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Old 12-14-2005, 07:57 AM   #61
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Having been Airstreamer now for 2 plus years and not joining WBCC, we finally did reciently. I must admitt I have done so with apprehension. My feelings up to this point were and still are somewhat like Rodneys in that it seems that a group of folks could get our together without all the formality and just have a good time. Still on nearly every outing we have a WBCC member approach us and encourage us to join. We held off mainly because it hit me wrong to think I would have to spend $65-70 to see if it was something we might like. Whenever I expressed this there was always someone around to demean me for making such a big deal over a "piddly" amount of money that wouldn't buy a tank of gas. I probably would have joined sooner had that not happened repeatedly. We decided we would join and see if it was something that would be of interest, which remains to be seen. After two lunchens this is what I've observed. Five folks beside my wife and I arrive at a designated eating establishment ,two of which are 20 minutes late and had to call another in the group to remind them this is luncheon day. 20 more minutes go buy and they arrive. Everyone has on these vest with all the pins and things they have accumulated over the years. I Don't know if we're supposed to get these or not. After lunch talk begun about how the latest hunting trip when and was followed by another 45 minutes to an hour of non airstream talk. When I asked if they we going to travel together to the Winter Fiesta International Rally in Anthony Texas they said they were not taking their trailers but were going to drive and stay in a motel ????? This was the sum total of Airstream discussion for the meeting. I hope this isn't typical of the type of thing we've joined as we're not into pins, vests, berets, flags etc.
As to the discussion about the name change personally I don't care what it's called and don't intend to argue about something that has nothing to do with why we joined, that being meeting and having fun with folks that have a like interest in Airstreams. Like Rodney it's not my intention to insult or demean anyone for their interest and concern about things such as names etc it's just not whats important to me.---------Pieman
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Old 12-14-2005, 08:01 AM   #62
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I have been a member for 3 years now. I have not heard until this thread that there is a name change in the works for "my" club. Nil, Nada, Nichts. Someone mentioned that there was a blurb in one of the blue Beret mags? Can't even find it. This entire subject sounds more and more fishy to me. I for one am not surprised that there's criticism from our more outspoken members.
Personally, I don't really care if they change the name, my only interest lies in the vintage club. WBCCI is a means to an end for me, at this time.
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Old 12-14-2005, 08:28 AM   #63
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My thoughts are very much like Gen Disarray's. I have not yet joined WBCCI. The week after I bought my AS I saw on their web site Region 5 was having their rally in Bowling Green KY. I drove over for a few hours (saturday). What I saw did not impress me much. I like vintage. That is just me. My definition of vintage is pre 1968. Again that is just me. Of the 87 trailers present only 3 fit my definition of vintage. All three were parked together. I walked up and had a great visit with two of the three owners. The third was not present. I would gladly be in a club with these guys. They were very helpful and friendly to me. As I walked around the rest of the rally site I had the feeling of being in the trailer park in Plant City Fl. where my Mom had a winter place for a few years. One step away from a nursing home. I have to say that the time I was there was when the tours etc. were scheduled so I won't judge too harshly, but of the folks who were there few even aknowledged my presence with a smile or wave. I did not approach them as I was not interested in their rig, at least not then. I am not interested in going camping/rallying to wear a coat, tie and beret or put up with political BS and rule makers. If that is what WBCCI is or would still be by another name count me out. I want campfires, hikes and talk about Airstreams.
All that being said I will probably join for this year and make as many events as I can before deciding for sure. First impressions can be wrong.
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Old 12-14-2005, 09:29 AM   #64
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What Vote?

I must have missed this. I never saw a ballot from WBCCI or our regional or local unit on this.
If it was passed along as you mention I bet there are a lot of other folks who didn't get a chance to properly vote on this. Based on what we are seeing on the forums - it's hard to imagine that, if voted on in this fashion, it ever passed in the first place - the overwhelming replies on these forums are against the name change.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefrobrts
65GT, I think you're way out of line there - insinuating that somehow a smal group of power hungry leaders are pushing this decision to change the name down the throats of the membership. That's not the way it works. The members voted. Their unit reps took their decision to international. The reps voted, and the decision was made. The majority wants to see a name change. Now they at the international board meeting have to decide what that name will be. It's democracy in action.
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Old 12-14-2005, 09:46 AM   #65
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My last post on this subject: People who know how to cause change to happen will usually not get involved because of the rhetoric they recieve. The cause has to be of enough importance to endure this, and this one is not for me.

I don't care if they change the name!! Call it whatever they want. I don't care if they have ceremonies and protocols. I just ignore them. I don't go to many rally's anymore, although we have been to some good ones. The Mardi Gras is one that I really enjoyed although we did a lot of our own thing there.

I like to park in the woods, or an the water somewhere, with like minded quasi red-necks like me. I like a big camp fire (as does my wife), a few drinks with friendly easy-going people. My Wife and I are both professional people but don't really like the country club type life.

I can find all this outside the WBCCI, and I do. I still belong and do the web sites for two groups, but I am losing interest fast. I think that the people on this forum would be a great group to camp and party with. Perhaps we should arrange something like that.

To 65GT. don't have any agenda or dreams of power. Been there, done that, Lots of work and very little fun.
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Old 12-14-2005, 09:56 AM   #66
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Can some one set up a poll?

on members that did or did not vote. And how the opportunity was extended and realized? Might be a good follow-up given the present interest, though a moot issue at this date. I wonder how many of the entire club members, including those without internet actually did give a yea or nay. Dues are collected via mail seems an absentee ballot could have been collected similarly.

With such a large club with such a long history, a name change seems to me to negate it's unbroken heritage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
I must have missed this. I never saw a ballot from WBCCI or our regional or local unit on this.
If it was passed along as you mention I bet there are a lot of other folks who didn't get a chance to properly vote on this. Based on what we are seeing on the forums - it's hard to imagine that, if voted on in this fashion, it ever passed in the first place - the overwhelming replies on these forums are against the name change.
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Old 12-14-2005, 10:11 AM   #67
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Buttercup has a good point. Most of the time WBCCI seems to put info in the Blue Beret regarding issues that need to be voted on. I found this out when I sent an email directly to WBCCI regarding the increase in dues. Speaking for myself, it seems you have to really pay attention and search to first of all to find out some issue such as the name change is being considered, then you have to do some more searching to figure out how to have some input. Then you have to hope and pray your input is even considered. Most of the time it seems in order to vote or voice an opinion, you have to attend a meeting or rally - unit, region, or international. As an officer in our Unit, I sure don't remember ever receiving anything that would indicate we needed to address issues (name change, dues increase) with our members and how we could get their voice heard on the regional and national levels. Maybe I missed something. There is a lot of room for improvement in this area, and some improvements would be easy to implement. For instance use the web to post poll questions (like on this forum).
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Old 12-14-2005, 10:32 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gen Disarray
It seems to me though, that the spirit of hitting the road for adventure with an Airstream had been lost to other considerations. Perhaps instead of asking the club to change, a more productive move for someone like myself who would like to have an Airstream club would be to form one like WE want. So what would such a club look like to me? I think it would look remarkably like this forum. Outings would be much like I imagine forum rallies to be; inexpensive, informal, and friendly.
Here is what my grandfather (#772) said at a rally in Death Valley in 1966

"By the end of the day eight airstreams and no officials. So we all decided to be presidents and do as we pleased."

As to the general discussion on this thread, changing the name doesn't solve the problems. As someone said, it is an easy fix and may make you feel like you are doing something, when in reality nothing changes. As to the often heard comment, nobody knows who Wally Byam is, well that to me is because WBCCI has not done it's job to inform, educate and promote it's history and it's founder.

If you want to encourage the younger generations, if the organization is to grow and develop then there is going to need to be some serious review, evaluation, reorganization, and restructuring. I don't mean window dressing. I mean really looking in the mirror, even if it isn't pretty then making a commitment to making some real changes. To walk the walk, not just talk about it. To change effectively, you have to really listen to the members and potential members. You have to address their needs, interests, and resources. You have to continually assess what works and what doesn't and be flexible enough to change while still maintaining the founding principles and ideas that the organization was built on. You have to be able to utilize the new resources and technologies that will strengthen the organization and enhance its abilities to meet the needs of its members.
Gen Dissaray is right on. If you look at Wally Byam's Creed and his Four freedoms you can see the type of organization he is talking about. If WBBCI would pay more attention to what is going on on the fourms they could go a long way towards transforming the organization for the better.

There is so much potential for WBCCI if those of us who care about the organization are willing to be persistent, patient, and willing to get in there and make the changes happen. I'd love to see even simple things like renewing membership and signing up for the International rally on-line. I think the Intra-clubs could be a great asset to member recruitment and retention if they were just promoted more actively and effectively. For instance, if there were more information was available on the WBCCI website. I'd like to see an on-line version of the Blue Beret.

On another topic, one of the things I have wondered about VAC is what will happen when motorhomes, Bvan's and Class A's become eligible for membership? If I understand correctly a requirement for VAC is any Airstream 25yrs of age or older. To me vintage is any Airstream before Beatrice got the company. I gather the Classic intra-club focuses on the "classic" Airstream shape (trailer) rather than age. It also seems that the appeal of VAC is primarily the vintage trailer (which seem to be popular especially with the younger generations) rather than that it offers an alternative to the perceived structure, rigidity, and "in crowd" older generation prevalent in the the organization at large. Has VAC learned from WBCCI? What could WBCCI learn from VAC?
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Old 12-14-2005, 11:03 AM   #69
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65GT, our unit voted by sending a page out included in the monthly newsletter with a number of items to vote on which were going to be decided at international. Every member of our unit should have received this, and they had the opportunity to vote and send it back to the member who was adding up the votes. I don't know how they knew what would be voted on, but we have one member who is very dedicated to the club who keeps track of those things.

When I say what you said was unfair, perhaps I should have taken it more tounge in cheek as you followed that analogy. I just felt that if I was an international officer and read what you wrote, my feelings would be hurt. I don't think they do it for power or glory, these are regular joes who honestly want to do their best to help the club survive. The ones I have had the chance to speak to have been really nice folks, who have gotten a lot of enjoyment out of the club over the years and would like to see it continue for the next generation to share in as well. There may be a few showboats in there, but for the most part, I'd say it's unfair to attribute that to the officers in general.

I know the WBCCI isn't perfect by a long shot, but when I hear thse people talking about the years and years of good times, traveling, and fellowship that they have enjoyed with the club, it makes me think it's worth it to see if it can change with the times and still provide some value to the members. Maybe the time has passed for clubs like this. Back in the day, it was the only way to get together and stay in touch with other Airstreamers, but now with the internet perhaps it's time really has passed. Time will tell.
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Old 12-14-2005, 01:30 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested
on members that did or did not vote. And how the opportunity was extended and realized? Might be a good follow-up given the present interest, though a moot issue at this date. I wonder how many of the entire club members, including those without internet actually did give a yea or nay. Dues are collected via mail seems an absentee ballot could have been collected similarly.
If I remember right the name change came by way of a survey that was included in the Blue Beret some time ago. So everyone had input. A committee was formed to analyze those survey results. Our local membership was informed at a rally during a unit business meeting that this would be brought up at the winter IBT meetings. Again every unit has a representative at that meeting. How each unit informs their membership and how they vote varies. Those present at our rally and meeting voted to accept a name change.

I think this was the same meeting where the discussion was whether to allow owners of the new Airstream Basecamp into the organization. That in itself was an interesting discussion since a few of the old timers raised objections regarding the fact that the units are not "self contained". I stood up and reminded them that they were taking the attitudes that kept motor homes and Argosy's from WBCCI years ago. In light of the membership drop off it would be unfortunate to alienate this new group of folks, who in the future may become owners of more traditional Airstream vehicles. I also noted that in many cases vintage Airstream units may not be totaly self contained either and we allow them in. The motion to allow these units in passed at our meeting.

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Old 12-14-2005, 01:39 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooperhawk
I think that the people on this forum would be a great group to camp and party with. Perhaps we should arrange something like that.

Well check the schedule. This coming June will be our 4th annual Moraine View Midwest Forums rally. There are a few other Forum rallies which have been going on a few years also. You are all welcome. Last year our furthest unit (Big Al) came from Canada. This year's rally will have an interesting twist that I'll announce early in February.

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Old 12-14-2005, 07:29 PM   #72
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Quote:
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I've been around about a year +/- (I just paid up again in Oct or November) and I know I never received a ballot to vote on anything. If you can give me the details and time frame, I'd sure appreciate it. That should clear up a lot of my disbelief as to how things have gotten this far.
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65GT: Your vote on the name change issue would have been cast at your local WBCCI Unit level, likely in Fall 2004. Based on local unit voting results, your local unit president then would have voted for or against the name change proposal at the following WBCCI Regional Meeting. Based on the voting results at Regional level, the twelve Regional Representatives then voted for or against the name change issue at the July 2005 International Rally. The WBCCI is a representational democracy. Unlike Chuck Schumer, you don't get to vote individually on every issue.

You should ask your local unit for the date on which, and place where, its unit members voted for or against the name change. You can then determine, and please share with all of us, why you (apparently) did not participate in your local unit vote on the name change issue.
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Old 12-14-2005, 08:09 PM   #73
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Speaking of voting - I may be mistaken - but I was under the impression that the vote is not coming at the local level until the Spring Rally/Meeting.

I do not remember exactly what was said at our meeting in the Fall - but there was definitely mention of the word "Airstream" possibly being added to the Club name. We were asked to think on it and discuss it with fellow members and come prepared to vote in the Spring - apparently a name will be provided for us to vote on.

Our unit vote is then supposed to be taken to the Region - of which then goes to the International in June/July.....is it not???

One last point a name change does not improve or correct any issues within the club to it's existing members. And for those who think this is an attempt to correct all those inadequacies of the club - well you are dreaming in techni-colour. If nothing else it may improve exposure, identity, towards the club by new potential members and "corporate partners".

Someone mentioned about this forum being the ideal club - yes we discuss a lot of great ideas, many have had a chance to attend some pretty cool Rallies - but to tote the 10,000 number might be a bit missleading.

Of the 10,000 how many are really active, how many of them are 1 posters, and how many could be dropped off the list with no activity over 2 years???
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Old 12-14-2005, 08:21 PM   #74
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Called them

I called www.wbcci.org today. The lady wasn't very helpful....just that everything will be answered at the BOARD meeting at the Winter Fiesta Rally in Texas.

She stated that the decision to change the name has been made, to do so, now at the Board room, they will vote on the names....

I bet they go with this one: Airstream owners Association Inc.

Any other takers....listen to our VAP (www.theVAP.com) show on the 22nd, you'll be sorry if you miss it!

Happy Holidays everyone!

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Old 12-14-2005, 08:32 PM   #75
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Old 12-14-2005, 08:40 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT6921

Someone mentioned about this forum being the ideal club - yes we discuss a lot of great ideas, many have had a chance to attend some pretty cool Rallies - but to tote the 10,000 number might be a bit missleading.

Of the 10,000 how many are really active, how many of them are 1 posters, and how many could be dropped off the list with no activity over 2 years???
I'm about to bust your bubble. Do this with any club, run the numbers... so many paid members, so many unpaid, or lapsed members, so many members come to meetings, so many volunteers to help with club activities. How many attended more than two meetings? And the killer.... how many showed up for the free Christmas party? And brought their families! How many pay thier dues, but only attend free functions?
I know a local veterans groups with 140 paid members. They are lucky to get seven out to meetings! Lucky to get five to do a party for nursing home residents. But by golly! Last week, sixty three came to the members Christmas Party, and had the club buy their meal!
It makes no difference what kind of club, these things are pretty consistant.

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Old 12-15-2005, 12:01 AM   #77
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Exact same dynamic in ....

Cedars et al -

This is the EXACT same dynamic in every volunteer organization I have ever been a part of - either as leadership, spectator, helper or volunteer. Everyone shows for the 'free stuff' and nobody has time for when "help" or "work" is needed. They all look at the floor, talk about sick relatives ( maybe they are, maybe the aren't!) or answer pagers that aren't going off.....

Sorry, said I wouldn't post again on this but this issue really gets my blood going and I can't keep that promise.... Sigh.

As a matter of fact, I have after 20+ years of volunteerism, decided to walk away from most organizations I have volunteered to, sadly to see that several have died - and most have flourished under new and "better", certainly different, leadership.

Me showing I can't be quiet means about this issue, I care!!!! After all....

All this discussion is GREAT but will it lead to MORE involvement after the initial broohaa is over... Kind of like the banquet.... The people all fade into the woodwork again.

Will things ever change !????

Sign me off, again,

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Old 12-15-2005, 07:52 AM   #78
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Quote:
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Requesting input and taking a vote to a name change are two completely different things. You canít change the club name Ė a name thatís been around for 50 years without a vote by the membership as a whole. You can say thatís not in the bylaws Ė but this is a MAJOR change for the club.STINK!

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While this issue can be made that we aren't individually voting for the chosen name, and this is something I would like to see, the fact remains that the survey asked a yes/no question as to whether you believed that there should be a name change , the majority of the responders said yes and this was mailed to every member within their Blue Beret. I feel the International was acting within its bounds by pursuing this based on the responses from individual members.

Obviously our unit was made aware also and we supported that change and advised our unit representative to support a change. To me your real question is to your local unit President as to how they disseminated this info locally.

Those who chose not to respond to the survey can't complain that they had no input. I welcomed the fact that leadership attempted to get the pulse of the membership.

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Old 12-15-2005, 07:56 AM   #79
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Not trying to be in a bubble - (but it sounds like I live in a box!) if the "vote" groundwork for a final name change is well on it's way - meaningn Cedars - I guess 70%?? were not at the banquet.

Silver Toy you keep signin right on. The reason these "Orgs" dwindle is because people "quite".

I guess we are in a catch 22.

The older members don't volunteer any more - because they have done their bit for king and country

The younger ones don't volunteer (not because they are too busy!!!) because the don't want to volunteer to run something they don't like doing.

So it leaves (many people like you guys here on this forum - not all though) to try and keep things going - volunteer, babysit and mediate as well as try and have a good time - it too can be a tall order and hence more volunteers losts.

I really don't care either way on the Name - as it will have no bearing on what has gone on in this organzation and will not improve all the problems. It may give the "longtimers" one more things to say - see they have made another change. But that is about it. If it was so clearly important to them as well then where are their voices to.

If it turns out to be a dictatorship within the club - then folks there will be a bigger problem than a name change on our hands - there will be a coup

That may start here but should filter all the way down to the Units - and I totally agree that everyone should have a right to vote on this. So if you do not want to see the name changed then submitt a the name WBCCI as your units suggestion (if we even have that opportunity) for those who want change add in the A sumwhere that it will flow like WBACCI - I mean really how many times is the acrynym ever said in full.

I just mentioned to a Stoney Lake Ladies Lunch that we belonged to the Wally Byam Caravan Club International and before I could get the next word in - they were killing themselves laughing that it sounded like I belonged to a club with a Grand Pooobaaaa! It was brought up in the context of discussing whether to make our own Red Hat Society Charter......

Again just my two cents.... and now I will be writing a letter to my Unit Pres to question what exactly has he been shown about the Name Change process. Since obviously I was stuffing my mouth with cake at the time it came up at a meeting - or maybe we were late and still parking the rig????
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Old 12-15-2005, 08:03 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcanavera

Those who chose not to respond to the survey can't complain that they had no input. I welcomed the fact that leadership attempted to get the pulse of the membership.

Jack

Jack point well made....but there is another small point - we on the average receive our BB about 8 weeks later than the date it is sent out. I think they wait to get everyones out there and if they have enough then send them across the border - not sure if we had a chance to respond.

Then on a second note - surveys are to lay the ground work - for a full discusion and take a minimum of a year to follow through. A survey is but a sampling of the membership in any org - and the next big step is to get or shoot for majority responses - not a majority of the responses received.

And then again - it may be a moot point anyway - as those people who are active in this club and pay attention to it's administration, obviously read everything and attend as much as they can - have "spoken". So on that point we may be waisting time crying over spilt milk - and better get in there for the new name development - or we could end up with something well lets not even go there...
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