade into another Thor make/model and the club will eventually be just an RV club instead of a Branded club. or it will become the THOR RV Club.


Kind of like: I own and drive a Mini Cooper, I belong to a Mini Cooper club, only Mini's drive in our club rallys, only Mini's allowed in the club. If I exchange my car for a BMW (parent company), I relinquish my membership, it's a priviledge of ownership. I respect that, it's in the rules.

So is owning an Airstream, for now.

Wendy

[dwightdi]

Issue one - There are 6 members who wanted to rewrite the constitution. They want the club to approve their version, that does away with representative democracy and replaces it with direct voting via the internet or whatever. They did this to give the MAL's some way to vote. Some people do not think this is the proper approach to solve this problem. There are many loose ends in their version.

Issue two - There are a few Past International Presidents who would like to buy new motorhomes but Airstream does not make them anymore. They want to change the club membership requirements to allow them to buy any Thor built Motorhome and keep their membership. Some people think there should only be Airstreams in an Airstream club.

Issue three -The club's method of selecting and promoting leaders causes the club to be dominated by people who can take early retirement but are pretty old by the time they reach leadership positions. Other people think we should elect leaders from the ranks rather than having them essentially appointed by a three member committee headed by a past International president..

[RickDavis]

Issue 4
The club has a vaguely worded code of ethic and an ethics and grievance committee that has been used to harass several outspoken members and in one case kick out a member, incurring over $20k in unneeded legal expense.

Issue 5
The elimination of 3 amp or other lower cost parking options at the last 2 internationals. No change in sight.

I am sure someone can add to this list

[Air Apparent]

Whitefawn:

In my opinion it's a generational / cultural wars type of thing.

The club is structured so that the national organization leadership positions, the Executive Committee (EC) and the Internationa Board of Trustees (IBT), requires retired people. Thus working people, who are the younger members, in reality cannot hold the positions due to demands of time required by these positions. Although elections are held they are not truly democratic because the leadership controls who can run by controlling the nominating committee. The International President (IP) also controls who can put information into the culb magazine regarding nominations. Think about how the top leadership worked in the Soviet Union, then you will have a good understanding as to how the club's national leadership works. The EC and IBT are also run by people who have attitudes stuck in the 1950's and who are unwilling to past the torche to the next generation. The EC controls the agenda of the club. Members who have tried to change the club are either expelled or resign due to frustration. Thus it is impossible to get any change through if you are not part of the EC or IBT. Many have tried but few have been successful. Many of those in the older generation, of which make up a majority of the club, like the way the club is run and don't see any need for change.

There are more Airstreams on the road today than at any time in history but the club has been losing members for the last twenty years. I believe that this generational issue is the reason why the club can't attract and retain many younger members; it's essentially a retirees club.

The constitution, bylaws, and amendment issues are all related to who has control - the EC & IBT or the general membership.

The other major issue dividing the club at this point is that most of the EC and IBT own motorhomes and want new ones while remaining in the club and holding their positons of power. They want to allow in non Airstream brand motorhomes into a club that requires an Airstream product to be a member. They want to change this requirement to meet their needs. Thus the requirement that has been in the club since it founding over 50 year ago is to be done away with because we are no longer to be an Airstream club but a RV social club. Of 6,000 club member there are about only 460 motorhome members. The EC and IBT brought this issue up for a vote to the memberhsip back in 2007 and it was soundly defeated. However, if you have the power you can keep trying until you get what you want.

Unfortunately the club won't change until the current generation in power dies off.

Many will say to focus on the unit level, have fun and ignore the politics at the national level. However the national dues are $65 per year and are a requirement to belong to a unit.

I have been a member since 2005 and this is my view of the "State of the Club". I'm sure many others will voice a different view. However, if you read the various thread on the topic I belive that the issues boil down to what I have stated.

Hopes this helps.

[RickDavis]

Dave.
Very well said.
One correction. You are painting a rosier picture than actually exists.
If you judge the membership loss by the attendance at the International, They tend to run together, the membership loss has been going on for 35 years.
The rally attendance can be found in the membership directory so it is easily checked.

Basically it has been a downhill slide since a peak in 1976.

[eubank]

Ultimately, it's not the EC that will make the decision on allowing non-AS products into the club, as I understand it. Rather, it will be up for a vote by the members. (Since this was turned down the last time it was brought forth, I think they've got themselves an uphill battle.)

As far as culture wars are concerned, it's probably not 50s attitudes since those who were RVing in the 50s are, in general, not RVing now. (That would include folks like my parents, who are still alive, but well beyond the RVing stage of life.)


Lynn

[Air Apparent]

Lynn:

Lawrence Welk attitudes are the 50's to me. Maybe early 60's. My dad who is 80 wouldn't be comfortable with the leadership's attitudes. I wouldn't insult him that way. My grandfather who died in 1984 at the age of 99 would find the EC and IBT attitudes to his liking.

[kb0zke]

I've figured out most of the abbreviations, I think. EC = Executive Committee; VAC = Vintage Airstream Club; IBT = International Board of Trustees. What does MAL stand for?

Structure seems to be a top-down one (one must belong to WBCCI first, then a Unit (regional/state group?), then a local club?

My reason for asking about the club is that even in the short time we've owned our mpg, belonging to the Heartland Owners' Club has been a great blessing, and if we end up buying an Airstream for our full-timing rig, we will expect to join WBCCI as well. I'm not sure what we would do about any other levels, though, since our plan is to travel the country for several years.

[Air Apparent]

MAL = Member at Large. MAL's don't belong to a unit. In addition to the $65 fee to headquarters they also pay an additional $20. MAL's do not get a vote.

Upon joining the club you select the unit you are joining OR become a MAL. You pay the $65 plus whatever the unit dues are (varying from $1 to $20) depending upon the unit. Units are grouped by 12 regions.

[kb0zke]

Thanks for explaining it.

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by kb0zke

My reason for asking about the club is that even in the short time we've owned our mpg, belonging to the Heartland Owners' Club has been a great blessing, and if we end up buying an Airstream for our full-timing rig, we will expect to join WBCCI as well. I'm not sure what we would do about any other levels, though, since our plan is to travel the country for several years.

If you do decide to join WBCCI, I would suggest joining a unit if for no other reason than to save money; as Bluebird pointed out some units have dues as low as $1 and WBCCI membership at large would cost you an additional $20 a year.

Units vary enormously in style, some tend to be very authoritarian while others are laid back. The thing to be aware of is that as a WBCCI member, either a member of any unit or as a MAL, you can attend any activity of any unit, which gives you a chance to visit different units to see for yourself what they are like.

WBCCI regions and units are listed here: http://www.wbcci.org/index.cfm?pageSRC=Regions

There are several units in your area that might be of interest. You can be a member of any unit you want; units have no exclusive geographical territories. Some of the $1 a year "virtual units" that come to mind are Washington DC Unit (WDCU), Four Corners Unit (FCU or 4CU), and Northern Ohio Virtual Airstreamers (NOVA).
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[Gene]

Even if the WBCCI was run perfectly (many will disagree what that means) it would have declined, though probably not so much. Many traditional clubs are losing members and the internet is part of the reason. This Forum and other loosely organized groups have grown while older type organizations have declined.

Culture is part of that, but so are other values. While much change has occurred in the past 50 years, not everyone has. There are frequent references to Lawrence Welk. Besides the music, Welk was an authoritarian. That type of leadership no longer is effective. Some people embraced rock 'n' roll, others stuck with the past. Some people like to wear ties, some don't. Some supported the Vietnam war, some did not. The WBCCI appears to have many ceremonies (flags, ties, processions, etc.) that no longer reflect what many people want. There appear to be former career military in leadership positions who have not realized they are now civilians and act as if they are generals.

On a more general level, the anser to your question is ego (on all sides), power or lack of it, and resistance to change.

Some WBCCI units are run informally and ignore the WBCCI for the most part. Others do not. A lot of WBCCI members are loyal to the unit, but not to the national organization. Reformers have tried to become leaders on a national level, but have been blocked by the leadership. The governing rules of the organizational make it difficult to rise up though a system without support from the national leaders. It also appears that efforts to reform the organization are stymied by the national leadership with parliamentary interpretations that are questionable legally and/or morally.

The WBCCI has an annual membership fee and units have various additional fees. One I would join if it were not part of the WBCCI has a $1 annual fee (if they left the WBCCI it would have to go up to cover insurance). Almost all the fees go to support the national organization and my thought is why support them? The WBCCI has a substantial endowment—the figure $1,000,000 is often mentioned though I don't know if that is correct. If units start leaving they may lose their share and that could be a difficult legal fight—like when a church schism occurs.

Even if the WBCCI is totally reformed, it will never grow to the size it was. It is a different time. They may stop the bleeding, and may even increase membership a bit, but that is it.

When we bought our Airstream we had never heard of the WBCCI. I started reading about it later and did not like what I saw. We have created friendships through the Forum and have attended a few gatherings. We do a lot of traveling and are very busy retirees so we haven't gone to many rallies of any sort—WBCCI, Forum or informal. The WBCCI does not represent retirees, only some retirees. There are many opportunities to attend rallies—many are created by Forum members, WBCCI units have buddy rallies that do not require membership in the WBCCI, or you can arrange to meet people through the Forum or independent, loosely organized groups like TAC. We have camped with friends who do not have Airstreams. Everyone has many options. When the WBCCI was created and for years afterward, there really weren't a lot of options, now there are.

The WBCCI had a good reputation and may have lead the way decades ago, but now the reputation is tainted and they are not leaders at all. You can buy and Airstream and still have fun.

Gene

[Janet H]

David - it's important when considering all this to remember that most RV owners Clubs are actually administered in part or in full by the RV manufacturer. I checked out the Heartland Owners Club and this seems to be the case as well. These clubs are usually set up in part to support owners and offer some community but also as a way of continued marketing.

There was a time when the WBCCI was probably in this role as well, but at present it is not affiliated with Airstream Inc (Thor). The role of the WBCCI when compared to most other owners clubs is somewhat unique in this respect.

Finding other Airstreamers and interacting with them is the primary reason folks join the WBCCI. They also join AIRForums for the same reason. Many do both. You might try visiting a local unit event or two and try it on for size. You could also attend an Air Forums rally or two for the same reason. See what fits your needs (or not) and then decide.