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Karyn · 12-19-2005, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by rnzbernd "The name we are proposing is the Airstream Owners Association, Incorporated. (Have to include Inc. for legal reasons) We'd use AOAI as initials. It best define who and what we are: An Association of people who own Airstreams."

In my opinion, The Wally Byam Airstream Club, Inc., best defines us as an Airstream club with a rich history. It doesn't alienate all that has gone before, but adds "Airstream" to clarify what the club is about.

Buttercup · 12-19-2005, 11:02 AM

I would like to ask a few questions... Where are the results of this study you speak of posted?

Secondly, please be polite in posting on the forums - “:Now ya all pay attention” is kind of harsh – even if you add the word “please” to it. I am not a child and as a member of the WBCCI deserve more respect than that. We are all adults, not children and aught not be talked to as such. You may be the 1st VP of Region 10 but we aren't in a military structure here, we are all equals no matter what our AS background is.

You talk of a 5 to 1 ratio in favor for the change. I dispute that result on the basis of the responses here on these forums. One advantage we have here is that the forums are an open forum and nothing is hidden. If you quote a 5 to 1 acceptance please provide some sort of documentation of proceedings to qualify that statement. Obviously these forums indicate a drastically different result than the one you speak of. And if these forums represent a well blended mix of the members of the WBCCI, then your results must be slanted. Again – documentation of your claims can go a long way in validating your claim. My opinion is that saying the change was approved on a 5 to 1 ratio by the membership as represented by the delegates is misleading because there is not an even ratio of delegates to members. It is an inflation of whatever results you want to express.

It seems that there is an abundant number of people here who knew nothing about the change or the vote which suggests that the membership has not been adequately represented at all. I, for one, would like to know which delegates were present when this was approved. Do you have minutes of this meeting where this work was accomplished?

Were the members made aware of the costs when this was first proposed? Or was this pushed forward with the expectation that this expense as a whole could just be absorbed.

Lastly, the discussion is about the logo change being an ineffective way to improve the WBCCI's dwindling circumstances, not about weather we approve the logo/name your committee creates or not. If you read these forums, you will see that the call is for a change to the way WBCCI is doing business, not what they look like. “a rose by any other name...” you get the idea....

wheel interested · 12-19-2005, 11:09 AM

I was just going to say that. We are being incorporated and it is not expected we will have any changing impact. It's not who I am.

It's difficult to reckon the call to volunteer (which usually comes in the way of a defense to why things don't change) and becoming involved but that's already being prefaced with the expectation of the final result.

It's like talk to us... but we won't change. Reminds me of the answer to the survey results in the BB sometime back, which I remember made me livid.

You see we cannot change it because the (in)corporation we find our selves in resists change! (We KNEW that)

Ever feel just like a number people, as you listen up?

wheel interested · 12-19-2005, 11:30 AM

Perhaps we the people of the disunited state of the WBCCI would like to have a vote. If the official mandate goes down next spring there is plenty of time to impliment a voting procedure of one member one vote.

Chuck · 12-19-2005, 11:42 AM

If I may just re-iterate in defense of R.B...

there have been multiple complaints in this thread to the tune of "nobody asked ME!!!!; I never got a ballot", etc, etc.

Its all done at the spring business meeting. that is why its important to go to it. This spring, our unit, (and I suspect, many others) held our meeting. the subject was raised, it was debated, and a vote was taken. Our delegates brought our vote to international.

If you go to this meeting, you have a chance to have your say. If you don't, you don't. Nobody seems to be hearing this fact. only "why didn't they ask ME???!!!!". So I understand RB's frustration.

other points:

I don't think the original intent of the name change was to cure all the ills of the WBCCI. name recognition is just one of many issues. A new name isn't going to fix everything, and nobody thinks it will, or ever thought it would. its just one thing.

Don't assume for a minute that this forum represents a cross section of the wbcci as a whole. as broad as the forum is, there are lots of wally-ites that have never heard of it. Many don't use computers much, or at all. Some who do, just don't have the time to participate here much. I can name a few people, just off the top of my head, that are among the young, hip, movers and shakers of our growing unit, who aren't here much, if at all. Their daily schedules and work circumstances just don't allow it.

Buttercup · 12-19-2005, 12:10 PM

I would argue that the forums DOES reflect the membership of the WBCCI because over 1/2 of the members on these forums are also members of the WBCCI. If there are 10100+ members on the forums that means that there are over 5000 WBCCI members here. That is a very large percentage of the WBCCI membership as a whole. Just because there are WBCCI members who are not computer savvy to be a part of these forums (or just don't care to be a part of a forum) doesn't mean we forum members somehow do not reflect the views of WBCCI.

Statistically, with 5000 members on these forums belonging to the WBCCI from all parts of the world, I say that means we better reflect the desires and feelings of the WBCCI membership than do a few members of the delegates do for the WBCCI as a whole.

The consensus here seems to strongly indicate that there was not adequate enough notice given for something as important as this. And that the desires of the membership, at least as represented here on these forums, do not want the change but would rather see a change in the operation of the WBCCI.

wkerfoot · 12-19-2005, 12:26 PM

Buttercup.

Where did you get the 50% WBCCI membership number?

Also even though some members are passionate about the name change issue, there are only a couple of hundred postings to those threads and many are by the same members. Of the 5,000 WBCCI members on this board only a few seem to care.

Bill

**Stefrobrts** · 12-19-2005, 12:36 PM

That's why I started the Poll, to get one vote per WBCCI member and see how the percentage broke down. Currently it's running about 3 to 1 against changing the name. Which is interesting, considering the general membership is 5 to 1 in favor of change. How interesting that the subset of members on the forum have such differing opinions than the membership in general!

But even among some of those who want change, they don't want such drastic change. How come we didn't get a selection of potential names to choose from - or did we?

Buttercup · 12-19-2005, 12:43 PM

That is based on a pole on the forum where participants were asked if they were a member of WBCCI, VAC, etc. About 50 % responded they were WBCCI members. Sorry I don't remember where the pole is at this time to give you a more exact number. But I did find it interesting that it was a strong showing.

Chuck · 12-19-2005, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buttercup

I would argue that the forums DOES reflect the membership of the WBCCI because over 1/2 of the members on these forums are also members of the WBCCI.

If there are 10100+ members on the forums that means that there are over 5000 WBCCI members here. That is a very large percentage of the WBCCI membership as a whole. Just because there are WBCCI members who are not computer savvy to be a part of these forums (or just don't care to be a part of a forum) doesn't mean we forum members somehow do not reflect the views of WBCCI.

Statistically, with 5000 members on these forums belonging to the WBCCI from all parts of the world, I say that means we better reflect the desires and feelings of the WBCCI membership than do a few members of the delegates do for the WBCCI as a whole.

The consensus here seems to strongly indicate that there was not adequate enough notice given for something as important as this. And that the desires of the membership, at least as represented here on these forums, do not want the change but would rather see a change in the operation of the WBCCI.

where's that "50%" number coming from? yes, that would be a majority of the wally club. I doubt that 80% of the membership spends that much time here. Sure, there may be 10,000 people that have taken the time to register on the site, but how many are regular posters? how many "rivet masters", (or soon to be)? Most of the conversations are dominated by the same relatively small number of us. and those that are complaining about this issue in this particular thread number even fewer still.

all I can tell you is that I knew the issue was going to be brought up at the spring business meeting. I went to the spring business meeting. I cast my vote. why didn't all of you?

The delegates are doing as they have been directed by the membership. The implication that the "leadership" of the club is jamming something down our throats without our approval is just unfounded.

Perhaps one day, the wbcci will dispense with the current "delegate" system, and run everything by airstreamforums.com poll. I'm sure there is a way to bring this about, although, I'm not savy enough about the procedures to say specificially how. But from what I have seen, and do know about the wbcci, its policies, practices, and procedures, I'm sure there is a way to bring that about. Then, whenever an issue like this comes up, we'll all get an email, and be able to vote directly.

markdoane · 12-19-2005, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buttercup

That is based on a pole on the forum where participants were asked if they were a member of WBCCI, VAC, etc. About 50 % responded they were WBCCI members. Sorry I don't remember where the pole is at this time to give you a more exact number. But I did find it interesting that it was a strong showing.

The results were 52% did not belong to WBBCI, or WBCCI & VAC. So 50% is a good estimate.

Chuck · 12-19-2005, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buttercup

That is based on a pole on the forum where participants were asked if they were a member of WBCCI, VAC, etc. About 50 % responded they were WBCCI members. Sorry I don't remember where the pole is at this time to give you a more exact number. But I did find it interesting that it was a strong showing.

ok, this came in while I was composing my last post.

that would only mean that 50% of the people that responded to the poll are wbcci members. that in no way indicates that 50% of the registered members here are wbcci members.

wheel interested · 12-19-2005, 01:00 PM

Conversely you cannot assume that the other WBCCI members who are not part of that group are in favor or disfavor without a proper vote and if the criteria to vote is to make the spring meeting you will only have the representation of the people who want to go to the spring meeting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck

ok, this came in while I was composing my last post.

that would only mean that 50% of the people that responded to the poll are wbcci members. that in no way indicates that 50% of the registered members here are wbcci members.

markdoane · 12-19-2005, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck

. . . that would only mean that 50% of the people that responded to the poll are wbcci members. that in no way indicates that 50% of the registered members here are wbcci members.

Very, very true. The poll was only answered by a self-selecting subset of the registered forum members.

And it was a small sample of only a few hundred.

But there isn't any other data except guesswork.

**Janet H** · 12-19-2005, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck

....there have been multiple complaints in this thread to the tune of "nobody asked ME!!!!; I never got a ballot", etc, etc.

Its all done at the spring business meeting. that is why its important to go to it. ....

This is indicative of structure issues that need to be addressed. I live in a large region covering several states. My unit holds it's meetings many hours from my location. And... if it's on a weekday at lunch... well you get the picture.

Every member should have been surveyed in a meaningful way by thier units and regions. Kudos to those that did send out surveys - but many did not. The note in the Blue Beret to send in comments was kind of, well.... odd... since the comments went to the committee looking at the issue - not to the folks who ACTUALLY VOTE. The process rots and is further disenfranchising the very folks that the club professes to court.

Mike Lewis · 12-19-2005, 01:15 PM

I direct this to RB Bernd. Who do you think you're inpressing with these smart mouthed comments???????? Who made you master of this forum????????? I resent your attitude of presumed authority!!!!!! AND I"M NOT A YA ALL!!!!!!! Its strange how some people get brave with their comments when they are not face to face with those they are speaking to.
After waiting 3 years to join WBCC I joined Dec 3rd. If I had heard this crap before then I wouldn't have waisted my money. I do not intend to be talked DOWN TO by you or anyone else with one of those silly little hats!!!!!!!
Mike Lewis ---still waiting for my big red letters!!!!!

Buttercup · 12-19-2005, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnzbernd

Cost? Our current estimate is $21,300 at the International Level. It will vary at the Unit level. The biggest expense there will probably be how many Unit officer flags the unit elects to change ($57 ea). Incorporated Units will also have to change their Articles of Incorporation in their state - - no more than $50. We would Grandfather as much as possible, like Past Presidents flags and issue stick-on decals of the new logo for existing membership badges.

I have one question on this...

How will this logo change and name change increase membership, resolve problems within the WBCCI and service the existing membership. For the estimated expense of $21,300 (at the international level)

, what are the members going to see happen (besides new flags for officers, new badges and new stickers)?

BTW, We are ordering new numbers and new stickers of the current type BEFORE this valuable piece of history goes bye bye.

Buttercup · 12-19-2005, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck

ok, this came in while I was composing my last post.

that would only mean that 50% of the people that responded to the poll are wbcci members. that in no way indicates that 50% of the registered members here are wbcci members.

Again, without the benefit of the poll in front of me, all I can say is that the majority of respondents have indicated that they were not aware of a vote and do not desire a change. I think we are talking about 2 diffrent polls. I am not talking about the poll that asks if members want the change. I am talking about the poll that asks who are members of WBCCI.

Buttercup · 12-19-2005, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wkerfoot

Buttercup.

Where did you get the 50% WBCCI membership number?

Also even though some members are passionate about the name change issue, there are only a couple of hundred postings to those threads and many are by the same members. Of the 5,000 WBCCI members on this board only a few seem to care.

Bill

Found it...

Chuck · 12-19-2005, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buttercup

I am talking about the poll that asks who are members of WBCCI.

me too. a tiny portion of the 10,000+ forum membership participated. there's no way you can extrapolate from that poll that there are 5000 wbcci members here, much less the opinion of the wbcci membership as a whole, from a couple of small polls. At "holiday" time, especially. when people are really busy, and even less likely to see the polls!

I'm not saying that I'm an expert on the demographics of either group (wbcci or 'forums), but I don't think we're indicative of the wally club. We're more of an "Airstream Life" group here. (my impression. no stats or facts to back this up). But I do know, from the publisher of Airstream Life himself, that wbcci is not his main target audience. and I'm certain that he's studied the demographics very thoroughly.