WBCCI - One Man's Negative Opinion

[Dakota's Dad]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

Good post, Jim. It reminds me that others have said the IBT is run like the army by ex-military. If I wanted to join the army, I'd have done so 45 or 50 years ago, certainly not now.

Gene

However, if you wanted to lead 10-100 campers anywhere, for more then a couple days, Let alone for weeks on end, you would have to run it like the military. (and I say this from, shall we say, a very knowledgeable view)

That is EXACTLY what WB learned. No matter what the event, if it includes multiple movements of equipment or people, it needs to be run that way. We have done bike rides where the organizers where setting up and serving breakfast to 1000's of cyclists, loading their camping gear, moving it to the next nights site, laying it out for pickup, setting up showers, making and serving dinner, for days on end. Believe me, it takes a steel will and lots of planning and scheduling to make it work.

[Gene]

It's true, Dakota, that a caravan or mass bike ride needs to be run with some military precision, but the organization should not. If the organizer of a caravan goes overboard, then you have petty tyranny and you can't lead if no one will follow. Even a general does not have absolute authority because he has to know what his troops are willing to do and if he pushes them too hard, disaster can ensue.

As a historical note, when pioneers were coming west, they hired a wagon master. The wagon master would require everyone to sign an agreement (usually called a "constitution", something we would call bylaws or a contract) that everyone would follow his orders. These people were getting into something few, if any, had a clue what they were getting into. As such, absolute authority of the wagon master was required. However, even that could be a bad thing because sometimes the wagon master was a fool, and the pioneers would revolt, perhaps getting themselves into more trouble.

A caravan today in the US would not need such absolute authority in the leader. One to Tierra del Fuego would. Each situation requires a different level of the division of authority between the leader and the led.

Gene

[Dakota's Dad]

I guess where I was going with that thought was that many of those up at the national level, were in the WBCCI back in the big caravan days, and may have carried some of that mentality with them.

(Let nothing I have said here, or anywhere, lead anyone to think I am "defending" the current status quo of the club leadership, We are members, because the local unit seems like good people, and if in the future it doesn't work out, we see no harm)

[Frank's Trailer Works]

Odd thing about this thread is that most of the posters are not club members nor have been. Some that rite code had been that in past days of ye old. But for the most part most of the negative posters have not. Another interesting thing is that the same people post on every WBCCI thread. If they hate the club so much, why follow the WBCCI threads so closely. Why lambaste something others enjoy so much. How is this "playing nice?"

I wonder how this thread would have gone if Chief's first contact had been a Unit like FCU, NEU, or the WDCU. I wonder if his world would be different now.

Yes the club is in trouble. Yes there are serious flaws. Some of us are trying hard to get things going in the right direction again.

An interesting fact: in my unit, the WDCU, 95% of the members are also Airforums members. Close to all of them are supporting members.

So now solve the world by telling me how wrong I am....

[JimGolden]

Well, for what it's worth, and I'm only partway through the book, Wally did say that they held democratic meetings to decide what would be done the next day. So it wasn't like he was Der Fuhrer or the Supreme Dictator or anything like that. Like if they had to choose between one of two routes to get to one of two destinations the next day, he would get on the bullhorn, call a meeting in the center (they took to parking the "outfits" in big circles, tow vehicle pointing in) of the circle. He would lay out the scenario, lay out the options, they'd all discuss it, then take a vote. Whatever the majority chose is what they did. Wally organized the whole thing, but he wasn't the whip cracking tyrant. He just learned from his past endeavors and tried to be more efficient with the next batch.

Another example of this is that on the first Caravan, everybody paid in some dues and that was to cover generators, extra tow cars, and some other services such as that. Well, the gensets were sized to run everybody's lights, but many insisted on running their electric refrigerators (didn't have the LP ones yet) and that caused them to burn up the gensets. People then got mad. They burnt up several tow cars. In short, people got mad when the services they'd paid for (at least thought they'd paid for) fell short. Wally got tired of hearing all the guff, so on the next one, he said "No services. You bring all you need, expect nothing from anybody." Now in reality everyone would help each other out, but it was a goodwill kind of thing. He got rid of the expectation that he could be the miracle worker out in the jungle.

Oddly enough, on that first caravan, he basically scavenged his own trailer so much to provide spare parts for other people that he wound up abandoning it along the side of the road in Guatemala. He said a couple years later, he received an order from Guatemala for a bunch of replacement parts that strangely coincided with the parts he'd robbed off that coach. Looks like somebody rebuilt that one

The blue berets came about from necessity as well. Most of you probably already know this story...but basically early on he'd get his group out and about and he couldn't tell who was with him and who wasn't. He liked the looks of the hats they wore in France and so adopted them as the "badge" of the club for the simple reason that you don't see that many people out and about wearing blue berets, so it made it easy to spot the people traveling with you in a crowd.

All in all, it's very practical the stuff he came up with.

Now if they've twisted all of that stuff to something else, then I guess all bets are off. But, at least in the context of big caravans going places enmasse, I can see where the rules and regs have their place. At least those that apply to logistics of large groups....the stuff about which jacket to wear to which occasion and how to fly the flags...I haven't gotten to that part of the book yet. But, I've still got 2/3 to go.

It really is a good book. I got lucky and scored an almost affordable copy on Amazon. Been looking for a year.....

see ya on the road,

[PeeWee]

Originally Posted by 62overlander

Odd thing about this thread is that most of the posters are not club members nor have been. Some that rite code had been that in past days of ye old. But for the most part most of the negative posters have not. Another interesting thing is that the same people post on every WBCCI thread. If they hate the club so much, why follow the WBCCI threads so closely. Why lambaste something others enjoy so much. How is this "playing nice?"

I wonder how this thread would have gone if Chief's first contact had been a Unit like FCU, NEU, or the WDCU. I wonder if his world would be different now.

Yes the club is in trouble. Yes there are serious flaws. Some of us are trying hard to get things going in the right direction again.

An interesting fact: in my unit, the WDCU, 95% of the members are also Airforums members. Close to all of them are supporting members.

So now solve the world by telling me how wrong I am....

Frank,

Good advice, good words and a better understanding of the situtation facing Airforums and the WBCCI.

Thank you!

Dale "Pee Wee" Schwamborn

[robandzoe]

Thanks Frank! Here's to our fun unit and all the fun we have!!! like we will next summer as well... lots of great rallies lined up - especially the WBBB. Yeah, I was down pretty hard on the club this summer... but spending time with my unit members has put everything into perspective once more.... Go Wally!

[wheel interested]

I can't solve the world, I am still working on solving why the same people post to ask why the same people post. It's like looking in the mirror with a mirror. I don't think it ever does end.

It's good non-members post, they need to be listened to and courted with a difference to be offered next time around. It's good members post they need to be heard and allowed to express themselves.

There was a thread about why did you leave. I had left my local unit but my posting my experience in that thread brought down severe criticism from members of my former unit and I was told I was never a real Airstreamer. Well I am still in the club, even a member of that former unit and I guess I still don't feel like a real Airstreamer. Oh not because we haven't owned and do own Airstreams. Not because we haven't gone thousands of miles to Internationals and Region and local rallies because we have. It isn't because we haven't paid our dues each year. It is because we don't fit the mold. But to be honest we don't want to fit the mold. We want the mold numbered and retired and we want the club to start opening up to all Airstreamers and points of view and to listen more than it tries to silence with self admiration and mutual appreciation and get busy on retaining and recruiting. This thread could be the best promotional tool you have had the opportunity to seize. How did you do? Did you win someone over or did you defend yourself brag on your self and tell the posters they haven't a right to say or the proper attitude to say it? Did you validate the posters' opinions and feelings or did you use their bad experience to pump your own selves up even higher?

[Gene]

Originally Posted by 62overlander

Odd thing about this thread is that most of the posters are not club members nor have been. Some that rite code had been that in past days of ye old. But for the most part most of the negative posters have not. Another interesting thing is that the same people post on every WBCCI thread. If they hate the club so much, why follow the WBCCI threads so closely. Why lambaste something others enjoy so much. How is this "playing nice?"

Yes the club is in trouble. Yes there are serious flaws. Some of us are trying hard to get things going in the right direction again.

Frank, I think you tend to see things in black and white. Nobody has said they "hate" the club. We follow this because we do care and would like to see the club change. Quite a few who have posted are members and others who have not been members of it have learned a lot about it by following the threads.

What is "negative" is in the eyes of the beholder. When you went to the international in Madison, your posts about it were livid about parking. That seems to make you a "negative" poster by your standards.

I'm glad you have realized the club is in "trouble". Your posts a year ago only saw great things about the WBCCI and now you appear to have learned something about the problems. That will help you identify issues and help to change the WBCCI.

Gene

[Frank's Trailer Works]

Gene I am a man who calls it like I see it. You on the other hand are a man who has based his facts on what others have told him. No, I am not playing nice now, and I don't care. Gene cannot help himself but comment on the WBCCI. He is somewhat of a club stalker. If you look under his posts you will find he has commented on 100% of EVERY WBCCI thread there is. He has done this by reading what others say and calling it fact. He has never even been to a WBCCI rally. Chief on the other hand I can understand his reaction. He has been to a WBCCI and it was far from desirable. Had my first experience been what his was, I probably would be talking differently right now.

My black and white experience has been that EVERY rally I have been to has been a WBCCI rally. My experience has been that EVERY one, with exception of the International, has been exactly as I hear the Airforum ones described. My experience is that my kids are bummed that the season is over for us. But I talk from experience, not from what I read.

[craftsman]

WBCCI reminds me of what's happening with the government and AIG. You can't pay the same people who created the mess to fix it and be stupid enough to allow them to keep their jobs and pay them bonuses. They'll agree to make changes and then it's business as usual . They don't know anything else. I don't think anyone actually believes either AIG or WBCCI is going to change in any real way. What's really needed is a new club and I'm sure someday someone will start one.

[RoverOwner]

We joined the WBCCI about 5 years ago when we originally bought our first trailer. I loved the idea of attending functions with other folks that were passionate about the Airstream brand. We joined a unit based on our geographic location, went to a "luncheon", and quickly decided that it was not for us. No hard feelings, just not our cup of tea. We used the trailer to camp, and eventually sold the trailer a few years later when we decided to do other things.

Aluminitis acted up again a few years ago, and we ended up buying a trailer to restore. I was lucky enough to be friends with Rob Baker from way back, he introduced me to Frank Yensan, and because of those guys I decided to give the WBCCI another shot, this time with the WDCU. Laurie and I have met so many wonderful people through this club that we cannot imagine not being a part of it. Sure, the WBCCI has it's many faults, but the positives far outweigh the negatives for us. The club will change in the future. One look at the membership numbers and financial reports tell me that it must change. We intend to be a part of that change, and if it takes 20 years to effect that change, so be it. We'll be 60 years old then and probably looking at actual caravans, maybe even planning on joining a few. Once the majority of club members feel that they are getting value for their dues, membership numbers will stop dropping off. Once those same satisfied club members tell their friends how much fun the WBCCI is, the membership numbers will climb.

The first step towards increasing the perception of value is to completely revamp the Blue Beret. For many, it is their only contact with the club. Turn it into a real magazine, a magazine worth reading. Have it come to our mailboxes monthly, or every other month. It is not too expensive, especially if the club stops losing money hand over fist with their very poor management. Losing tens of thousands of dollars hosting an "International Rally" is simply rediculous, especially when the rank and file members who attend can do nothing but complain about the actual rally for months afterward. Perception of value. That's the name of the game.

[2airishuman]

good post carol, you wandering mal-feas-ant!

Originally Posted by wheel interested

...There was a thread about why did you leave...

not sure if this is the 1 2 which u refer C...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...ack-33989.html

but past/former and current members who TRIED to explain or express a view on 'leaving' had their 'views' minimized there too.

there was a poll tied to the name change nonsense about leaving too..

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...ave-30841.html

and a brouhaha about former members squatting at wb' events

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...ies-46503.html
_______________________

one thing is clear THIS FORUM allows a LOT of stuff to be expressed and AIRED about the dinosaur club...

THIS FORUM has provided FREE webspace and support of wb' units and their websites...

and THIS FORUM has allowed wb'er to promote their rallez and dreamy unit experiences,

Unfettered and ad nauseam, often scabbing from forum events to self promote wb stuff.

and allthewhile lambasting ne1 who reports or posts UNpleasant wb event experiences.

while the wbz OWN website won't allow much about this place or legitimate club issues 2b posted by PAID members...

and the wb bobbleheads continue to think THIS PLACE is the issue???

get a CLUE folks.

for a LOT of former members & 'stream owners, in fact 100s upon 1000s, the wb' is irrelevant.

i say let them eat their young, sink or swim, pound their chests and be UNhappy or happy.

and now that the clubz money is shriveling as fast as the members, it won't be long.
___________________

the smoke screen to 'find a unit that u like, yadda yadda or BE the change ...

totally ignores the reality that MOST new members opt for unit #000.

OR join JUST 2 GET THE RED NUMBERS!

yes it's true the red numbers entice more to join than ANY thing else the club offers.

not many will PAY 2 JOIN a club that needs a major overhaul..

only 2 b told IF ya wanna good club experience MAKE IT YOURSELF!

but give your money to the home office...?
________________

and the powerz that be, HATE that mals wanna unit, wanna be free, think free or would like to try a 'cyberspace unit'.

so they JACKED up the price for these folks and HOPE to do away with the 'at large' faction...

the fee increase sure worked 4 me!

viva la liberation!

cheers
2air'

[ScrapIrony-2]

Wally had a concept, and that's why we're here...he didn't have a dictum, just a concept...camp, enjoy the fire, work together with problems, and experience...my view , anyway, and it's the only one that matters to me...it's a fine trailer, the rest is semantics...hey, is anyone considering coming to Quartzsite for Thanksgiving...???we'll have a rally(free) that should represent real hospitality...4CU throws a great rally, and all that stuffed shirt stuff...well...it just doesn't happen...it does help to bring firewood and a Hawaian shirt...anything flamingo is good...actually, anything ya wanna bring is just fine...not to change the direction, but tempers seem to be elevating, and I'm past ready to camp...mike

[safari62]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

one thing is clear THIS FORUM allows a LOT of stuff to be expressed and AIRED about the dinosaur club...

THIS FORUM has provided FREE webspace and support of wb' units and their websites...

and THIS FORUM has allowed wb'er to promote their rallez and dreamy unit experiences,

Unfettered and ad nauseam

and now that the clubz money is shriveling as fast as the members, it won't be long.
_________________

cheers
2air'

Ouch Baby!
Shriveling members....time to start upping the sunscreen SPF applications. Or is this like shrinking, which is not much better? Individually or as a group? Anyway it does not sound good.

I do like catching the rally promotions here on the forums and am glad Club members in the know use this to get the message out. The club itself is getting better at advertising upcoming rallies but still it is up to us to search out events.

TCT, Vintage, JAMS, DINOclub, it's all good. Unless it's not. Been to both kinds.

This must be painful for non members when a particuliarly dreamy rally appears on the forums. They must wait sometimes months to see the follow up thread and photos all the while hoping there was five inches of rain, snow or an attack of red ants that ruined the weekend. I know I do this for the rallies I cannot make it to.

[ScrapIrony-2]

Ya know, a little Comet under the perimeter of yer outside rug will keep the critters away...if it doesn't, ya probably oughta park somewhere else, or get a bigger Cometm

[summerkid]

so ... bored ...

Don't make me post details of Friday's blind date, which accidentally meandered on for 12 hours & crossed state lines (Not to worry, I had a really good time! I hope he calls me again!).

[ScrapIrony-2]

How could he NOT call...you could be wearing HIS underwear...what color are his...?m
oh darn!!!i'm gonna get edited, again...answer quick...

[robandzoe]

Less is more when it comes to our annual dues... it's the only way... and I "know" what I get for my dues, but that's because I participate... but we could get SO MUCH MORE!

So, I'm coming to that Pocono Rally - it's gonna be a GREAT one!! But, if you're still on the fence, join, and come to our 1st annual WBBB -

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f289...=birthday+bash

I promise you it will be FUN! If you are one with a negative opinion, that opinion will change if you put forth the effort and come and see for yourself.

See ya down the road!

Rob

[wheel interested]

I agree with everything you say Leo and if it did not cost extra for the international part of the dues just to be listed and get a BB then I would and could wait forever and care less what they decide to do at the top.

However the BIG BUT is how long and how many will keep giving the International club $55-$75.00 or more to be with their friends at the $1-$15 unit dues level when a lot of those rallies are hospitable enough to be buddy rallies anyway. Members are paying for the right to be a member and to fund the leadership.

Basically everyone's idea to pay them no mind and enjoy their unit and pay them all their ransom gives them license to continue to spend irresponsibly and even raise the dues knowing there is a core group that will pay any price to be with their friends and part of the club. They are blessed with members who state that over and over again. Why should they worry? They have all the power and all the money and all that loyalty. They are tapping out many of the membership and prospective members and pricing them out of the international rally to spread all that good will to host cities but no good will to their own members.