WBCCI not Fun

[WineStream]

Moderator note:

This thread was started from posts that were moved from another thread because they were off topic and not relevant to that discussion.
Several comments in this thread reference that original thread which can be found here: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f440...fun-34249.html

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This is bordering on argumentative which PeeWee isn't going to like, but I still think this appropriate to this thread, especially given the replies about visiting a unit and seeing how FUN unit-life and unit-level people are.

I can't agree more with the people talking about how great things are in the units. I'm a member of WDCU and an associate of the forming NOVA unit as well as actively working in the formation of that unit. In spite of that, I am teetering on the fence as to whether or not to renew my WBCCI membership next year. And it's all about what's going on at the top and where my $55 (next year $65) is going. $65 isn't bad for an annual membership fee, I'll gladly pay it. But not when it's not directly benefiting the unit(s) that I love. I don't love IBT. It makes me sick that they collect that money and squander it while the units get no benefit except occasional insurance coverage for a privately held rally. The only recourse if the unit needs money is to have their own membership surcharge on top of the WBCCI charge. I can't imagine that when Helen and Wally were forming the structure of this club that grievance procedures were in their plans with which to oust members despite how hard said people have worked to recruit people into the WBCCI and to get existing members that are on the fence to stay in. Not much FUN in that.

For me, my short stay in the WBCCI has not been FUN outside of actually camping with people. It's been a hassle and I don't need to pay money to have the privilege of being hassled.

So I ask you, PeeWee (if you will continue to post) and all the other in this thread that have posted how FUN their unit is and who are going to continue to maintain WBCCI membership: how do you justify to yourself paying that money away when there's no direct benefit to your beloved unit? And in addition, when you see that money being used irresponsibly, how do you rationalize that aspect and continue paying it?

The one person that swayed me in this same argument a year ago and got me to join has just been thrown out of the club and it's pretty much the last straw for me. Time for someone else to step up and tell me why I should keep giving my money to WBCCI; 'cause I'm thinking I shouldn't. It isn't FUN.

[PeeWee]

Originally Posted by atobols

This is bordering on argumentative which PeeWee isn't going to like, but I still think this appropriate to this thread, especially given the replies about visiting a unit and seeing how FUN unit-life and unit-level people are.

Originally Posted by atobols

I can't agree more with the people talking about how great things are in the units. I'm a member of WDCU and an associate of the forming NOVA unit as well as actively working in the formation of that unit. In spite of that, I am teetering on the fence as to whether or not to renew my WBCCI membership next year. And it's all about what's going on at the top and where my $55 (next year $65) is going. $65 isn't bad for an annual membership fee, I'll gladly pay it. But not when it's not directly benefiting the unit(s) that I love. I don't love IBT. It makes me sick that they collect that money and squander it while the units get no benefit except occasional insurance coverage for a privately held rally. The only recourse if the unit needs money is to have their own membership surcharge on top of the WBCCI charge. I can't imagine that when Helen and Wally were forming the structure of this club that grievance procedures were in their plans with which to oust members despite how hard said people have worked to recruit people into the WBCCI and to get existing members that are on the fence to stay in. Not much FUN in that.

For me, my short stay in the WBCCI has not been FUN outside of actually camping with people. It's been a hassle and I don't need to pay money to have the privilege of being hassled.

So I ask you, PeeWee (you don't ask me anything) (if you will continue to post) and all the other in this thread that have posted how FUN their unit is and who are going to continue to maintain WBCCI membership: how do you justify to yourself paying that money away when there's no direct benefit to your beloved unit? And in addition, when you see that money being used irresponsibly, how do you rationalize that aspect and continue paying it?

The one person that swayed me in this same argument a year ago and got me to join has just been thrown out of the club and it's pretty much the last straw for me. Time for someone else to step up and tell me why I should keep giving my money to WBCCI; 'cause I'm thinking I shouldn't. It isn't FUN.

I see you have NOVA; I understand this is a Unit to be like the Washington D.C. Unit, and the Four Corners Unit.

You have the audacity to launder your dirty linen on a historical thread. If you see the three or four threads before this...it is history. It's not the insulting "Goodbye, WBCCI" and the lost "Wally Byam Birthday Bash."

I have contributed history and have shared items that you, and others cannot provide the Airstream Nation. Good, wholesome pictures and stories of the past. This has been a joy to share with the members of Air Forums.

With your impudent thread, I now say goodbye, and goodbye forever to this forum.

As Caesar said and you too Brutus. (Et Tu Brutus)

It is bad that good intentions are spoiled by the self-serving.

Good-bye forever Air Forums. I left earlier because I need to tend to my personal life. I am moving ahead.

Jason, you are really something else. You are correct I only find disdain for you and your thread, and for others and other threads with your tone and content. If I wanted to take my threads politically, I suppose I could. I have not done this, this is probably as close as I have gone. I normally leave names off my threads, but not this time.

I really hope you are pleased, no apology needed. Make your apologies to the people that know better than you do where to post their comments. They also value the history of Airstream, Wally Byam, Caravans, Helen Byam Schwamborn, and the Wally Byam Caravan Club.

Good-bye!

[byamcaravanner]

Originally Posted by atobols

This is bordering on argumentative which PeeWee isn't going to like.

Jason you violated WBCCI rule number 2... "Only talk about the positive aspects of the club"

FYI, rule number 1 is "Don't question the IBT"

Follow these two rules and no others are needed.

[Goin camping]

Originally Posted by atobols

This is bordering on argumentative which PeeWee isn't going to like, but I still think this appropriate to this thread, especially given the replies about visiting a unit and seeing how FUN unit-life and unit-level people are.

I can't agree more with the people talking about how great things are in the units. I'm a member of WDCU and an associate of the forming NOVA unit as well as actively working in the formation of that unit. In spite of that, I am teetering on the fence as to whether or not to renew my WBCCI membership next year. And it's all about what's going on at the top and where my $55 (next year $65) is going. $65 isn't bad for an annual membership fee, I'll gladly pay it. But not when it's not directly benefiting the unit(s) that I love. I don't love IBT. It makes me sick that they collect that money and squander it while the units get no benefit except occasional insurance coverage for a privately held rally. The only recourse if the unit needs money is to have their own membership surcharge on top of the WBCCI charge. I can't imagine that when Helen and Wally were forming the structure of this club that grievance procedures were in their plans with which to oust members despite how hard said people have worked to recruit people into the WBCCI and to get existing members that are on the fence to stay in. Not much FUN in that.

For me, my short stay in the WBCCI has not been FUN outside of actually camping with people. It's been a hassle and I don't need to pay money to have the privilege of being hassled.

So I ask you, PeeWee (if you will continue to post) and all the other in this thread that have posted how FUN their unit is and who are going to continue to maintain WBCCI membership: how do you justify to yourself paying that money away when there's no direct benefit to your beloved unit? And in addition, when you see that money being used irresponsibly, how do you rationalize that aspect and continue paying it?

The one person that swayed me in this same argument a year ago and got me to join has just been thrown out of the club and it's pretty much the last straw for me. Time for someone else to step up and tell me why I should keep giving my money to WBCCI; 'cause I'm thinking I shouldn't. It isn't FUN.

Why would you thread poop with your politcal issues on a history thread?

Bad form to put it very mildly.

[byamcaravanner]

Originally Posted by Goin camping

Why would you thread poop with your politcal issues on a history thread?

Did you mean to say a WBCCI propaganda thread? ...and why are they Jason's political issues? They are the issues of the club of which this thread is entitled.

[WineStream]

It's not political poop. It's a valid question based upon the original post and some of the responses. I'm still hoping to get responses that aren't offensive and are instead justification of money movement. People posted that their source of "to have fun" in the WBCCI was with their local unit. I'm asking what the rationale is that your source of fun in the WBCCI is not where you are giving your money nor is said source directly benefiting from your money.

Anyone have an answer to that question that's not a personal attack on me?

I'm to trying to question the historical aspect of the club nor persuade people to think one way or the other. I'm just trying to incite a thought process and people to discuss these thoughts. I've been asking myself the very question that I posted earlier. Since my current notion is on the non-WBCCI side of the fence, I'd like those who have posted positively toward the WBCCI to respond here.

-Jason

[Frank's Trailer Works]

you won't get it....

[Goin camping]

Originally Posted by atobols

It's not political poop. It's a valid question based upon the original post and some of the responses. I'm still hoping to get responses that aren't offensive and are instead justification of money movement. People posted that their source of "to have fun" in the WBCCI was with their local unit. I'm asking what the rationale is that your source of fun in the WBCCI is not where you are giving your money nor is said source directly benefiting from your money.

Anyone have an answer to that question that's not a personal attack on me?

I'm to trying to question the historical aspect of the club nor persuade people to think one way or the other. I'm just trying to incite a thought process and people to discuss these thoughts. I've been asking myself the very question that I posted earlier. Since my current notion is on the non-WBCCI side of the fence, I'd like those who have posted positively toward the WBCCI to respond here.

-Jason

Your question is valid. Where you asked it is the issue.

Start your own thread and ask your question.

[byamcaravanner]

Originally Posted by Goin camping

Your question is valid. Where you asked it is the issue.

Start your own thread and ask your question.

Right... because this thread is only suppose to discuss the positive aspects of the club. That way things look rosier than they really are.

[wkerfoot]

Milo,

Watch out, you have crossed the anti WBCCI crowd. In there eyes, there is nothing good about the club and anyone who disagrees is an idiot.

Jason, thanks for chasing PeeWee away from the forum. I always found his history posts and pictures very interesting. But then I don't hate the WBCCI, I only hope it will change.

Bill

[wheel interested]

well, Pee Wee in particular enjoys sharing stories of the glory days of WBCCI and trys to tell us about that spirit of Airstreaming. And I think we all enjoy hearing those stories and seeing his pictures. He is apolitical in regards to the clubs turmoil. His appearance is like a guest appearance... and you did say yourself, you knew he wouldn't like your comment when you were making it.

I think we can all just cut each other some slack now and not push each others buttons, at least intentionally without provocation.

Let's make another thread and perhaps the moderators could move some of the posts if the posters so request.

[WineStream]

PeeWee absolved himself to go away after 2009. I didn't chase him away. He popped back in for more by his own accord. I asked a tough question based on his post and since it wasn't thanking him or otherwise patting him on the back for his contribution; it ticked him off. So, yea, I become the scapegoat for something that PeeWee himself said he would do and didn't.

You guys have to understand something here...I AM a WBCCI member. I ask tough questions regardless of what side of the fence I stand on. Often I come off as being a jerk, but I'm really trying to get people to ask themselves why their actions are what they are. I've offered an opportunity for people who feel that their WBCCI experience is a positive one to tell me and the other readers of this thread WHY it's positive for them so that others (maybe even me) can find inspiration in that and maybe in 10 months decide that the WBCCI is worth staying in. But, as those reading this thread who are devout WBCCI supporters have clearly shown; they are not interested in describing why their $55 or their experience is worthwhile. Instead, they choose to lay blame for certain actions and point fingers instead of addressing the tough issues facing the club and/or justifying how their money supports the infrastructure that allows them "to have fun".

-Jason

[byamcaravanner]

Originally Posted by wheel interested

Let's make another thread and perhaps the moderators could move some of the posts if the posters so request.

Right... cleanse the thread of all but one point of view.

BTW, to say that PeeWee is apolitical on the club turmoil is laughable. His whole return to the Airstream world is to promote his Mother's legacy. Unfortunately he is blaming the wrong folks for destroying it.

[wkerfoot]

Jason,

Post 55 in this thread http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...tml#post386364

Bill

[WineStream]

Originally Posted by wheel interested

... and you did say yourself, you knew he wouldn't like your comment when you were making it.

I was really thinking back to a previous post in the thread where PeeWee cautioned people about staying on topic. But, I don't see how my post was off-topic; it was on-topic. It just wasn't supporting his viewpoint, it was an alternative viewpoint.

Let's make another thread and perhaps the moderators could move some of the posts if the posters so request.

I have thought of this based upon the suggestion of "Goin camping"; but then others continued to post here and I thought: why should a new thread be started? The topic fits, it's relating back to the original post. If you post something, you have to be willing to accept that there might be people who don't agree 100%. Maybe a moderator will disagree and move posts to a new thread, but I think we're on track with the original topic of the post.

There's a number of anti-WBCCI threads out there. I chose to question people in a pro-WBCCI thread to express their reasons for being in the club and instead of positive viewpoints, I received personal attacks.

[safari57]

Thank you Carol.

Losing PeeWee's input would be a travesty. I thoroughly enjoy the historical components he posts. He has every right to be proud of his involvement and knowledge of the trailer we at least can all agree we are proud to own and the club he was so much a part of and has been so important in his life.

If I was disappointed to find the thread hijacked I can imagine how PeeWee must have felt. How sad. A major loss to the thousands of us who have enjoyed his posts.

Barry

[wheel interested]

You guys are preaching to the choir. You think I don't agree with your points of view. You would be mistaken to think that. But every thread does not have to contain every subject. What makes you think Pee Wee wants to talk dues increase in this thread? He isn't IBT. He isn't even pro-IBT. He has a pride of WBCCI as it was intended and originated. We can't fully appreciate that from our standpoint. What do you want from the man? You know who to go after with your concerns. Of course he becomes incensed to see what has become of the legacy.

[WineStream]

Originally Posted by wheel interested

You guys are preaching to the choir. You think I don't agree with your points of view. You would be mistaken to think that. But every thread does not have to contain every subject. What makes you think Pee Wee wants to talk dues increase in this thread? He isn't IBT what do you want from the man? You know who to go after with your concerns.

Dues increase has nothing to do with it...

I want to know why people that love their local unit and say that this is the source of "fun" can justify paying their membership dues (no matter what the amount) to a national organization that gives little or nothing back to the unit.

[Boondocker]

Originally Posted by wheel interested

... and you did say yourself, you knew he wouldn't like your comment when you were making it.

For sometime I have found it interesting that there is a sentiment among some that a different level of sensitivity in posting is due to Peewee than to other forum members. For my part, I don't buy that he is any more, or less, deserving of deference than anyone else. OPs do not get to exercise editorial control over the course a thread takes. Threads wander, go off topic, and get hijacked, that is just how the ball bounces. And frankly, the sanctimonious and scolding tone he has often chosen to take toward others has made some push back inevitable. If he wants to take part in the forums with the same status as everyone else great, if not, in my world he is welcome to pick up his toys and go home like he claims he has.

[wheel interested]

I did say if the posters wanted to start a new thread they could. It seemed there were going to be disputes about the appropriateness of the new direction.

I appreciate what you are saying and I have put in a sharp word myself in reaction to certain attitudes as you have mentioned, but it was in direct response, within context. I am all for putting up the dukes.I just don't like sucker punching or blind siding anyone before they put on the gloves.

Aint no saints here on any sides. I don't disagree with anything you or Jason or the others for that matter are saying. I didn't mean to hijack the hijack, or did I? Sorry i am going to go look at Airstream pictures some more, which is how I got in this thread last to begin with.

Did you all see the guy in the ladies underwear in the Xmas card below?