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Old 02-02-2008, 05:57 AM   #61
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2air

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
also add another 10-30 to this count...

since it does not include new PALS (people/participants/party'rs at large) joining in nov/dec...

or those of US that intentionally re-up late to avoid the directory.

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Well 2air it seems that any mention of MAL's will bring a response from you.Yes you can add 10-30 that have joined up in Nov-Dec but if the recent trend is any indication you can then subtract approx 9-27 from that total.As you know there are various reasons for this as some PAL's end up joining units(WCDU and 4CU come to mind along with others)or leaving the club altogether.

It's funny,I have a lot of PAL's that are regular unit members.

Interesting that you would intentially re-up late to avoid the directory.A man of mystery.I guess I will have to adjust my PAL total each year to accomodate you.

You show a lot of energy and passion for the club.It would be great if we all could work together towards a common goal.

keep on truckin rastaman
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Old 02-02-2008, 07:34 AM   #62
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If and when MALs organize as an official sector and have a vote, I am voting 2Air for president! He has been a voice for MALs since I can remember. I still think MALs as a body could be treated as any other geographically based unit with a minor changes to the current criteria. There are more people hitting the roads and more wishing to retain at large status. Not just sure which members of WDCU live in the jurisdiction anyway. The internet should allow many new aspects of WBCCI than when it was formerly structured so long ago.
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Old 02-02-2008, 07:44 AM   #63
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I live 32 miles from the White house, I am in the WDCU, Does that count as within the jurisdiction? There are many WDCU members that live even closer than me.
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Old 02-02-2008, 08:12 AM   #64
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It sure does count! No what I meant or should have said is that many members are from other areas as we see in Paul's breakdown, i.e., 7 from over here in Michigan, etc. So theorhetically speaking members can live all over and still be part of one unit and vote and conduct business online so MALs could have a share too. When I see MALs say they want a local unit rather than other unit members say MALs should join a unit then it would hold more weight to me that MAL is a temporary status but that is not the way it was or is, I think. It is an option that has always been extended to WBCCI members. Though it seems to be regarded often in derision as not full fledged and an subordinate class. Some have left their MAL status to get the vote, exercising unit membership as a sort of legal loophole circumvention, while some remain firm in the status and would like to see voting priveleges extended to their chosen status. Different strokes is all, but I think accomodation could and should be made for a group the size of MALs, imo. There is lots of energy exerted to perform within the given structure but the structure still needs to be updated too.
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Old 02-02-2008, 08:31 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streamer23

Total WBCCI Membership

2008-6418 members(-135 members)
2007-6553 members

There were 2 units that appeared in the 2007 Directory that have folded

WBCCI Unit #132 Cadiz Highlands Ohio
WBCCI Unit #139 North Alabama Unit
This has been a very informative and entertaining thread.

To me, these are the numbers to watch. Not because they are negative, but because some of the numbers as I understand have been a trend for several years now.

I would also again point out that Airstream is selling more units, from what I've heard, than it ever has before. From what I recall they build something around +/- 2000 trailers a year during this high demand period over the past 4-5 years. Anyone know where all these new Airstreamers are going? Clearly a large number overall are not coming to the WBCCI. Why is that, especially when in 2003, they gave a free year membership away? If I recall those retention numbers from this offering were so low that they canceled the program the next year.

It's not all doom and gloom granted, because even at 2% loss each year, if that stays consistent, it would take over 30 years for the club to disappear......but that is only if it stays at 2% annually. I don't follow this all that closely anymore (mostly since I'm no longer a member), so someone else could chime in if over the past 5 year it's been 2%.

I would say this, having just joined Moose International. WBCCI could learn a lot from this org.
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Old 02-02-2008, 08:35 AM   #66
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I think if you pay dues you should vote, plain and simple. If you pay your way, you should get a say. Maybe a new thread should be started as to how this CHANGE can be made a reality. I would be willing to help make that a reality. Do you patition your unit President? How does one get these things CHANGED? I am going to email all the officers in my unit now. I encourage everyone to email their unit officers and ask to make this a reality.
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Old 02-02-2008, 09:35 AM   #67
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With the current Robert's Rules of Order and the once a year delegates "deliberative meeting" you can not have members at large participating because there is no way for them to elect delegates to that meeting and Robert's Rules states that the delegates will follow their own best intentions as they think their members might feel. It is a hole in the bucket argument.
Direct voting is good if there is only two sides to the question or you are only voting for one or the other candidate for an office but to efficiently negociate a settlement to more complex issues require a direct interaction between the total body of the membership or the use of a representative body of the membership meeting at one location (or in cyberspace) to work out the compromises. Our current system does not work as well as it should and does not give proper voting rights to the MAL members. Propose what method you think would be better and post it here or over at the WBCCI.org website.
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Old 02-02-2008, 09:46 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
It's not all doom and gloom granted, because even at 2% loss each year, if that stays consistent, it would take over 30 years for the club to disappear......but that is only if it stays at 2% annually. I don't follow this all that closely anymore (mostly since I'm no longer a member), so someone else could chime in if over the past 5 year it's been 2%.
These figures are unofficial and approximate,it's the best that I can do.Home office would have the official numbers.

2004= -4%
2005= -0.5%
2006= -8%
2007= -5%
2008= -2%
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Old 02-02-2008, 09:54 AM   #69
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I agree with you Dwight, but proposals could be made until the cows come home or the current IBT passes over, change will not occur until they allow it and recent indications for that are not favorable. Was there not something about the IBT trying to remand constitutional options to take power away from the units in which if they were all united in thought could bypass IBT's jurisdiction? Do they not obstruct motions that are not to their liking with points of order? Do they not require that nominations for office be qualified by their commitee with no clear slate of what those qualifications would be? I used to think it was a matter of not knowing what the mebership is clamoring for and that effort and communication would rectify that but I now believe it is a matter of retention of power and deliberate measures to avoid addressing that which is proven to be of no priority to the existing ruling class. I have to agree with Leo's summation of the friends and family plan. If you have a great unit or intra club and do not look further or delve too deeply you can have fun with your own friends as the IBT can without being concerned about the larger picture.
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Old 02-02-2008, 10:05 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwightdi
With the current Robert's Rules of Order and the once a year delegates "deliberative meeting" you can not have members at large participating because there is no way for them to elect delegates to that meeting and Robert's Rules states that the delegates will follow their own best intentions as they think their members might feel. It is a hole in the bucket argument.
Direct voting is good if there is only two sides to the question or you are only voting for one or the other candidate for an office but to efficiently negociate a settlement to more complex issues require a direct interaction between the total body of the membership or the use of a representative body of the membership meeting at one location (or in cyberspace) to work out the compromises. Our current system does not work as well as it should and does not give proper voting rights to the MAL members. Propose what method you think would be better and post it here or over at the WBCCI.org website.
I once heard an interview with Wally Byam. He was talking about the organization of a caravan. In the interview he said that each member votes and the minority always follows the majority. That is a democracy plain and simple. Everyone has a voice and everyone has a vote. The present system is a republic. We elect a few to speak for the whole. How hard would it be to send every member a ballot to vote on an issue? What is the objection there? WE are the club. WE pay our due to be a part of the club. If WE want the system to CHANGE, WE can do it and do not let anyone tell you other wise.
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Old 02-02-2008, 10:11 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 62overlander
I once heard an interview with Wally Byam. He was talking about the organization of a caravan. In the interview he said that each member votes and the minority always follows the majority. That is a democracy plain and simple. Everyone has a voice and everyone has a vote. The present system is a republic. We elect a few to speak for the whole. How hard would it be to send every member a ballot to vote on an issue? What is the objection there? WE are the club. WE pay our due to be a part of the club. If WE want the system to CHANGE, WE can do it and do not let anyone tell you other wise.

That just makes too much sense. If only it was that easy.
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Old 02-02-2008, 10:17 AM   #72
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The NEU increased membership

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickandsandi
Thanks Mike!
Hey Rick,

No worries, we did grow our membership. We just had a number of renewals and newbies come in after the WBCCI Directory deadline. Also a bunch of our long time (though not active) members retired from the WBCCI/ NEU this year. I think our "regular" membership stands at 112 or 113. Our Treasurer can confirm for you.

For folks who are not part of the NEU: Our club is not really concerned about the number of members, we care about having active members which is running at about 65% of our total membership (this includes affiliates, we've got some affiliates who are more active in the NEU than in their regular unit). By active we mean members who attend two or more events a year. I guess Leon and I would be considered over-active members, I don't think we missed an NEU event in 2007.

I know it's important to the WBCCI to have membership growth. But this is not the only thing that is needed. Active members, not just paper members are needed to insure the WBCCI lives on.
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Old 02-02-2008, 11:46 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streamer23
2004= -4%
2005= -0.5%
2006= -8%
2007= -5%
2008= -2%
Interesting...thanks for posting this.

So, if these are even remotely near acutal (taking into consideration a +/- factor as this is not scientific in any way), then what I am hearing is that on average, about 3.9% is what is being lost annually (within the last 5 year window). I wonder how many of these departing were from "natural causes" vs. how many have simply left? The real question also is, where are the nearly 10k (2000 new units/yr for last 5 years) new Airstream owners? That number too high? Then where are the 5000 (1000 new units/yr for the last 5 years) new Airstream owners?

If this trend continues for the most part on course as it has, then it may be a fair estimate that 10 years from now, 40% of the current membership could be gone. In 20 years, nearly 80% of the membership could be gone unless there is some stop to the exodus by means of both some kind of recruitment or rentention. Could the remaining 20% left in 20 years be the units we are talking about today that have been bucking the trend of the overall org?

Could this mean that the *glory* days of WBCCI are behind it and that these hanfuls of units become really it?
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Old 02-03-2008, 10:28 AM   #74
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3 top percentage growth units

Here is a 5 year breakdown of the 3 units showing the top percentage gains this year in the annual directory.These are only numbers and take them for what they are worth.They are presented for informational purposes only.

Unit#157 Sierra Nevada Unit

2004- 7 members
2005-14 members
2006-23 members
2007-26 members
2008-35 members

Unit#170 Washington DC Unit

2004-56 members
2005-66 members
2006-67 members
2007-69 members
2008-100 members

Unit#172 Texas Highland Lakes Unit

2004-40 members
2005-45 members
2006-41 members
2007-46 members
2008-59 members
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Old 02-03-2008, 10:45 AM   #75
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lies, damn lies, and statistics...

Quote:
Originally Posted by myboyburt
...Also a bunch of our long time (though not active) members retired from the WBCCI/ NEU this year.
I figured that had to be the case...I couldn't believe that we are only "+1" from last year. At every rally, there seems to be at least one new member joining...how could we only be up 1??

The numbers don't tell the whole story.
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Old 02-03-2008, 11:17 AM   #76
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Quote:
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I figured that had to be the case...I couldn't believe that we are only "+1" from last year. At every rally, there seems to be at least one new member joining...how could we only be up 1??

The numbers don't tell the whole story.
It is interesting how different our club is even since Leon and I joined in 2003. The older, long time members have mostly retired from trailering and the WBCCI. We (baby boomers) are in the leadership positions and we have changed the face and direction of the NEU. Our new members are mostly in their 30s to 50s and camp with kids. How cool is that? I believe this is because Airstream's new product line attracts younger, hipper, RV buyers. The new Safari Sport models should bring us more singles, and even younger first time trailer buying families. Bottom line is the NEU is growing. In fact I just read our latest club newsletter and saw that we brought on 5 new members in January. Pretty darn good when you realize it's winter and no one is really camping here in New England.
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Old 02-03-2008, 11:43 AM   #77
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Must be all that deliberate living in the North East and their harsh winters. The older ones are really hanging on here in Michigan, probably because they winter in Dade City or get whisked away by SkyMed.

Michelle I always enjoy looking at your unit's activities. Lots of fun things to do. Good job with your unit.
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Old 02-03-2008, 12:06 PM   #78
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Quote:
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Must be all that deliberate living in the North East and their harsh winters. The older ones are really hanging on here in Michigan, probably because they winter in Dade City or get whisked away by SkyMed.

Michelle I always enjoy looking at your unit's activities. Lots of fun things to do. Good job with your unit.
Thanks Carol!

We have so many events planned for 2008 that I think I'll need to clone myself to be able to attend them all. And the NEU has a few Renegade Rallies in the works too (non WBCCI). Our dance card for 2008 is wicked full, yippee!

Oh, the NEU loves it's older, long time members and we are sad when they retire. I think our unit may be a bit different than others because some years ago the long time members / leaders decided it was time to pass the torch of leadership to the few (at the time) younger members of the club. Though it was not always easy for them they adjusted to and accepted (mostly) the NEU's evolution to what it is today.
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Old 02-03-2008, 01:05 PM   #79
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MIKE - super stats - you always come through every year...but do you remember my question of 2004 - with member stats - is a unit holding their own when they loose almost as many as they have join each year???

i.e a unti has 100 - they loose 20 but 25 new join so their stat would show - as plus 5 - making them what "great" at retaining members????

Sorry not sure this method actually tells the health of the WBCCI or it's units..

The WDCU is a catch all for MAL's who want more than being a MAL - like they want a vote for the same money that others are paying.

It is in its core and its reputation a great Unit! - and they certainly give us MAL's that want to make a statement a chance to do so.

But surely this new committee should be looking at the decline - and retension issues...I think it is time for smaller and more personal units (available through the polices 15 member minimum) but - with manageable procedures without having to go through such protocol to form a group of people have to have a full fledged Executive incorporate and the works just to collect and forward fees to WBCCI head office and to vote on By-laws and polices. And such political trife to get your stars and strips so to speak - flags and unit names etc.

Perhaps they should be looking at how well the forum rallies work. They gather have fun and even come up with t-s or stickers, and all sorts of different neat things that do not take 2 years to get a rubber stamp or what have you. Some step up to organize and the rest pitch in and it is always a great time.

Perhaps WBCCI could look into different types of memberships to better suit its changing demographics and introduce affiliate programs - affilate units - fees based on services required of different size units etc.

Anway - I think since these forums started and the now huge collective voice on both sides of the WBCCI issue has strengthened the club through osmosis. And it will be a matter of time as the 20 somethings become 30 somethings the 40 somethings become 50 somethings and the 60 somethings become the 70 somethings and we all just evolve through life with our Airstreams......

Each will do what we can when we can and have fun while it lasts -

Just like Mike - I would say over the years you have had an absolute ball with your statistics - I remember you telling the story of making notes of all the airstreams that made it out to Eastern Canada and the Big Red numbers you used to write down and track their visits - just so interesting in deed You are a true Wally Enthusiast and I congratulate and thank you for sharing your hobby with us all.
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Old 02-03-2008, 01:25 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myboyburt
Thanks Carol!

We have so many events planned for 2008 that I think I'll need to clone myself to be able to attend them all. And the NEU has a few Renegade Rallies in the works too (non WBCCI). Our dance card for 2008 is wicked full, yippee!

Oh, the NEU loves it's older, long time members and we are sad when they retire. I think our unit may be a bit different than others because some years ago the long time members / leaders decided it was time to pass the torch of leadership to the few (at the time) younger members of the club. Though it was not always easy for them they adjusted to and accepted (mostly) the NEU's evolution to what it is today.
MBB

I've often wondered what happens to me when I'm at the age where hauling my trailer and all that's involved with that becomes too great an issue and I'm forced to "retire" from something I love so much.

It's neat that your predecessor members were willing to pass the torch to see the unit continue its growth and maintain its relevance for the active members. Does your unit do anything to keep those older folks engaged yet in some way? If so, it would be interesting to know what and how well that works.

Thanks,

Barry
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