WBCCI, Why you left or did not join?

[Lotek]

Originally Posted by Gen Disarray

I normally stay out of these discussions, and to be frank, were it up to me, there would be no WBCCI threads on the forums. Why? Because, these discussions tend to produce a great deal of heat and not much light. I am mildly disappointed in the evolution of the club. Would it be neat if there was a Club of Airstream owners who were in it for the camping? Absolutely. Is that why I own mine? Nope. Has the club evolved into a disembodied social structure? I have to say from the outside it looks like it. Do some of the members confuse the club for a holly order and Wally for the messiah? Again, from the outside, it looks like it. So, yes it is a disappointment, but that’s just the way things are.

Having said that, I think it is admirable that you are making this effort and I wish you well in it. With the foregoing in mind, here is my response.

Paul, I think you have asked the wrong question.


Instead of asking those of us who have not joined, ‘why not’? I would instead have the club ask of itself: “what is this club about, really about?” and if I were not a member “why would I want to join”? “What need does this club really fill"? I suspect in short order this would lead to the realization that the club needs to ask of itself; “Do we REALLY want to grow? What is it that we really want to be, and what are we doing to get there”?

I think if the club was to do that sort of honest self-assessment there would be little reason to ask those of us who are not members what the problem is. Others have been quite eloquent in saying why they didn’t join. I can say this though, as near as I can see, of all of WBCII the 4CU is the only group making good arguments for joining. There may be others, but I haven’t seen it. I hope this is helpful, and I sincerely hope nobody takes any offence to my comments.

Amen to that Gen Disarray.

Even though I'm wildly enthusiastic about my Airstream and camping, I have never had the slightest inclination to join the WBCCI.

As Gen Disarray aptly pointed out, the real question is: why join?

When I got my first little Caravel I looked hard to find a reason to join the premier Airstream Club. I WANTED to find a reason to join. As far as I could tell there were none.

That's still my opinion, but I'm always open minded if something changes!

[DonFitz]

Hi! Well I boght my Airstream about a year ago and had every intention of signing up...but the more I read the more turned off I was. I've gotten some helpful info here on the forum and I subscribe to Airstream Life. But to join the club? I don't think so. I've dealt with enough BS politics in the workplace that it seemed crazy to bring that into a part of my life I want to be stressfree and enjoyable. I've read about the motorhome amendment and personally feel if it's not an Airstream - it's not an Airstream. Period. But all the arguments about whether or not the amendment was properly handled, about Roberts Rules of Order...Geez, people! Get a life! As for me, I'm getting the trailer ready for the camping season and plan to enjoy it - you all can bicker to your heart's content. If you want to know why the club is not growing look in the mirror - I'm sure I'm not the only newbie turned off by all this crap.

[dufferin]

My wife and I joined the club when we purchased our first AS.
For us it was a part of the brand to belong to the club. This was the only reason we applied.
We had a rally last year with the unit and we met great people. I met AS owner and WBCCI members on the road and they were also great.
So my problem with the club doesn't come from the members.
That is a reason we want to stay in.
But I start to have an issue with the way the club is lead.
How much money, how many hours has been spend so far for what : new name, add non-AS MH.
I think AS is doing well. So potential members exist.
Why they do not join.
The fees are high for nothing.
If the IBT has time to waist let them know that now they can focus on something else and take time to check what the other clubs are doing to keep up with membership.
And I won't do it myself. As I said they have time now. And if they can't find anything it's time for them to move out. Or may be start to read this forum.
BTW you're asking "the" question.
best regards
david

[wheel interested]

The governace of the club would like nothing better than to rule undisputed. The 13 year march to the top without running mates and without being challenged is what the club has set up to rule and use its Roberts Rules.

However if some did not decide to "bicker" they would have changed the name and let the Airstream only identity be eliminated. If you were a member would that then matter to you?

The amount of bickering is compensative with the importance of what is happening and because the members are no longer in control of their club. It is also a tactic from those in power to dismiss and reduce the uproar as divisiveness and bickering. There is all in jeporady here. It is a grave injustice going on and our biggest defense is member awareness and involvement.

What it is are passionate members trying to defend their club. It is so much more than the external observation of infighting. Sometimes, as peaceful as one would chose to be, there comes an issue dear to you and you feel obliged to stand up. We are sorry it is not very entertaining for the forums. But though it appears negative it is a positive in the works.

[cooperhawk]

You know that most of the rhetoric and politics are here on the Forum. I have been a member of the WBCCI for probably ten years, and I have yet to hear any of this at any meetings or rallys we've attended. My problem is that the club tends to be boring with its traditions and ceremonies.

Every time someone tries to update the club there is a chorus of outcries from a very small percentage of members on this forum. A very small percentage of members I might add! Don't let that distract you. The club itself is not like that at all.

The Motorhomers they detest so are the very people who have been doing the work of the club for generations, and having retired, sold the home that they raised their family in, decide to either go full time, or buy a smaller home and with the extra money, a larger Airstream. Now its the motorhomers they hate, but a new 35 foot trailer is over one hundred thousand dollars too. A lot of it is simple envy, and a lot of it is, as General Disarray said, a Messaih cult gathered around Wally. Its not always rational.

I guess my point is, don't let all this BS on this forum form your decision about joining or not. Most people who participate in the units have a good time and make many new friends. There are many seemingly good units that I read about, and the rest just need an infusion of younger people willing to help make improvements. That's the biggest problem with our club, we need new and younger members.

The older members of the units would love to have some younger families that would take over some of the work. I know people who are Officers for the third or fourth term simply because there is no one else to do the job. Join a unit and help it evolve.

[wheel interested]

Moderators please start a new thread from my previous post as I don't want to get Paul's thread that far off topic but would like to address the succeeding posts.

[wkerfoot]

Originally Posted by cooperhawk

You know that most of the rhetoric and politics are here on the Forum. I have been a member of the WBCCI for probably ten years, and I have yet to hear any of this at any meetings or rallys we've attended. My problem is that the club tends to be boring with its traditions and ceremonies.

Every time someone tries to update the club there is a chorus of outcries from a very small percentage of members on this forum. A very small percentage of members I might add! Don't let that distract you. The club itself is not like that at all.

The Motorhomers they detest so are the very people who have been doing the work of the club for generations, and having retired, sold the home that they raised their family in, decide to either go full time, or buy a smaller home and with the extra money, a larger Airstream. Now its the motorhomers they hate, but a new 35 foot trailer is over one hundred thousand dollars too. A lot of it is simple envy, and a lot of it is, as General Disarray said, a Messaih cult gathered around Wally. Its not always rational.

I guess my point is, don't let all this BS on this forum form your decision about joining or not. Most people who participate in the units have a good time and make many new friends. There are many seemingly good units that I read about, and the rest just need an infusion of younger people willing to help make improvements. That's the biggest problem with our club, we need new and younger members.

The older members of the units would love to have some younger families that would take over some of the work. I know people who are Officers for the third or fourth term simply because there is no one else to do the job. Join a unit and help it evolve.

Cooperhawk,

You have it correct, most of the politics is at and against the national leaders, the local people, for the most part, are great. The International, for all of its faults, gives you the opportunity to meet, in person, the people you have met over the internet. Where else will you have that opportunity?

Bill

Bill

[wheel interested]

Coop, I find it hard to believe that you have never heard any of this at a meeting, the name change and brand identity of the club is huge. Your unit business meetings should be addressing these issues. Are you saying that every member at the meeting has been in favor of changing the name and letting the club be open to other brands?

You interject that there are motorhome haters frequently and I would like to say I have never seen any evidence of that. The issue isn't even motorhomes but other brands in an Airstream club.

I agree with you that one can just go camping and enjoy their unit and the club. But someone has to care about what is happening and try to stop it, even on behalf of those that do not support the troops.

Your comments about detesting motorhomers are false and inflammatory and create an air of negativity.

No one denies that the club has been kept for us by hard working volunteers and officers. They fought hard to keep it that way and now the baton passes down to others to work towards keeping that same club for our children.

And I completely agree with your comments here.

I guess my point is, don't let all this BS on this forum form your decision about joining or not. Most people who participate in the units have a good time and make many new friends. There are many seemingly good units that I read about, and the rest just need an infusion of younger people willing to help make improvements. That's the biggest problem with our club, we need new and younger members.

The older members of the units would love to have some younger families that would take over some of the work. I know people who are Officers for the third or fourth term simply because there is no one else to do the job. Join a unit and help it evolve.

I just don't want your comments about members hating other members to stand unchallenged. That is a very serious accusation and very slanderous and I take strong exception to those statements.

[cooperhawk]

Thanks bill. too many people are forming opinions of the club from what they read here. I know one or two of the National Officers, and they're regular people who love Airstreamin. They do listen to their local units and try their best to serve the club. Believe me, I couldn't afford to drive around the country doing the International business of the club. No matter how much they are re-imbursed, its not enough and they spend a lot of their own money. Do they enjoy it? They must, cause if they didn't there's no other incentive.

[wkerfoot]

Originally Posted by wheel interested

Coop, I find it hard to believe that you have never heard any of this at a meeting, the name change and brand identity of the club is huge. Your unit business meetings should be addressing these issues. Are you saying that every member at the meeting has been in favor of changing the name and letting the club be open to other brands?

...

Carol,

The units that I belong to could care less about the issues and the leadership, at least on a public basis at the rallies. They just want to camp and enjoy each others company. There are more important things to do at a rally than discuss club politics. Both units are growing.

Bill

[cooperhawk]

You know Carol that I was about to go back and start copying statements already made on that subject. Remember the thread of who would you rather park beside. That's one.

Then I thought about it and decided to just let it go. I think that people say things that have meanings that they don't comprehend at the time. They speak from the heart. The problem is that they don't always realize the impact of what they just said. They probably didn't mean to offend anyone.

Then there are some who are quite caustic about their feelings. On purpose!

I think all of this has a very negative effect on the WBCCI. I for one don't want to further it. I stand by my previous postings and will post no more on the subject.

[grizzy]

I'm an Airstream owner and never joined -- there just seems to be way too much bickering over trivial rules and regulations. I'm not meaning any disrespect to WBCCI members, some people may like that sort of thing in their lives, I don't!

[Buttercup]

I do agree with Wheel. There are pressing issues facing the club and the MOHO issue is only one. I speak from the position of being a double supporter of the WBCCI in that my wife and I have 2 fully paid memberships in WBCCI, one for each trailer we own. When we get #3 trailer, we will be paying for a membership for that unit as well.

Originally Posted by Cooperhawk

Now its the motorhomers they hate (snip). A lot of it is simple envy, and a lot of it is, as General Disarray said, a Messaih cult gathered around Wally.

Cooperhawk, calling anybody who is against the MOHO proposition a motorhome(r) hater is itself a statement of hate and an untrue characterization. And saying that it is just envy is an equally gross misstatement. These folks, hundreds of them, are neither motorhome haters or envious of those who do own them. They love WBCCI. They are against ruining the 52+ year history of this grand club.

The fact that so many are willing to passionately argue against actions being taken by the leadership against the wishes of the majority of the club is a testament to the belief we have that the WBCCI is a great organization worth joining AND participating in. The history is worth celebrating, the rallies are worth going to and the friendships are always worth creating.

That being said, it is still a persistent fact that many are leaving - an estimated 5% or more every year. Airstream sales are up tremendously, Airstream forums participation, rallies and events are on the rise and yet the WBCCI is experiencing a fall. This thread is about why people are leaving WBCCI in the first place OR not just joining. And as stated at the beginning of the thread, the results posted here will be sent to the IBT. The goal being to see what can be done to stop the continuing downward trend in WBCCI's membership levels.

[wheel interested]

Originally Posted by cooperhawk

You know Carol that I was about to go back and start copying statements already made on that subject. Remember the thread of who would you rather park beside. That's one.

Then I thought about it and decided to just let it go. I think that people say things that have meanings that they don't comprehend at the time. They speak from the heart. The problem is that they don't always realize the impact of what they just said. They probably didn't mean to offend anyone.

Then there are some who are quite caustic about their feelings. On purpose!

I think all of this has a very negative effect on the WBCCI. I for one don't want to further it. I stand by my previous postings and will post no more on the subject.

Well Coop I want to copy the statements then since you have introduced it. I do agree with much of what you say but I cannot support your unilateral comments about hatreds. I am sorry that this issue is creating a rift and I too want amends to be made in that regard but opening up the club to other manufactured products is not a controversey of our choosing. I remind you the issue is not centered on motorhomes but other brands aka Four Winds.

My comment on the "Who Would You Prefer to Park Next to?" thread, where I found no category appropriate to vote the poll.

When I went to the IBT rally it was very nice to have a neighbor with a motorhome. We made a group of new friends with our neighbors and we gathered each evening. When it was too cold and windy or too rainy to sit comfortably under the awning, we TT people were very fortunate to be welcomed into the larger interior of the motorhome with slide outs where we could all fit with ample extra room, even had room for their two and my one dog to play.

Other advantages would be that there is more privacy in the trailer since the motorhome windows are higher. The motorhomes will cast a shadow and shade you from the sun and allow your refrigerator and ac to run easier. The motorhomes will block the wind and make your propane for heat last longer.

Given a choice I would go park off the beaten path and be the fool on the hill, but that's just me.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/357063-post6.html

I also thought your response to that was equally as positive.

And my post in regard to the division between us.

I myself want every Airstream motorhome owner to know that I think of you and your units as I do any other member of the club and I think that is the geniune feeling of most all the WBCCI members throughout. What I think is so very unfortunate and a real tragedy is that this motion to let the club be opened to other brands of recreational vehicles has contributed to dialog that has many Airstream motorhome owners being offended by careless words. And I know I would feel that same way, feeling discriminated against and targeted by many of the poorly constructed comments that are not keeping this upheaval to the matter of whether we keep our Airstream identity as the basis for membership or not. I find this so regrettable and I feel badly to see this happen. I think we ought to bend over backwards to assure our motorhome owners that this is not about them. It's like our club's progress has just slipped back to the past and reopened old wounds. Let's not let things go there. Let's look out for one another and work together to go forward.

http://www.airforums.com/forum...4-post246.html

[rideair]

All,

The reason I started this thread was beacuse in a response to "Mr Elmlinger" email back to me. He stated about my "magical answers of how to recruit younger members" and that "I strongly suggest that you write a book on this,
because it will be second only to the Harry Potter series in popularity". It's not that I'm trying to do research to write my new book, but to get the very reasons why the WBCCI members are leaving (other than dying and getting to old) or why Airstreamers do not join. If we can fix those reasons, I think people will join. I am hoping to put together the reasons in a email and send them to him. As I said back to Mr. Thompson, one does not have to look long and hard to find out why people are not joining. Some will say, "Paul, they know why, they just don't want to change" and I know that. I think the WBCCI is a GREAT CLUB!! I love being a member. I defend the WBCCI all the time. I do not agree with the MOHO issue, but it's still a great club and I want to keep it that way. That's why I say, everyone needs to step up and volunteer. We are the WBCCI and we can make it a great club.

[DonFitz]

Hey 65 GT: I DO use the forum, and I'm on here frequently. I've found it a valuable resouce for questions on how to maintain and preserve my Airstream, but lately every time I pull up the portal it's loaded with politics. You wanted to know why I have not joined and that is the reason. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[Stefrobrts]

When I think back to why the WBCCI just wasn't for me, I am reminded of a discussion I had with our unit prez. Now don't get me wrong, she is a wonderful, sweet person, and I likewise found all the people in our unit to be generous and welcoming. But I was discussing all the rules with her which I thought was rediculous - rules like how many flags you could fly, what flags, how long the poles should be, what order they are in, etc, or rules about drinking at rallys, or not allowing dogs at the campfire, or how numbers are displayed - all rules which seem to me to be silly and unnecessary to a camping club. Her response was that every rule was there for a good reason, because something had happened in the past 50 years to cause them to make the rule. The WBCCI is like a nice neighborhood with CC&Rs, she told me. There are lots of rules so everything looks nice and goes smoothly, and there are no problems. Some people appreciate that and some people don't.

Now, I am no anarchist, but I don't think we need a law for every possible thing that could happen. Just because it happened once, doesn't mean we need to protect it from happening again for all eternity. Has anyone seen how big that rulebook is? I am not a CC&R kind of person, and I specifically made sure my home was not in that kind of neighborhood - I guess I like to live on the edge a bit more. I feel the same way about camping. It should be a chance to relax with friends and not have to listen to people whispering about who has their flags improperly displayed, or who brought their dog to the campfire. It's just silly.

At WB rallys we were always a little uncomfortable wondering what things we might be doing wrong, breaking rules we didn't even know about, skipping out on activities that people had spent a lot of time planning and would be insulted or hurt if nobody showed up for. Part of having fun camping is being relaxed. We are always much more relaxed at forum rallys.

[silverback]

A little bit off topic but I feel the need to contribute (and it's Saturday after 5 PM and I'm having a Foster's)... We are only staying in the WBCCI (#5125) so we can join the Four Corners Unit. We will (I think) be giving up our MAL status becasue the 4CU is our kind of people. We want to rally and camp out in the beautiful southwest. Per the latest Blue Beret the approved AZ unit is having a luncheon. No direspect but we want more. They (the grand WBCCI poobahs) better approve the 4CU or they won't get our renewal next year.
-KL

[JimGolden]

So I can't fly my confederate battle flag, my Gadsden flag, and my first navy jack?

[mistral blue]

I haven't joined The WBCCI. But I will if the IBT wants me. I just don't think they want me. Money's no object. Sign me up for 10 memberships. But you gotta come and get it.

I've had 4 different Airstreams since 1985 boys and girls. I used to write to the EC all the time making suggestions. Silly me, I thought it would be a good idea to allow me and my Argosy into the club. What was I thinking? Thank goodness the WBCCI ignored me.

BUT!... If the IBT wants ME to join this club, at least three IBT members need to come onto THIS forum (not the WBCCI forum and not the SaveWally forum) and explain to the members of THIS forum why it is a good idea to allow ANY moho made by Four Winds into the WBCCI. And I do NOT want one letter signed off on by three IBT members. And I do NOT want poor Renee speaking for them. (God bless Renee.) I want three IBT members to speak to all of us with their own voices.

Gentlemen of the IBT, these are my only terms and conditions. Just have the guts to respond and you automatically gain one member. ME! Just think, if the three of you can be persuasive enough, you might even gain many new members. Think of it as an opportunity. Heck, you might even gain some respect!

Good luck.