WBCCI's new membership policy?

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Leipper

"confrontational ... how else can we learn anything?" - by listening carefully, avoiding divisiveness, avoiding bigotry, and making sure we really understand each other. Making those with differing opinions an evil group or criminalizing those who do not agree does not help anyone.

Confrontational...Oppose or face

Nothing about not listening, divisiveness, bigotry, or not understanding.
Evil, where did that come from? Criminal, your kidding of course

[TBRich]

If and when we were to join the WBCCI it will not be because of the WBCCI's marketing effort (if you can call it that)...it will be because of the folks we've encountered here on the Airforums.

Speaking as an "outsider" and asking myself, "Should I join?": To insist than any member with a dissenting opinion is an "enemy of the WBCCI" is enough to give any rational person reason for pause in joining the organization. That attitude does not make joining look very attractive to anyone! It's like saying, "If you are a member of WBCCI, and you dare to hold an opinion which is counter to our opinion...you will be removed." Hmmm. Let me think.

[RIstream'n]

Originally Posted by moosetags

Thanx for the heads-up. I guess that I could be classified as an AIR Forums ringleader and, as such, maybe targeted for elimination by the IBT. That would sadden me greatly, but if I had to choose one, it would be AIR Forums.

It would be a very sad day indeed, if I could be kicked out of the WBCCI for not always agreeing with the club leadership. If I am involuntarily separated from WBCCI, I guarantee that I will not go quietly.

This may not be all bad. The WBCCI could morph into a Thor camper club, and these Forums will remain as the difinative Airstream Club of the future.

Brian

I think the forums should be or play a big part in the airstream club of the future.

[eubank]

You know, I don't mean to throw sand on anything, but because the matter at hand really does have to do with important issues, I'd really like to know when and where Jim Franklin came up with these proposals. Was it in the context of an IBT meeting? If so, where and when? Or was it in some forum or another? Again, when and where?

Again, I don't disbelieve the quotes, and I'd be among the last to trumpet the horn of the uppermost echelon of the WBCCI, but I also think it important to provide full context to statements that seem to inflammatory.


Lynn

[ckeysor]

I agree with many of the posts above. I was first an Airforums member and then joined the WBCCI (and the WDCU in particular) based on the comments in the forum. The organization has a wonderful history and I personally would like to see it survive.

I am also very pleased to see the update on the 2020 Vision on the WBCCI website. It takes a lot of courage for members of the WBCCI to face the brutal facts (stolen from Jim Collins).

I would also like to understand something a little better. It almost seems that a lot of the issues in the club stem from the very real differences in what each generation wants. I work in the senior living field and I amazed at how different the generational needs are.

Said a different way. The revival of Airstream has occurred because the company realized (finally) what the next generation of consumers wanted. The club will have to follow suite or unfortunately it will die a slow death. However, at no time should the current generation discount the accomplishments of the current leadership, its just different from what we would do.

I don't like the formality or the rules and I want to be around streamers with children, etc., but I plan on doing what I want to do and allow others to do what they want!

[Jim Foster]

We attended our first WBCCI Region Rally a number of years ago, when Jim Franklin was President of that region. It was the Region 11 Rally in Casa Grande AZ. We parked with the vintage group in that dusty, dirty, ugly place and had a great time.

The Friday evening entertainment was a High School Band. They were really pretty good. An Airstreamer in the audience performed as a "One Man Band", but was not scheduled at this event. He was just a spectator. When the High School Band was on their brake, this Airstreamer talked to the band leader and was asked to join them on stage. He did, and they tore the house down. The audience went wild, if you can picture that.

The following morning the "One Man Band" Airstreamer was seen hauling out. He had been asked to leave the rally as he was not supposed to be part of the entertainment.

[Mike Leary]

Wally, yes, the rest of the bunch, I don't belong, but I'll wave to classics.

[RedSHED]

Originally Posted by eubank

You know, I don't mean to throw sand on anything, but because the matter at hand really does have to do with important issues, I'd really like to know when and where Jim Franklin came up with these proposals. Was it in the context of an IBT meeting? If so, where and when? Or was it in some forum or another? Again, when and where?

Again, I don't disbelieve the quotes, and I'd be among the last to trumpet the horn of the uppermost echelon of the WBCCI, but I also think it important to provide full context to statements that seem to inflammatory.


Lynn

About 2/3 through the webcast.
I just listened to it (the Jim Franklin bit), and had a slightly different interpretation about the blog/forum aspect than the OP. You'd have to listen for yourself, I think, to decide.

OTOH, There seemed to be a truly fantastic amount of discussion about the nuances of reimbursements.

[Buttercup]

What??? What did you just say???? Don't dumb this thread down with this gobble-de-gook.
I asked you to post your interpretations of Jim's comments, preferably after listening to them yourself. You chose to take a whack at the others in this thread. What's that??? Pulling quotes from 2 years ago???

The topic here is not about how we are such a dummies when it comes to reading or listening to an audio file but rather about Jim Franklin's desires to kick out members of the club who post messages which can be characterized as disparaging towards himself or the IBT. I have no idea what the heck you are talking about. Did you listen to any of the IBT Meetings at International?

Rather than tell everybody how they are somehow wrong, why not post what are YOUR THOUGHTS about Jim Franklin's speech at International - tell us why we are all wrong about what he said. Again - 2nd time I am asking YOU, Bryan - How do you - Bryan - interpret Jim Franklins message as recorded at the meetings at International.

Originally Posted by Leipper

"This comes as news to me." - a lot of the news isn't - its fantasizing based on cynicism and paranoia, I think.

"run a brown shirts organization" [-- Godwin appears?]

"I think that the leadership is just scared" - predicting others' motivations or emotions is a risky endeavor. Better to stick to your own and be self aware.

"confrontational ... how else can we learn anything?" - by listening carefully, avoiding divisiveness, avoiding bigotry, and making sure we really understand each other. Making those with differing opinions an evil group or criminalizing those who do not agree does not help anyone.

"I was in on the discussions when the 4CU was proposed. I like their point of view" - I think you missed the original stimulus and pegged instead a take-over that I think was done via convenience.

There is much to observe. Of course we want to believe our perceptions are completely in line with reality and that our skills are superb. There is a name for this when it goes a bit over the top and it is a reminder that sometimes a bit of humility can serve us well.

[Buttercup]

The audio files can be heard at WBCCI.org.
Scroll down to the bottom of the page to see the links. You can see more about this topic at the SaveWally site where we have pulled the quotes. Better to go through the audio files though. The IBT seminar and IBT Meeting are the ones you will find Jim at his finest.

Originally Posted by eubank

You know, I don't mean to throw sand on anything, but because the matter at hand really does have to do with important issues, I'd really like to know when and where Jim Franklin came up with these proposals. Was it in the context of an IBT meeting? If so, where and when? Or was it in some forum or another? Again, when and where?

Again, I don't disbelieve the quotes, and I'd be among the last to trumpet the horn of the uppermost echelon of the WBCCI, but I also think it important to provide full context to statements that seem to inflammatory.


Lynn

[moosetags]

Originally Posted by Jim Foster

We attended our first WBCCI Region Rally a number of years ago, when Jim Franklin was President of that region. It was the Region 11 Rally in Casa Grande AZ. We parked with the vintage group in that dusty, dirty, ugly place and had a great time.

The Friday evening entertainment was a High School Band. They were really pretty good. An Airstreamer in the audience performed as a "One Man Band", but was not scheduled at this event. He was just a spectator. When the High School Band was on their brake, this Airstreamer talked to the band leader and was asked to join them on stage. He did, and they tore the house down. The audience went wild, if you can picture that.

The following morning the "One Man Band" Airstreamer was seen hauling out. He had been asked to leave the rally as he was not supposed to be part of the entertainment.

Thanx for the insight, Jim. That kinda says it all. If that is the attitude that Jim Franklin has, he should not be in the leadership of our club. You'll notice that I say "our" club. WBCCI is as much my club as it is Jim Franklin's.

Brian

[ROBERT CROSS]

Not being a member IBT= International Board of Trustees?

[Jim Foster]

Originally Posted by moosetags

Thanx for the insight, Jim. That kinda says it all. If that is the attitude that Jim Franklin has, he should not be in the leadership of our club. You'll notice that I say "our" club. WBCCI is as much my club as it is Jim Franklin's.

Brian

We had been members of WBCCI for less than a year at that point. Since that incident, except for one Region 12 rally, we have confined our participation to our units. (our main unit and one affiliate membership) We are also members of VAC. Now that's a bunch of real fun people.

We really enjoy being members of WBCCI. But, that enjoyment is due to the great unit activities. Like any club or organization, it all depends on the people with whom you choose to associate. If you know what I mean.

[Jim Foster]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Not being a member IBT= International Board of Trustees?

That's correct Robert.

I have my own three words for IBT, but not for mixed company.

[66Overlander]

I've listened to the mentioned quotes in the IBT recordings and my hearing must be the same as Buttercup's regarding Mr. Franklin's opinions about comments made "on the blog". I read Mr. Franklin's comments the same way. One thing Mr. Franklin seems to forget is that many of the most vocal anti-WBCCI members are past members who cannot be evicted from the club, because they have already left on their own and may never come back.

As for comments made by current WBCCI members that may not be overly friendly toward some of the WBCCI International Leadership, all I can say is that some of those members are doing a yeoman's job FOR WBCCI. They are taking positions as Unit and Intraclub Leaders. They are creating events that appeal to a new (and younger) audience than typical WBCCI events. Heck, they are even creating new units. They are the type of people that are bringing the younger generation into WBCCI and I remain in WBCCI because of them. I want to fight for this clubs future along side of them.

Lorrie and I have had some long discussions over the last two years about retaining our WBCCI membership because of the turmoil created by the proposed Name Change and the proposed admission of non-Airstreams into WBCCI. In the end, we chose to remain members because of the great people we have met and the great events we have attended and also because of the people here that are putting up the good fight - trying to change WBCCI to be more relevant for recent and future members. I am now vowing to remain a WBCCI member, if for no other reason than to remain a voice FOR the right kind of changes this clubs needs and a voice AGAINST the types of changes this club does not need. Only by being a part of this great club can you effect change. WBCCI has been around to long and has too much history to let it slide into oblivion without a fight.

SOME CHANGES I THINK THIS CLUB NEEDS:
- A vote for every member including members at large

- Votes that will be counted and will be counted as cast (not changed at the delegates meeting), even if this requires proxy voting when a unit cannot attend International

- Leaders that will not suppress membership driven amdendments (e.g. proxy voting), but will instead help find a way to make them happen.

- Officer elections with multiple candidates for each office (not a slate of Nominee's for each office selected by a hand selected team of 3)

- That candidates will run for office based upon their vision for the future of the club (i.e. not based upon how many rallies and caravans they have participated in)

- Activites (and if necessary, Units) more of interest to younger members, including an occasional modernization of entertainment choices, like the Trailer Park Troubadours

CHANGES THAT THIS CLUB DOES NOT NEED:
- A new name

- Admission of non-Airstream products with full member rights

[bryanl]

What??? What did you just say???? Don't dumb this thread

it is amazing what passes for polite discussion

and what doesn't.

The premise cannot be questioned; the behavior not noted. Toe the line or else. But isn't that supposed to be the "attitude" of the opposition?

SOME CHANGES I THINK THIS CLUB NEEDS:

The task is to sell these ideas to enough people that they will set the course in the direction you favor.

The question to ask, in looking at this discussion, is whether the kind of rhetoric that is on display will persuade others that your have ideas with merit and value.

A large part of the perception of credibility of ideas lies in the credibility of the presentation. Are implications, history, and other viewpoints given due consideration? Is the case made or does it presented as ideological? Are you listening to others to hear what they say? Or are you trying to hear what you want to have heard them say? Do you show an appropriate respect for others and distinguish between opinions and person? Are ideas presented in a neutral manner or in a loaded manner? As constructive or destructive?

Do you send mixed messages? Take a look at the title of this thread then consider what "policy" means in an organizational context. Then take a look at the OP. Do they support each other?

Just what is it you want? Vent? Persuade? Commiserate? Learn? Identity? Sharing? How do you know?

[Forrest]

Buttercup et al,

Whoa! Please, settle down. Realize that Jim Franklin is now a "has-been" and no longer even has a vote on the IBT. He is now simply a member who is a past-president, not an "immediate past-president." The current WBCCI leadership is much friendlier to the VAC and demonstrated it at this past International Rally.

Having met and talked in person with both the current president and 1st vice-president I believe they are trying very hard to achieve a greater acceptance of diversity of opinion, and are open to such discussion. In fact, if you attended the installation of officers ceremony, you would have heard President Larson say just that. I do not believe that either he or 1st VP Tom Collier have any intention of supporting or continuing with Franklin's spiteful leadership style.

I also believe that the weight of the VAC membership and strength of this forum and the demonstrated ability of people like Leo Garvey to mobilize grass root support (or opposition) has garnered at least a token of respect. Now is not the time to become confrontational because of Franklin. Instead, it is a time for diplomacy and cooperation, not rebellion.

Peace, brothers and sisters!

[eubank]

I agree with Forrest. Franklin is part of a long-past administration that was obviously not particularly keen on change. Folks like this will be around for some time to come, and it would be unrealistic to think that they'll check their thoughts at the door.

So, then, while it's a good idea to be aware of people's thoughts -- and an important part of being aware is through this forum and through SaveWally.org -- I don't think the current situation is much to get excited about.

Heck, I'm a lot more concerned about my current mental state, hedging deep, dark (but ultimately futile) thoughts about getting rid of our 67 and getting a Moho sort of like Mark and MJ's Silver Twinkie!


Lynn

Originally Posted by Forrest

Buttercup et al,

Whoa! Please, settle down. Realize that Jim Franklin is now a "has-been" and no longer even has a vote on the IBT. He is now simply a member who is a past-president, not an "immediate past-president." The current WBCCI leadership is much friendlier to the VAC and demonstrated it at this past International Rally.

Having met and talked in person with both the current president and 1st vice-president I believe they are trying very hard to achieve a greater acceptance of diversity of opinion, and are open to such discussion. In fact, if you attended the installation of officers ceremony, you would have heard President Larson say just that. I do not believe that either he or 1st VP Tom Collier have any intention of supporting or continuing with Franklin's spiteful leadership style.

I also believe that the weight of the VAC membership and strength of this forum and the demonstrated ability of people like Leo Garvey to mobilize grass root support (or opposition) has garnered at least a token of respect. Now is not the time to become confrontational because of Franklin. Instead, it is a time for diplomacy and cooperation, not rebellion.

Peace, brothers and sisters!

[Buttercup]

It is my sincere hope that the current administration has a different prospective on the club as evidenced by the new relations with the VAC. That being said I think the way the board deals with the issues it is facing, such as grievances against members who are outspoken, will show if a change in attitude does indeed exist.
Forrest - I agree with you that Jim Franklin is a past, past IBT member but I do not think he has reached "has been" status quite yet. He is an intelligent man and he is well enough versed in the ways of the club and has strong connections with the people who now make up the leadership base. The strength of those relationships shoud be taken into account. I think he has some fire in him yet and he is still exercising that to the best of his ability.

[Ed Emerick]

Originally Posted by Buttercup

I am going to offer my opinion here and I fully expect, knowing the way Jim Franklin and the IBT are dealing with people who disagree with the ideas and positions they take, that I will find a grievance against me and eventually my membership terminated in the club. It's already happening - the club is actively seeking out those who offer a negative opinion of the club and for the first time in 16 years, handling grievances against them.

Can you provide a copy? Scan it as I would like to see what one of these things look like. Heck it might be in my "In Box" and I don't even know it!