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Old 02-08-2008, 05:13 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byamcaravanner
Carol,

At 529 members your region 4 still has 3 times the members as my region 7's 177. At the same time if you look at the map it appears that in square miles your region is about 1/5 the size of mine. That means in terms of members per square mile, you've got me beat 15 to 1.
As an associate member of units in both regions I think I have some feeling for their relative demographics. Region 4 was enormously populous in the 60's and 70's with the result that many members in Region 4 are very old. This inevitably results in a significant loss of members every year.

My impression is that the membership of Region 7, although smaller, is, on average, significantly younger--so we have a chance of keeping them longer.

See you up the road,
Nuvi
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Old 02-08-2008, 05:16 PM   #122
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My impression is that the membership of Region 7, although smaller, is, on average, significantly younger--so we have a chance of keeping them longer.
I would agree that I am significantly younger than a very old person. LOL!
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Old 02-08-2008, 05:25 PM   #123
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I would agree that I am significantly younger than a very old person. LOL!
But are you average--that's the question!
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Old 02-08-2008, 10:43 PM   #124
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4 pages later - and more statistics - and they are not painting a very nice picture.

Looking at those "net" Region stats is a bit on the scary side.

You see where is the +/- stats so that you can really get the health of not only the WBCCI in general - but the regions and specifically the Units.

As mentioned before - a unit with a plus net membership is not 100% guaranteed to be a healthy and functional unit.

I don't think anyone is disputing that there are Units that are working hard to change - not change really but evolve with their members changing needs.

This thread is all about statistics - and these types of statistics should be coming from the WBCCI office. A good portion of the $55.00 surely is supporting the administrative operation of this organization.

The proper collection of registration statistics from Units to the Regions and then to the HQ - could certainly turn the tables quickly. In that the trouble areas can be identified quickly and HELP can be on it's way.

Speaking of Help - Where is the help to those Units that are faltering? What help could be available for them to utilize? Where are the Volunteer programs, where is the education or orientation of volunteers to run these units. Or is it just monkey see monkey do on the most part. Or move through the same process long enough and you too will fold into the "norm" or what has always been done in the past - Where are the regions to place the checks and balances on the units - to provide them with the support and education.....What are the regions for???

The mention of the org being built from the ground up is correct - but once built the direction/leadership has to come from the top and successional stages IBT to REGIONS to UNITS TO MEMBERSHIP. In the three years that I belonged to a large club I did not see any strong bond between the units to the region. Not collectively as a Region - In other words is there communication between units of the same Region - is there strength.

Identified needs and issues of the membership should be prioritized and quantified to sustain a healthy membership base. But what I have seen (on the administrative side only) is emphasis being placed on issues that have not come from the ground up but identified at the top without merit or justification..

The membership base is dwindling this is no secret however, at what rate and how severely is simply a best guess. Who is testing this base - who is measuring it's health and how?

No offense to Michaels efforts here - they are fabulous - and perhaps It would be a great service to this Club if he were to volunteer to WBCCI head office to start a committee that could actually base the statistics on FACTS.

And I will stand up and be counted - I would be honored myself to sit on that committee and work with you.

So how about it Mike - you want to work together putting a proposal together to WBCCI on what statistic parameters are needed, how to collect them, and how to extrapolate and then package to the membership as a tangible membership benefit.

I am not just talking about numbers here I am talking about research - doing exactly what Carol had mentioned in one of her posts - FOLLOW-UP to non returning members, or even the late payers (like myself).

This Clubs most valuable resource in establishing growth patterns will be based on its lost membership. It is with them that lies all the reasons for the loss...

It is a tough job to do - no one likes to call up a member that might be really upset about something - and you have to be a very diplomatic and understanding person and be a great listener! The club has to listen to its members. That is what it is here for.

We pay our dues so that the Club will LISTEN to it's members through a simple step of 1M1V concept. And this is accomplished through one voice and one ear at a time - to take the time to find out why! A member is not returning.

Then to take it one step further and - if there is something that can be done to avoid another member leaving under the same circumstances then steps should be taken to ensure that it does no happen. As well what steps could be taken to bring that member back and if possible then every effort should be made to make that happen too....at all times members should be made to feel welcome - not made to feel that they have to fit in!

NO ONE came to me and said what can we do so that we can keep your enthusiasm in the unit - they let a live wire go...is all I can say.

This last year not really belonging to a unit (on a participatory based membership) I have sat back and been a sponge on the technical side of vintage as well as the new unit side - watched how our IBT works, Watched this forum grow, watched the Airstream Inc forum fold. Watched more and more blogs come out - people are thirsty for information, The VAP, more and more forum rallies grow. See more of the caravans be cancelled, more of the WBCCI Rallies that were full - scrounge for participants. It goes on and on. There is interest out there it is just not being tapped in an efficient manner.

The way of yesteryear is not working in many organizations not just with this one - it is time to get with the times and that is as simple as this process is. Give the voice to the people and let them determine their fate. The formal and rigid protocol is finished....it has died and we are letting it hang on because we are not forward enough to change the polices quick enough.

Policy makers should be looking at policies that restrict growth and toss them out the window. This is not to be miss-interpreted as opening up to SOB that is just a silly misconception. And not just updating wording.

Membership Structure and rules need to be seriously looked at. Fix these problems and you will see the doors open to this club and members will be happier and will be able to participate at levels that may not be available to them right now.

I will put my money where my mouth is - and I am serious - I will volunteer to work on this type of committee at Regional or International level. It is not political or self serving it strictly deals with the facts. Statistics paint the true picture if collected efficiently and correctly but the next most important step of statistics is to allow the club to be educated by them.

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Old 02-09-2008, 03:11 AM   #125
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Peter,

So many great points in your post... I've chosen a few of the best to comment on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GT1963
This last year...I have sat back and been a sponge on the technical side of vintage as well as the new unit side - watched how our IBT works, Watched this forum grow, watched the Airstream Inc forum fold. Watched more and more blogs come out - people are thirsty for information, The VAP, more and more forum rallies... There is interest out there it is just not being tapped in an efficient manner.
Absolutely! this is an under-served demand. How many trailers do you see purchased, gutted and then back on eBay. I'm heartened by events like the FCU restoration rally, but we need more. There are huge numbers of folks out there that have been inspired by the many beautiful restored trailers and they long to have one of their own. Sharing our abilities will not only make this dream a reality for many, it will engender a life-long commitment to the group that helped find it for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GT1963
The way of yesteryear is not working in many organizations not just with this one - it is time to get with the times and that is as simple as this process is. Give the voice to the people and let them determine their fate. The formal and rigid protocol is finished....it has died and we are letting it hang on because we are not forward enough to change the polices quick enough.
Though we all enjoy the old fashioned simplicity inherent in the Airstream lifestyle we are accustomed to the quick action and personal interaction that todays technology provides us. I think the new Region/Unit website structure is a great tool that is not utilized to it's full potential yet, This sort of direct and immediate interaction with the membership is a key to a better future for the club.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GT1963
Policy makers should be looking at policies that restrict growth and toss them out the window. This is not to be miss-interpreted as opening up to SOB that is just a silly misconception. And not just updating wording.
Please share some specific ideas regarding current policies that restrict growth.
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Old 02-09-2008, 04:19 AM   #126
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Old 02-09-2008, 06:21 AM   #127
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2020 Long Range Planning Committee

Quote:
Originally Posted by GT1963
No offense to Michaels efforts here - they are fabulous - and perhaps It would be a great service to this Club if he were to volunteer to WBCCI head office to start a committee that could actually base the statistics on FACTS.

And I will stand up and be counted - I would be honored myself to sit on that committee and work with you.

So how about it Mike - you want to work together putting a proposal together to WBCCI on what statistic parameters are needed, how to collect them, and how to extrapolate and then package to the membership as a tangible membership benefit.
Sharon,that was a great post.WBCCI is currently in the process of doing some of the things you mentioned.Are you familiar with the 2020 Long Range Planning Committee?If not,you can get the information here,
WBCCI Forum -

I have made it known that I will be more than happy to provide the stats I have 1996-2008 for units that fit the criteria the Committee determines.


I hope that this committee is successful.Remember the 2004 survey?There were a lot of good suggestions from members that could still be used today.

I was on the Communications Committee last year and
feel that our group did make some small improvements and was a step in the right direction.

Unless the top leadership is willing to make some of these suggestions a reality it's pointless n'est pa. It sounds like it may be different with the 2020 group.I hope so.
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Old 02-09-2008, 08:19 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byamcaravanner
Sharon,
So many great points in your post... I've chosen a few of the best to comment on....
...(see my previous post where I mistakenly attributed these comments to Peter, sorry Sharon)
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Old 02-09-2008, 12:10 PM   #129
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Steve - no problem - common oversight Thanks for your kind comments.

I have gone from a really enthusiastic new member, joining the WBCCI to seeing what happens in a very large Unit - seeing the inept difference and attitude between the two facets of the Airstream product - new vs vintage and vice versa. Lived through the issues of being a MAL. Not being quite ready to travel to Rallies on a regular basis. Deciding that the type of Rallies available to me "close" by are not my cup of tea. (wishing that I had the time to start and run a new smaller unit but I am within the huge jurisdiction of one Unit - which negates the possibility of even trying - until polices are changed. I watched the 4CU and their lengthy process and politics to form a new Unit with like minded people/participants.

I don't want to "fight" to have fun - I don't want to have to justify my needs as an Airstream owner - I just want to look and participate and help where I can. My time when I have all the hours to play and really use the Club - beyond its RED NUMBERS - is when I will act in a give and take relationship.


Mike- yes I was aware of the New Committee - and perhaps I was thinking that they will take there time to scrutinize comments here which I am sure all WBCCI members do from time to time.

I don't like to be a pessimist - really I am an optimist by nature.

However, based on the past history of "Committees" their collection and resulting direction - I am sure I would be joined by many others that are a little gun shy as to expecting the results to be different than what has taken place over the past 4 years.

When I joined I immediately recognized that this Club was in a transitional stage of its development. And thought it would possibly take 5 years to see some significant changes - and I was very enthusiastic to get involved and help with the process.

So what has happened in the last 5 years?

1. Recognize the need to Assess its organization 2002-2003

2. Administer the avenue in which to collect data - Member Questionnaire 2003. (this inspired several units to implement their own questionnaires of their membership)

3. Analyze the data which usually means grass routes confirmation.
An international task force was assigned the task of analyzing the questionnaire data.

2004 - What happened to the Questionnaire content??? - We spent the year on the Name Change

4. Confirm the issues and prioritize. Which usually constitutes the formation of a 3-5-10 year plan that includes the vision statement. As well it is determined what infrastructure is needed to be in place in order to administer and implement the organization within the new plan.

2005 - Did we see this stage? No we still spent yet another year on the Name Change (2005)

Moving along to year 5

5. From here the direction is communicated to the Membership to buy into the new direction and pump them up with enthusiasm and RECRUITMENT takes place to fill the committees needed. ( I say committees because that is how this should be structured from the ground up. Where is the voice at the top or the bottom of the triangle.

2006 and 2007 Did we see the formation of Committees have we seen the new plan are we firmly planted to take steps to our new direction with this club. No we have just spent two years on branding and the MOHO issue.

Now here in the infancy of 2008 - we are finally starting back in 2003 again.

To save time perhaps they will pull the data collected 5 years ago - sorry too old.

All the data collected are ideas - they are not logistics of why the organization is not working.

Have you ever driven by an old cottage - where the foundation has crumbled. Do you try to build a new frame on top of it - NO - you tear it down and rebuild it from the BOTTOM up.

It is the Structure - that needs to be addressed - not the ideas we all have on how to have fun in our units. We have to be able to function within the organization. The structure should be strong but invisible and seamless to its membership.

IBT Region Unit - this three tier structure is the basic concept - but how it interacts and works together is not cooperative. The by-laws make the positions and terms restrictive, turnover in positions, type of positions, Committees that are in place are dated and not being utilized. The Intra Club system is sorry - pathetic - and lacks hugely in integration with the overall Organization. There is no consistency and educational aspects within the huge Volunteer infrastructure of this organization.

All the issues that people bring up through these threads are idealistic band-aids just as the 2020 committee.

I am glad to see that this committee has at least narrowed the field in their search to identify issues - primarily targeted at membership. But it will soon shift to the "ideas" instead of the cause of the membership problems.

Structure again - it is all to do with structure and how each piece of wood fits with the next in order to make it stand up. Think timbre frame.

Simple but as strong as a fort that will outlast flimsy framing (short cuts poor materials and quick systems) by 100's of years.

Steve you had asked what restrictive areas in our by-laws I would have to go and spend some serious time to give specifics - but I like to deal with concepts instead.

You have 500 potential members. What percentage of those members will pay $55.00 to join in the present state of affairs.

Now change the membership fee structure.

Base fee - $ + 1 Vote
Levels of membership based on involvement.
From affiliate level - interested but can not join in or travel - or may not even have an Airstream trailer yet.
Define the participation levels and assign the fees accordingly.

So you get 100 at $55 =$5500.00

Do you look at the other 400 members as a lost revenue $22000.00 NO

Get them on board even at $20 each for an affiliate based idea - you have $8000.00 and a 400% increased membership. When they are ready to participate more they will pay the fees that draw more benefits....

Structure and logistics.....

Which brings me to this crazy Intra-Club system the WBCCI is having great difficulty with.

Vintage is a Program - as is all the other Intra clubs. These should all be under ONE ROOF.

the emphasis at WBCCI has simply been the International Rally. 90% of the efforts and I would say our fees - goes towards. This is wrong!!!

This would be like an Provincial sport placing all their efforts on the Provincial Championship and nothing else. All there staff time, all their committees all their board time. With all other programs and services being minimally administered to get through.

Well where would the player development be, the officiating development, the coaching development, the leagues the tournaments, the local associations training and development, and the Regions too, as they are the stepping stone to the Provincials.

It is a simple structure that works with way more volunteers - but those volunteers are not taxed to their limits - costs are reduced - less travel by higher level volunteers.

And hey were are the days where people "volunteered" - volunteer without pay.......novel idea - but we humans have become greedy always wanting something for nothing but will give nothing unless we get something in return. And now as service and tangible benefits seem to be lost - we expect money for our efforts to pay for our gas, our phone, our meals and the list goes on...but time are changing - how many of you forum rally organizers got paid???? NONE

So this 2020 Committee - if it had meat - it would have spent its first effort developing an infrastructure to support its huge task. At best - one member per region - who then would call on 3 members from the region - and a liaison from each of the units. Now you have a manageable structure with a reasonable workload for all and things will GET DONE!

The top committee should place their emphasis on the process and the administration to the lower tiers. It provides the guidance and leadership - it does not DO the work. It helps the work get done. The regions are the power train and we are not using them as they should be. They are not just the voice to the IBT - they are the voice to the UNIT. They are the workers - and yet they are not afforded the Voice in a proper format.

Anyway I have babbled enough - I see yet another 3-5 years at this rate - so maybe by the time I retire in 7 years I will be in rare form to implement finally some of the new plan that will hopefully be in place by then. Hopefully I will be looking at a whole new structure that allows for growth and development of all its membership and hopefully there will not be this silly dividing line between vintage and new and that both will participate in Rallies of all kinds.

What do I need to pay $20 dollars to be a vintage for - I own an airstream period - I would rather my $20 dollars go to the WBCCI so that they can run their club properly and include Vintage Events just as they do for all other events.

It is like a motor home pulling a trailer for one person

I will still put my money where my mouth is and volunteer in the administration - but there is no avenue available - I must go through the ranks of learning what not to do in an organization. There are no adhoc committees, there are no intra club committees at the regional level - just the big wig seat that sits on the International level.

HMMM so I just went to WBCCI and the live links under Membership benefits are:
Discounted Camping Rates
Caravans


And the member Intraclubs would be???? Man this is what gets me going - these are the programs of this club and they are non existant - and to get to the vintage intraclub they are a completely separate entity - so attract the horse to your trough and then don't put water in it - that does not make a lot of sense to me.
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Old 02-09-2008, 01:15 PM   #130
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Old 02-09-2008, 02:01 PM   #131
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The view from a new Airstreamer:

WBCCI = 2 dinosaurs mating in a posh expense account-paid stateroom on the Titanic.

My 2₵ is above.

My $55 is still in my pocket.
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Old 02-09-2008, 02:21 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N2XBW
The view from a new Airstreamer:

WBCCI = 2 dinosaurs mating in a posh expense account-paid stateroom on the Titanic.

My 2₵ is above.

My $55 is still in my pocket.

I can understand why some people feel that way.Really,I can.Remember,the Titanic was the best of the best but history shows it was steered in the wrong direction.

For me,my $55 annual fee pays for itself many times over.
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Old 02-09-2008, 02:39 PM   #133
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Streamer 23 wrote:
"I can understand why some people feel that way.Really,I can.Remember,the Titanic was the best of the best but history shows it was steered in the wrong direction."


Add to that faulty steering rudder design, shoddy build of the hull, and the blind arrogance of those in charge. The analogy seems to hold well, n'est pas?
-JW
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Old 02-09-2008, 02:43 PM   #134
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...The analogy seems to hold well, n'est pas?
-JW
except the food was better on the big boat...

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Old 02-09-2008, 03:19 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT1963

Vintage is a Program - as is all the other Intra clubs. These should all be under ONE ROOF.

What do I need to pay $20 dollars to be a vintage for - I own an airstream period - I would rather my $20 dollars go to the WBCCI so that they can run their club properly and include Vintage Events just as they do for all other events.
Actually, VAC is, for all practical purposes, a separate organization run by enthusiastic volunteers. For example, VAC puts on its own rallies and publishes its own magazine--which compare very favorably with WBCCI's efforts.

What does VAC have in common with WBCCI? Insurance, basically.

Some VAC members talk about separating from WBCCI, and some IBT members would like to get rid of VAC. Not a whole lot in common there, really.

See you down the road,
Nuvi
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Old 02-09-2008, 04:37 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuvite-F
...What does VAC have in common with WBCCI? Insurance, basically...
sorry nuvi, but this is ONLY a tiny piece of the answer...

it might be how many o.t.c. members wish it to be.

this thread goes into MUCH greater detail on this issue...

especially in posts #27 and # 28...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...nits-9308.html

then there is this thread, that also covers o.t.c. ground...

lots of good posts and even some funnymakefunofthebunny posts...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...why-24599.html

while this one deals with joining the wb'/otc, vs the forums in a more general way...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286/fence-20747.html

and then there is the 'lost boys' thread...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...ack-33989.html

may the circle be unbroken, by and by lord, by and by....

cheers
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Old 02-09-2008, 04:38 PM   #137
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Hi Peter

I am curious what you found wrong with the Ontario Unit? It is one of the units that is maintianing it's membership, in fact it has for 20 years. Have you attended many rallies?

Thanks for your comments.

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Old 02-09-2008, 04:46 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew T
Hi Peter

I am curious what you found wrong with the Ontario Unit? It is one of the units that is maintianing it's membership, in fact it has for 20 years. Have you attended many rallies?

Thanks for your comments.

Andrew

I'll give you the Ontario Unit's numbers to review,

1996-129
1997-149
1998-141
1999-156
2000-161
2001-164
2002-173
2003-185
2004-183
2005-189
2006-166
2007-149
2008-163

Ontario,covering such a large geographic area has always had me wondering why there is not more than 1 unit there.
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Old 02-09-2008, 04:47 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuvite-F

Some VAC members talk about separating from WBCCI, and some IBT members would like to get rid of VAC. Not a whole lot in common there, really.

See you down the road,
Nuvi
Yes I know

The Vac has evolved because of the huge interest and the lack of organization from the WBCCI. Sort of like re-inventing the wheel....But they have grown so independent now that I doubt that they will be taken under the wing properly and will possibly continue to takes steps to become separate.

So now we will have two classes of Airstream participants. Old and not new. then the not so old or not so new will start to moan that there is nothing for them.

I have never understood why Just vintage - when it could be all airstreams with a vintage section so that all can enjoy. Open house - is not just for vintage - all can open their doors and many do. It is not just the 40/50/60/70/ - but there is no reason we could not show and tell for the 80/90 and 00's as well heck in two years the 2010's will be rolling off the line - just as We open our Backyard to the World for the Winter Olympics in BC.

Anyone want to do a cross country caravan to the Olympics

I love the vintage - but to pay $20.00 for a newsletter - is just a bit over the top for me.

I don't know what the Ontario Unit is up to these days - but they sure had a hate on for vintage when I joined back in 04 and carried that attitude till I left in 06. (all to do with politics and how the Rallies are assigned and hosted - a huge weird set up that is- maybe they have changed and maybe they have some new blood seeing the same issues as we are today - who knows - not about to find out too quick)
So for now I shall remain with the WDCU as a homeless MAL taken in by a Unit that is pretty progressive...and I keep saying if I can get out to one of their Rallies - I surely too will get my money's worth - beyond the big Red Numbers

But one point I will make - a voice within has more clout than a voice outside. So if nothing else I keep up my membership as my support for the cause....
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Old 02-09-2008, 05:16 PM   #140
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2005 22' International CCD
Buckhorn , Ontario
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streamer23

Ontario,covering such a large geographic area has always had me wondering why there is not more than 1 unit there.
One of my points exactly.

Again though where are the - numbers - how many members in and out in the same year - with out that information it does not tell you anything of the health of that unit.

What I found wrong - was expressed to their Executive.

It was simply administration - do not rock the boat attitude - do not change things that have been done a certain way since the cows were let out of the barn.

The unit is huge - thus the hosting issues are huge thus facilities needed are huge and all this makes for a huge and not very personal Rally....pockets of people - cliques of old friends that have grown with the unit.

We went to two Rallies - and there was not a kid to be found - it was like the Chitty Chitty Bang Bang movie. We never got to a shake down or Rendezvous which apparently were smaller events - half of the norm being about 45 trailers that is still a big event.

To get involved - the words that kept coming my way was host a rally host a rally, host a rally. So yea I looked at the idea I was pumped - but with a unit that size the hosting is booked almost 3 years in advance - so yep I will sit still with my enthusiasm and wait 3 years - gees I could be dead by then!

But joking aside - it was too big, did not embrace people with vintage trailers and we were the youngest at 43 at the time we joined. Two families with young children joined the following year and one family was great and really jumped in - but the big movement is in the western province or the Eastern - we happen to be in the middle.

I presented an idea to re-org the province and I was looked at as if I had horns coming out my head. I asked to help in all sorts of areas and was told some one else was doing it or that there was no position for it. And that I had to get on the executive. I did not want to go there yet and I did not want to wipe tables and serve muffins either. I wanted to help with by-laws, with directories, with desktop - but not take over a newsletter (I was too new and did not know a lot about the organization) But I had a lot of experience and enthusiasm - which they (or some) saw as a threat - to radical - to young and well that is it end of story.....I have been asked why several times from local to regional - when I give my reasons I am met with silence.

But this is not really the time or place to speak of these things....and i am sure I have said it all before in years past.

Gosh I remember a thread where I took strips off those people who bashed WBCCI. And also remember thinking ill of those Ontario Members who joined the WDCU - but now after almost 5 years I am where they are - and that is sad!!! (but not sad when you are having fun and find a place where you fit)
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