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Old 12-12-2005, 11:15 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT6921
When something works well a procedure is written - if someone breaks procedure a rule is written, when we want continuity in order then By-Laws are written......but in the face of a young family - or those of us with or without children/pets - who just like the out doors and to meet people but are not quite into our 50', 60'. 70-'s it is all way to "official" We just want to have fun
That hits the nail on the head. I see too many old guard who are obsessed with rules and regulations. One member compares them to the CC&Rs that keep neighborhoods nice. I don't like CC&R neighborhoods, and I don't think they're nice. [on edit: I will say they are 'nice', but they are not interesting. I would rather be in a neighborhood with toys on the lawn, a hoop in the street, and RVs and boats in the driveways.] I can't understand why people submit themselves to all these confining rules just to put on an air of 'nice'.

WBCCI is like that. There are all these rules, and people don't necessarily like them, but apparently we can't get twenty people together without having rules to keep them in control. Inevitably someone breaks a rule, and someone else is whispering about it the next day. "Did you see so-and-so brought her dog to the campfire?" "Did you see her bring out that bottle of booze? Right in front of everyone?" "How come they don't have their flags up?" or "Their flags aren't displayed properly" or "Does the club know about that Margarita Machine? I'm sure that's not allowed!". It just goes on and on. We just roll our eyes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GT6921
There is nothing to stop anyone from calling up some members and having a fun gathering - whether it be at your own property, local campground or a municipal fairground. You can call it whatever you want - and have fun.
Well, no I think they have rules about that too. You have to do certain things to announce a get-together, and if you don't do it right then it's not a 'club event', and if it's not a club event then it's not covered by insurance. And no one wants to go to an event that's not covered by insurance! No, if you want to get members together, you have to plan it a year ahead of time, put it in the annual event calendar, publish it in the BB, and god only knows what other hoops must be jumped through. I got roped into hosting a Lunch, but I cannot plan far enough ahead to host a rally! I'll have to stick to Forum Rallys

But what can we do? As I have been told "those rules are there for a reason. Everything that can go wrong at a rally has in the last 50 years, and there is a rule to make sure it doesn't happen again, so everyone can have a good time." It's a hard position to argue with.

How would you make any changes anyway? They have such a cumbersome government in place that it's like getting a bill passed in congress to get them to make changes. Like welcoming the new Basecamp - are they really going to turn their nose up at those people? Is there any way to get them to change the rules to include them? Probably not, since old-timers are still talking about how they just included the Argosys (what, ten or fifteen years ago), and just last year included trailers that weren't self contained, thus welcoming the vintage units officially in to the club. I don't think the rules would even allow a local unit to allow Basecamps if they wanted to, because the National unit decides who can belong, and local units can't overrule the national unit rules. It just gives me a headache to think about it!

I have also gotten involved to try and help make a difference, and I think they are really trying, but the last thing I want to do on the few precious weekends that I sneak away to go camping is listen to people quote rules and regulations.
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Old 12-12-2005, 11:21 AM   #42
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Heeeeey

I resemble that remark!

[quote=GT6921]

(Now not to offend any of those younger than "25" cause I surely do not want to do that) but wheel interested - you could classify yourself as "vintage" being over 25 years of age.

They just won't see their way clear to allow me to make a regular spectacle of myself...

(as when the vintage units are gathered for display at an International convention.) But I certainly am a "vintage unit", twice over, actually.
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Old 12-12-2005, 11:43 AM   #43
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With this cold I am feeling twice over +10 but still want to have fun.

Now I wonder if we showed up somewhere with "Ella" (th poor baby that was in a jackknife roll over) How about a meeting of the Classic Airstream Club - she would qualify - she is just a bit mangled - but all lights work, brakes and all safety too so she passed the road worthy side of things - in fact she only leaks if we take the front and rear window plastic off.

I know there are "rules" for hanging or drying your wet towels - but what about cosmetically challenged Airstreams....

Seriously - those who attend the Forum Rally get togethers - have any of you considered the insurance implications??? I never even gave insurance a second thought - you have your own for your own property and for your rig and vehicle. The fair grounds have their own, the parks all have their own all with Liability.

So the only insurance that is really needed is for the "Officers" of the Organization - and that is purely to cover their butts should they be negligent in their duties that could either affect a member or professional staff - and is required as part of corporate law - for those organizations who are incorporated which WBCCI is. It saves the Board from being sued individually but rather can be sued as a corporation. -But little do they know if found negligent their "umberella" can be revoked when related to professional staff salaries...... which I hardly think has anything to do with the 4:00 happy hours, or lining up for breakfast muffins - or hooking up to trickle power - or walking the Blue Dog to the hole

Get the people with the interest in place - such as this forum or do a telephone list of people who own Airstreams around you. Find a venue where you can park either boondock or hook ups -post a time, form a circle, square, oblong, tirangle and bring a and talk about what makes your rig your pride and joy or ask a question on what works and what does not - and you are keeping the spirit of Wally's product alive, talk about your life experiences with family, parents, children, pets, places and a variety of life activities, have fun and enjoy the outdoors and you will keep Wally's philosophy alive

No By-law, regulation, policy or proceedure can take it away....
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Old 12-12-2005, 12:06 PM   #44
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Though I'm not a member, IMO the call letters WBCCI do not roll off the tongue very easily. I think "W" is the culprit; too may syllables. If 5 letters are to be used, it should almost be melodic; like N[double A]CP. Or, the call letters could spell a word. - Roy
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Old 12-12-2005, 01:18 PM   #45
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Culture Change

Okay, let's look at why all this occurs. First of all it is built into the heirarchy of the organization. The amount of work and therefore time involved in being an officer is immense. That is why younger people don't want the jobs. My Wife and I have hosted two different parties and it is a lot to do,and you get no help. That is just the way it is done. When I was running other entities in a former life, I did not do the work myself. That is not what leadership is about. You must delegate!! Get a crew working together on it. Doing that you can involve the younger folks and get their input without overwhelming them.

Leadership also means talking to members and getting input on what they would like to see and would help in doing. It is not doing all of it yourself and getting all of the glory! We have a lady in our Unit who is organizing a caravan to the International by herself. I feel sorry for her. It is an immense undertaking.

Leadership does mean working hard for the group, but being involved with everything that goes on, not doing all of one thing.

You can't change a culture all at once without using violence! You have to alter it a little at a time. You plant a seed of an idea, let it be rejected once or twice, but if it is a good idea, it will take root eventually. That is how you effect change in an organization.

The first seed I would plant is to change the way our Officers are selected. If you have a really good president, why get rid of him or her once a year is up. What, Are we all taking turns at it?? If they want to continue to serve, set up a vote or some way to elect them again.

Let the Officers poll the members as what they would like to do and help the members do it! Aren't we all in this for fun? The heck with the status and glory!!!
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Old 12-12-2005, 07:27 PM   #46
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It looks like some of the chapters are already changing their name:
Our WBCCI Link Directory (note the New Mexico chapter)

What if they could have two names, WBCCI and the Airstream RV Owners Association?
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Old 12-12-2005, 07:53 PM   #47
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I don't know

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy R
It looks like some of the chapters are already changing their name:
Our WBCCI Link Directory (note the New Mexico chapter)

What if they could have two names, WBCCI and the Airstream RV Owners Association?
I think The Airstream RV Association sounds very stodgy and corporate like condo management or a conglomerate. After all we are all a bit metalling and traverse. Can no one think of something with a little flair?
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:40 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefrobrts
Change will come, but people have to be willing to take it in small steps, and I think this is seriously a step in the right direction.
Exactly my thoughts, evolution v. revolution! My wife & I are early 50's & luckily retired. All of our friends are still working. I've taken a V.P. position with our unit, they really want to evolve & "let the 'kids' do it" ! Many changes need to be made & I believe they will come, only slowly.
I will compile all of these thoughts & present them to the IBT in Jan. Please help those of us that are trying to effect change & post your opinion, let your voice be heard! ...boy what a cliche . Also, your unit president is obligated to take your vote in the club to the delegates meeting every year, don't overlook that opportunity.
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Old 12-13-2005, 06:34 AM   #49
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As a gen x'er ... the name wont change things.
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Old 12-13-2005, 09:01 AM   #50
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Lightbulb Culture Change

I recieved some nice comments on my last tirade, so here is another. You asked for it, as I am usually reticent about getting into the debates.

Did you ever see the Rock Soup Recipe for change? George Patton loved it. Here it is.

An old Hobo goes to a door in a small town and knocks. The lady of the house comes to the door and asks what he wants. He replies that all he wants is will she fill his cooking pot with water. Seeing no problem, she does this. She hands it out the door back to him and he replies "thanks", and taking a small rock from his pocket, he drops it into the water. The lady curiously asks, "what is the rock for"? The Hobo replies, "rock soup". The lady responds that you can't make soup with a rock. The Hobo replies that is all he has. The lady says "wait a minute, I have some extra vegetables I can give you". She returns with a sack of vegges.

The old Hobo goes next door and knocks and asks if they will fill his pot with water and gets some meat. Three or four more houses, and he has a stew!!

That is how one causes change. A little at a time and with people volunteering. Works almost every time.

So how does one work that out. The WBCCI is the pot and the members are the homeowners. The Hobo is the leader wishing to change something for the better.
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Old 12-13-2005, 11:08 AM   #51
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Great Point

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbraw
My wife and I joined WBCCI several years ago after we bought our used Airstream. We wanted to learn more about how to fix and operate this brand of camper. What we got as well were a lot of new friends who had been in the organization for many years.
What a great thread!!! What's amazing is that people will remain people and clubs will always be clubs, because they're 'stocked' with people. If there's something you don't like about WBCCI, such as the events, discuss it with your president. That's what my wife and I did.

Yep...we're really new into this, but love the great advice and tips we have received in regards to our vintage AS. What's even better, is the fact that I can assist the oldtimers in supervising a maintainance operation. Those of you who have experienced 5 AS owners 'helping' you fix a problem know what I mean.

What an awesome group. My only issue is that our group is stuck on having a 'rally hall' for every function. What ever happened to going to state and national parks and sitting around a campfire? I bet that's how this whole thing got started, so let's not forget our roots.

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Old 12-13-2005, 04:07 PM   #52
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Let them know you want a campfire, and show up at the next rally with wood! That's what we did, and sure enough they planned a campfire for the next rally. Everyone had a great time until the rain chased us back to our trailers The old timers said they hadn't done that in years and didn't know why they ever stopped.

We also made our feelings known about wanting to camp in state parks or at least more woodsy ones - no more of those 'parking-lot' RV parks, and so when they were planning next year's rallys they thought about what kind of park they were planning to have it at, and moved most of them to state parks. It's going to be a great year coming up!

Our unit has really tried to listen to the input of the younger people, and to accomodate them, and I think that makes the younger folks feel encouraged to join and participate!

I enjoy these WBCCI discussions because I get so many good suggestions for things our own unit can do (or avoid doing). I make sure to take them back and pass them along to the members who don't get online.
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Old 12-13-2005, 04:11 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefrobrts
We also made our feelings known about wanting to camp in state parks or at least more woodsy ones - no more of those 'parking-lot' RV parks, and so when they were planning next year's rallys they thought about what kind of park they were planning to have it at, and moved most of them to state parks. It's going to be a great year coming up!
We are doing two this year in state parks. We are calling them mini-rally's with a Friday start date and a Sunday end. No offical programs, tours, or meetings. It will be interesting to see how many come out for these.

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Old 12-13-2005, 04:43 PM   #54
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There are so many people out there all thinking the same - and it is happening - things are changing - but as several have pointed out with some welcoming analogies - slow is the order of the day but by the sounds of it - it can be steady!

I am curious as to the members here - what is the average size of your Unit and what are the average numbers that attend your functions?

I see a huge brick wall in front of me - facing a Unit that has over 200 members. I would love to recommend subdividing it - but I think I would give the Board a coronary.

But I know there could be so many more events and activities that would attract more members out - more to volunteer if they had smaller Rallies, Rendezvous or "gatherings". People could travel more but closer to home - so they could enjoy a Friday to Sunday Rally.

We could still have the big Rally sort of like holding a mini International - which might attract more members to attend. We have an average of 70 trailers come out to the two Rallies and 35-40 to the Rendezvous - yep with the size of our Club we just put in the bare minimum to meet the WBCCI Unit requirements - go figure.

How can I approach the Unit to consider running smaller and more frequent events - beside just doing it on our own???
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Old 12-13-2005, 06:35 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefrobrts
We also made our feelings known about wanting to camp in state parks or at least more woodsy ones - no more of those 'parking-lot' RV parks, and so when they were planning next year's rallys they thought about what kind of park they were planning to have it at, and moved most of them to state parks. It's going to be a great year coming up!
We also prefer to camp in state parks, national parks, and national forests. In fact, even with our 30' Classic, we prefer boondocking. I have wondered....what's the attraction (other than being able to fit a large number of vehicles onto flat spaces) to the fairgrounds and other, to use Stefrobrt's term, "parking-lot RV parks?" I thought that one thing Wally Byam liked to do was caravan to out-of-the-way places and circle the trailers. In fact, Anza-Borrego Desert State Park had a picture of a group of Airstreams circled in their 2005 park newsletter.
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Old 12-13-2005, 09:12 PM   #56
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Really isnt any of my business but....

Iíve been lurking on this thread for some time now and in the spirit of the forum thought I might weigh in. My upfront disclosure is I am not a member and have no plans to become one in the near future. When I first purchased my í68 Trade Wind in August, I looked at joining and decided against it. Why? First of all, the dues seemed like a lot of money for not much return; join a local add $, want to join the vintage group add more $. Then reading here, I got the distinct impression that the club was, to paraphrase others, a mobile home owners association. Not my idea of an exciting weekend.

I know there is a lot of talk on this forum about how to stem flagging membership numbers and in doing so, preserve the club. From my perspective, I see no indication that the club is interested in changing, to which I would make the following points. First, there is no reason it should, itís the members club and they should keep it however makes them happy. Second, it will almost certainly wither and die as the current membership ages. This is neither a good thing nor a bad thing, it simply is. Maybe the club Wally had has seen its time. Iím sure it meets the needs of many people as it is.

It seems to me though, that the spirit of hitting the road for adventure with an Airstream had been lost to other considerations. Perhaps instead of asking the club to change, a more productive move for someone like myself who would like to have an Airstream club would be to form one like WE want. So what would such a club look like to me? I think it would look remarkably like this forum. Outings would be much like I imagine forum rallies to be; inexpensive, informal, and friendly. The lack of officers and bylaws would prevent the development of a lot of extraneous silliness that I would prefer to avoid. Now that I think of it, that club pretty much exists, apparently has just over 10,000 members now who all participate at the level that best serves them; all that is lacking are membership cards, which is just fine with me.

So, all in all, I think I have found my Airstream home here in the forums. I come here several times a day to see what is going on and I am starting to feel like I know many of you already and I know meeting you on the road will be great fun. In closing an already to long post on a subject that I am sure many of you will consider (perhaps rightly so) to be none of my affair, it probably doesnít matter what happens to the club beyond a twinge of nostalgic loss. To paraphrase an election slogan from the last century: itís the Airstreaming stupid, not the club. Finally, to any dues paying members of the club who have been offended by my observations or comments in any way I sincerely apologize, such was not my intention.
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Old 12-13-2005, 09:13 PM   #57
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65GT, I think you're way out of line there - insinuating that somehow a smal group of power hungry leaders are pushing this decision to change the name down the throats of the membership. That's not the way it works. The members voted. Their unit reps took their decision to international. The reps voted, and the decision was made. The majority wants to see a name change. Now they at the international board meeting have to decide what that name will be. It's democracy in action.
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Old 12-13-2005, 10:55 PM   #58
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I feel the same as Rodney. I looked at joining the club, but to be honest, could not find one reason to join. Recently a thread on this forum discused the idea of non member guests at the ralleys. That would be a good start, but of all the WBCCI ralleys listed on this forum's Rally Calendar, I can not find one that says "guests welcome". You can try and find information from the various chapter web sites, but most are rarely updated and many chapters do not even have a web site. A good example of this is the cost of membership at large. I have seen various prices from a low of $60 to a high of $75. I will wait and see what changes the club makes in the future. I wish them well.
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:21 AM   #59
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Is it the $55, or what?

Hi all -

Seen lots of teeth gnashin, and thrashing about, all over what the club is,isn't, offers, doesn't offer, etc....

I mean we are talking about $55 here. That is 1 tank of gas/diesel, people!

Give WBCCI a try!!!! The people I met at the first get together are worth that amount alone! And the 'reach out and touch it' knowledge base where I can call on them to help, right here where I need them....

I get the feeling that it isn't about the $, it is more about the "I won't join any club that will have ME" thing.... Apologies to Groucho! Come on people, toss caution to the wind and try it. One year trial period.

This reminds me of the people that didn't vote, but bitch up and down about 'the government this... and that..." If you don't vote? Don't bitch! Wanna change it, any part of it, all of it...? Get in there are get your feet wet....!!!!!!!!! Get off the porch and join the game people.... or stay up there and hush up.

Done lecturing!

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Old 12-14-2005, 07:32 AM   #60
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The way we did it WDCU

We did not do paper....that is old WBCCI....come on GT.

WDCU unit president sent out email to all of our members, and we replied with our vote! Most of us replied with the new name too....Here stated that the officers would take the units consolidated inputs and vote at International.

So, what did your unit vote at International GT. If it was to change the name, you need to start there.

I know our unit vote was to Change....I expect that the board will come out with a list, for us to all vote on again to make official in Salem? Sheri, your thoughts?

Rob
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