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Old 02-05-2006, 07:54 PM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinky
So can anyone say in simple terms and less than 50 words, exactly what ordinary members of the club-formerly-known-as-WBCCI can do right now to oppose this silly new name? Seems like it is an unstoppable freight train at this point.

Write letters?
Send email?
Picket at the International Rally?
Civil disobedience?
or just gripe endlessly here on a forum that has no real influence on the club leadership?
I plan on attending the next major rally, finding as many club officers as I can, and explain to them politely, and in no uncertain terms what I think of such a boneheaded manuever!
If that won't work, maybe after the name change, we people that don't like the new name for the old club can always form another one. It can be based on caravanning around the world in our Airstreams, and at the same time honoring the man that started both the Airstream company, and touring the world in our trailers. I even have, after much research and deliberation, discovered a name we could use for our new club. it would be a name derived from the name of the man that founded Airstream, Wally Byam. It would also denote that we enjoy traveling, or caravanning, in our trailers. Since it would hopefully be a worldwide club, it would be international in scope.
Therefore, the name of the new club would be the Wally Byam Caravan Club International, we could use the initials...
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Old 02-05-2006, 08:13 PM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinky
So can anyone say in simple terms and less than 50 words, exactly what ordinary members of the club-formerly-known-as-WBCCI can do right now to oppose this silly new name? Seems like it is an unstoppable freight train at this point.

Write letters?
Send email?
Picket at the International Rally?
Civil disobedience?
or just gripe endlessly here on a forum that has no real influence on the club leadership?
Some of that sounds like fun...LOL

Simplist? Just look at your newsletter and e-mail your officers and ask about the vote and tell them how you stand.

Want more? Help to get the word out, it is NOT too late, some may not even be aware that the name is trying to be changed.
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Old 02-06-2006, 08:22 AM   #243
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The Carnival Club

Channel 8 News covered our Vintage Rally last weekend. They billed us on the air as the Wally Byam Carnival Club. Best argument for a name change I have heard in a long time!

By the way, the general feeling regarding the name change in every member I have been in contact with is "Fine".
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Old 02-06-2006, 08:57 AM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pahaska
By the way, the general feeling regarding the name change in every member I have been in contact with is "Fine".
That's odd - the experience I am having is quite the opposite. Everybody I am talking to is opposed to the name change.

So much for using anecdotal examples as the consensus opinion on any topic, huh?

BTW, Are the people you are talking to aware that the new name proposed completely departs from the original motion to only ADD airstream to the name? Do you mention that to them or only just mention that you/they favor any name change at all.
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Old 02-06-2006, 09:13 AM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pahaska
Channel 8 News covered our Vintage Rally last weekend. They billed us on the air as the Wally Byam Carnival Club. Best argument for a name change I have heard in a long time!

By the way, the general feeling regarding the name change in every member I have been in contact with is "Fine".
ROFL

That's rich John. Thanks for passing on the funny. I can't stop laughing. Well you must admit Wally was a sight on the little bike. Do you do any tricks? I know we have a sword swallowing couple in the club, and Obie the clown.

Our local unit meeting showed unanimous support against the name change. But then we do not have the higher higher officers in our unit.

However if everyone changed their name everytime the press mutilated a name, there would be a lot of people with new names. Goodness our station can't even get the news feed right.
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Old 02-06-2006, 09:15 AM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
BTW, Are the people you are talking to aware that the new name proposed completely departs from the original motion to only ADD airstream to the name? Do you mention that to them or only just mention that you/they favor any name change at all.
The people I am referring to heard the current name proposal two days ago directly from the International 3rd VP and they were a large part of our unit and, by far, the most active part of the unit. They are all quite aware of the original proposal.
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Old 02-06-2006, 10:24 AM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pahaska
The people I am referring to heard the current name proposal two days ago directly from the International 3rd VP and they were a large part of our unit and, by far, the most active part of the unit. They are all quite aware of the original proposal.
Hmm, I wonder if those members are aware of ALL the the issues like:
  1. Deviation from the original motion
  2. Cost associated with the name change
  3. No marketing survey done to validate the name change
  4. No evidence to prove that numbers will increase after the change.
  5. Etc, etc, etc...
I wonder just what does an International 3rd VP tell people when discussing the name change... Did the 3rd VP offer any opposing viewpoints on the matter? We did at a presentation at our meeting. We stated the facts as they were documented (on these forums) making sure that the supporting viewpoint was presented not in a negative light but in a neutral light. Did the International 3rd VP do that as well?? or did he just tell the supporting viewpoint.

I find it interesting that when presented with ALL the facts and issues, members tend to not support the name change (at least as evidenced by these forums and by my experience).
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:01 PM   #248
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Still Have Questions

I notice that the questions I posed to John went unanswered even though he has been on the forums several times. I am disappointed but I still have questions about the Int. 3rd VP's presentation.

What justification (if any) was given for the modification to the original motion to only add airstream to the name. Or did it just go that way???


Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
Hmm, I wonder if those members are aware of ALL the the issues like:
  1. Deviation from the original motion
  2. Cost associated with the name change
  3. No marketing survey done to validate the name change
  4. No evidence to prove that numbers will increase after the change.
  5. Etc, etc, etc...
I wonder just what does an International 3rd VP tell people when discussing the name change... Did the 3rd VP offer any opposing viewpoints on the matter? We did at a presentation at our meeting. We stated the facts as they were documented (on these forums) making sure that the supporting viewpoint was presented not in a negative light but in a neutral light. Did the International 3rd VP do that as well?? or did he just tell the supporting viewpoint.

I find it interesting that when presented with ALL the facts and issues, members tend to not support the name change (at least as evidenced by these forums and by my experience).
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:24 PM   #249
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Simple

In the process of a 5-minute talk, the 3rd VP gave a simple statement of the results of the IBT and that the name change would be brought to a vote at unit level. Simply that. No pros, no cons, no arguments, no questions, no controversy.

The majority of the WBCCI world do not have their panties in a bunnch over this subject.
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Old 02-09-2006, 02:47 PM   #250
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That's why I don't wear them anymore. I like it when you talk like that.

Quote:
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The majority of the WBCCI world do not have their panties in a bunch
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Old 02-09-2006, 03:00 PM   #251
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Do you know how officer are selected/elected?? Apparently not. EVERY member has a vote, and if your unit does it right, your individual vote is counted and recorded. Have your Unit President find the process in the Constitution - - and follow it!!
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Old 02-09-2006, 03:13 PM   #252
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I tried to stay away from this topic - I did - I really did - but I just can not!!!

You know the funny thing is something similar happened at our winter luncheon - that was attended by over 100 members from our unit (nope again I was not in attendance - shucks!!!) A bit too expensive for just for a dinner - would have cost us around $300 with the stay over gas & meals.

To somewhat the same words - IBT bla bla bla "name change" bla bla bla and will be voted on at our Spring Rally - end of statement.....not a single question, raised eyebrow, or comment.

a) indifference
b) don't care
c) not aware of the change, to shy to question
d) waiting to receive some information before passing judgment/vote
e) want the new name AOAI

I would bet my life that a),b)& c) would outweigh e) in a heart beat. But sure hope that d) is the cause of the silence.

And the neigh sayers here - including myself - are vocal because we have been caught not with our panties in a twist - but have been caught with our pants down!

If you look closely - you will see several members who are very vocal in this are recent joiners to the club - coming into the process in mid swing. While we grab a quick beer, struggle to find our seats, glance at the program - the batter just hit a grand-slam - from outside the batters box! But the game goes on....The existing crowd are split - half does not care they just want to see someone hit the ball and players running the bases rules or no rules - the other half don't care - cause they are out and about and watching a ball game with friends. The movie Logan's Run comes to mind and the Carousel.

It is the people who question, who want to understand, need to know the reasoning and above all need the justification to make such radical decisions that are being called the "trouble makers" and that we have our panties in a twist. What has this place become?

Is it fair to line up and just follow the person in front of you off a cliff?

Our delegates let this happen last year - they let a motion come forth that changed from its original intent - the fact that the IBT allowed it to happen without a point of order or question is scary enough - but then the new motion has been interpreted by IBT completely different to that of the majority of the delegates present. How can this stuff happen? - why do we let it happen and why does no one other than a few here really stand up and say - hey wait just a damn minute. Are we sure we know what we are doing and what the consequences will be. Where does the accountability rest??? I am a paying member and I want answers...

Look closely folks I appeal to you - we are asking very serious questions all over these threads and there are NO answers coming from anywhere - we are not just asking here either - of course we are asking our Presidents our Delegates, our Regions and NO ONE is coming up with anything or has anything to justify what is coming down the pipe.

Will the rationale/justification or reasoning be spelled out in a future blue beret if so why was it not presented before the initial motion. Ah good question - because the first motion was - do we want to change the name and add airstream. Yep we got passed that one - and then we gave a directive to IBT to do their research - find a good place in the club name to stick the word Airstream and tell us exactly how this is going to affect us and how much it will cost and the best way to implement the change.

Yoooo Mama - we have a vote now staring us in the face to a completely new name and I now see a new logo is rumored to be on its way too. And with what backup - not one shread of info, no letters, no documents why there is nothing to even represent a general discussion of a sampling of members on this topic. Why sure we did - we talked at the local level a 100 times about should we add the word Airstream to our name.......

Come on is it me - am I stuck in a Stepford Wives movie here. I have heard of the generation before ours being referred to as the "Silent Generation" but this is beyond comprehension.....

Do you think there might even be a separate document from the IBT addressed directly to the Unit Presidents on its way prior to March 30th that will state anything beyond listing motions to be voted on??

We are coming up to the final vote this spring! - and there is no professional or otherwise logical information printed anywhere that justifies the need, want or requirement for a change other than adding Airstream to the existing name that came from the membership and AOAI that has come from the IBT

So far I have seen the following comments used by the pro-AOAI
- the word Carnival mistaken for the word Caravan
- no one knows who Wally Byam is - Lame neither did I until I joined the club but I sure as heck new I was joining an Airstream club without having the name in it - pretty hard to miss the trailer.
- AOAI will increase membership closest to a rationale but where is the HOW?

I challenged people to come up with the pros for the AOAI - None came forth - I asked the region for background information and nothing is available other than the "motion" I ask my president and - "well we have been mumbling about adding Airstream for years"....I come here and see a lot of people against with some pretty good reasons, justification and rationale.
But those for the new name use Wally bashing comments - to old, out dated and so on - but none of this is rationale or justification for change

Is the name not working??? What has changed - I get it Wally did not invent the Airstream, we don't go on any Caravans anymore, we have changed from a Club to an Association?? Come on people... it has worked for 50 years so all of a sudden it has stopped working because the membership numbers are dropping???? I sure do not look that dumb do I ???

If there is research and documentation out there that can justify AOAI - all you Yeah sayers - then please come on, give it to us Neigh sayers, so you can once and for all shut us up.......

And there is my 5 minute talk
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Old 02-09-2006, 05:17 PM   #253
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Just wondering...

When did Airstream Co. give the okay to the WBCCI to use the Airstream name in the club name? I was under the impression that the company didn't necessarily want to be associated with the club, and that they don't freely let the name be used.

-J
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Old 02-09-2006, 09:46 PM   #254
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I have sensed a measure of discontent in the membership of this organization that goes beyond a simple name change.

It seems there is a polarization that is prevalent that leads, invariably to -"us and them"- in even daily discourse.

I have tried to be a contributing member and have been rejected, time and again by the airstreams "dominant authorities". This having nothing to do with a name change, I don't care so much about name changes, this is even more rudiment.

People (members) seem to be threatened by simple offerings of new ideas relative to trailer repair. It seems a "siding" occurs, a lack of inclusion, a political process that would rival the ivy league. You then realize you are no longer an accepted member of "the club".

If, in an effort to find a solution to making fixes, one suggests something unusual like - lo-jack, as a way to deter stealing, or the simple use of muriatic acid as a cheaper way to prepare metal for painting, instead of a more expensive alternative, people become offended and insulting in their replies back.

Unless you are an established "member" of the group, if you could not claim the true name of the airstream creed as your own, if you do not have the official (flag bracket) you were spit out.

Of course, with such a clique, one risks being banished completely and forvever, one risks being abandoned by the sacred fathers.

I have seen more reasonable members try and soften their cronnies negitive, immature replies with suggestions of tolerance and advise, asking for a less divided membership.

I just want to wish this group peace and good luck and to suggest you strive to be more tolerant.
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Old 02-09-2006, 09:48 PM   #255
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Thanks John,

Negative Karma for the panties comment - it is suggestine and rude, especially for a moderator. I am truly disappointed.
Disappointed more still that you evade the question - did the 3rd explain the reason for modifying the motion.

One can't help but wonder of the secret society that might exist at the IBT level. You are very chummy with some of the higher-ups I hear so I do understand your profound support of this motion - you are on the ladder and on your way up.

Roy,

My impression is that you take for granted the experiences of the members in the WBCCI. You assume that because I am a newer member that I do not understand the process or am unfamiliar with the constitution and bylaws. You fully exemplify why WBCCI suffers dropping membership levels.

For your benefit - I am a 3 time past president of the Astronomical Society of Nevada, an organization with a 71 year history. I have seen that organizations membership grow by nearly 50 percent during my tenure (a feat that not one IBT can claim). That feat was accomplished by simply paying attention to the needs of the members and never necessitated a name change.

I am also the vice president of the Northern nevada Science Coalition, an organization who is the host city committee for the 2009 Intel International Science and Engineering Fair in Reno, Nevada. Our group is bringing the worlds largest pre-college International science fair to Reno in 2009. This event will mean millons of dollars in scholarships for the students and millions more fund-raising to support the our local community. This event will involve up to 5000 students and tens of thousands of parents and family not to mention over 1800 judges which include Nobel laureates. And the two aforementioned groups are 501(c)(3) public non-profit groups that are membership driven. I do have experience in this area and I do not need you to downplay my experience and successes in this type of group management.

In all of my volunteer activities I have not stooped so low as to insult the value or contribution of any member in any group I have been a leader in.
I am fully aware of constitutional process and am proud to say that I have actually read Robert's Rules of Order.

When I say that you exemplify why WBCCI suffers dropping membership levels, I mean this; You insult the members who are lower than yourself and propagate the elitism that exists in the group. And it is your "holier-than-thou" attitude that drives people away from the group in droves. You are the kind of person that the younger members of the club, avoid. You take no time to "get to know" the members but diss their potential contributions in the group.

Oh, and by the way...Our unit, which has gone way past the elitist attitudes that you so strongly personify, enjoys the largest increase in membership in Region 12 and defies the spiral in membership the rest of WBCCI is experiencing. The formula that the leadership in our unit uses comes straight from Wally and his creed which they have adopted as the primary focus of the group. It also comes by their determination to be inclusive with respect to the members, open to new ideas and by providing opportunities for everyone to participate in the way that best suits them. All of this seems to be the antithesis of your philosophy in dealing with the membership.

If you took as much time in getting to know the members and the potential of this group as you do trying to build your own legacy in this name change this club would in fact be a better place for the newer and more progressive members that you so desperately are seeking to appeal to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pahaska
In the process of a 5-minute talk, the 3rd VP gave a simple statement of the results of the IBT and that the name change would be brought to a vote at unit level. Simply that. No pros, no cons, no arguments, no questions, no controversy.

The majority of the WBCCI world do not have their panties in a bunnch over this subject.
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Old 02-09-2006, 09:51 PM   #256
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Amen, brother! You said it so well!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyJames
I have sensed a measure of discontent in the membership of this organization that goes beyond a simple name change.

It seems there is a polarization that is prevalent that leads, invariably to -"us and them"- in even daily discourse.

I have tried to be a contributing member and have been rejected, time and again by the airstreams "dominant authorities". This having nothing to do with a name change, I don't care so much about name changes, this is even more rudiment.

People (members) seem to be threatened by simple offerings of new ideas relative to trailer repair. It seems a "siding" occurs, a lack of inclusion, a political process that would rival the ivy league. You then realize you are no longer an accepted member of "the club".

If, in an effort to find a solution to making fixes, one suggests something unusual like - lo-jack, as a way to deter stealing, or the simple use of muriatic acid as a cheaper way to prepare metal for painting, instead of a more expensive alternative, people become offended and insulting in their replies back.

Unless you are an established "member" of the group, if you could not claim the true name of the airstream creed as your own, if you do not have the official (flag bracket) you were spit out.

Of course, with such a clique, one risks being banished completely and forvever, one risks being abandoned by the sacred fathers.

I have seen more reasonable members try and soften their cronnies negitive, immature replies with suggestions of tolerance and advise, asking for a less divided membership.

I just want to wish this group peace and good luck and to suggest you strive to be more tolerant.
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Old 02-09-2006, 10:00 PM   #257
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John,

Care to comment on this one???



Quote:
Originally Posted by dougjamie
When did Airstream Co. give the okay to the WBCCI to use the Airstream name in the club name? I was under the impression that the company didn't necessarily want to be associated with the club, and that they don't freely let the name be used.

-J
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Old 03-12-2006, 04:57 PM   #258
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Buttercup,

I think this bit of information was accurate and very well said. I would like to paraphrase it for our Unit Newsletter with your permission. I agree with you 100%! It isn't the name that needs changing, it is the activities and what the clubs do in their units that has the greatest impact on members. I reviewed the survey conducted in 2004. It is interesting to note that protocols, dress codes the effectiveness of the Blue book, the Blue Beret, were all polled. In addition a 44 page booklet of member comments that discussed the format of the International rallies, the distaste for the Teen Queen piece and wearing of the blue berets, red, blue, white jackets, protocols and ceremonies were viewed as negative and passe' and instead of taking a serious look at those issues making any move towards the request for more activiteies focused around doing things, better entertainment, with less focus on pomp and circumstance they decide to change the name. Their membership spoke loud and clear and they did not listen. THAT is what is killing the club!
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Old 03-12-2006, 06:35 PM   #259
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Oh, Yes! I think it is appropriate to use any information from these forums to produce an article for your newsletter.
As a matter of fact I would be interested to see what you produce as others have done.

Also, There are many more threads on the forums about this that you could use to gather information. Just an aside, I was urged to post this name change question on the WBCCI forums, which I did. The results there (as of this writing) is 100% against the name change. We're not alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgesch
Buttercup,

I think this bit of information was accurate and very well said. I would like to paraphrase it for our Unit Newsletter with your permission. I agree with you 100%! It isn't the name that needs changing, it is the activities and what the clubs do in their units that has the greatest impact on members. I reviewed the survey conducted in 2004. It is interesting to note that protocols, dress codes the effectiveness of the Blue book, the Blue Beret, were all polled. In addition a 44 page booklet of member comments that discussed the format of the International rallies, the distaste for the Teen Queen piece and wearing of the blue berets, red, blue, white jackets, protocols and ceremonies were viewed as negative and passe' and instead of taking a serious look at those issues making any move towards the request for more activiteies focused around doing things, better entertainment, with less focus on pomp and circumstance they decide to change the name. Their membership spoke loud and clear and they did not listen. THAT is what is killing the club!
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Old 03-12-2006, 07:42 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgesch
Buttercup,

I think this bit of information was accurate and very well said. I would like to paraphrase it for our Unit Newsletter with your permission. I agree with you 100%! It isn't the name that needs changing, it is the activities and what the clubs do in their units that has the greatest impact on members. I reviewed the survey conducted in 2004. It is interesting to note that protocols, dress codes the effectiveness of the Blue book, the Blue Beret, were all polled. In addition a 44 page booklet of member comments that discussed the format of the International rallies, the distaste for the Teen Queen piece and wearing of the blue berets, red, blue, white jackets, protocols and ceremonies were viewed as negative and passe' and instead of taking a serious look at those issues making any move towards the request for more activiteies focused around doing things, better entertainment, with less focus on pomp and circumstance they decide to change the name. Their membership spoke loud and clear and they did not listen. THAT is what is killing the club!
That is exactly what I felt in reviewing it. You summed it up quite nicely. Opinions are solicited and then when you give them they are not accepted or used to enhance. Is it that people only see what they want to see?
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