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Old 12-22-2005, 08:06 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 47WeeWind
Hey 65GT (or whoever you are if you have a name your are not ashamed of): Then I say you are blessed that guy is no longer serving as President of your Unit! I can't explain and certainly won't apologize for his shortcomings; I never voted for him. Perhaps you should contact Elliot Spitzer, as this sounds like a major wrongdoing case right up his prosecutorial alley. My well run Denver Unit discussed then informedly voted on the name change. That must be why Patti abandoned Long Island to moved to Colorado. Sounds to me like its well past due the time for a name change on the 'Guyland, if for no other reason than to protect the innocent!
Fred,
There is another possibility that has not been considered here. WBCCI has a somewhat archaic way of doing things. I expect that it is possible that addresses, etc do not make it to the top levels and therefore the top levels do not have an adequate ability to let that information reach the unit levels.

Unless I am mistaken, our unit also did not know of the mane change. But I could be mistaken.
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Old 12-22-2005, 08:07 PM   #202
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Very interesting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
Hey Fred!! Try this one on...

The 1st Past President of the Metro Chapter of Unit 2 just wrote me back and said that the Metro Chapter didn't vote on anything with regard to a name change.

That's 45 members, roughly .5% of the entire club membership did NOT have any notice, nor opportunity to vote. How many more times do you think that's been repeated around the block? Maybe 17% worth?

__
I have it im my notes from the June 30, 2005 Delegates Meeting, which I attended, that Unit #2 is the New York Finger Lakes Unit. You must mean Unit # 72 which is the Metropolitan NY Unit. Either way, they both participated according to my tally of the vote. The Action Item reads:
Quote:
Action Item #1

Proposed by: International President James Haddaway.

I move that a vote of the delegates be taken to determine if the name "Airstream" shall be included in the Club's name.

Rationale: A 2004 opinion survey of WBCCI members indicated that a majoity responding to the survey would like to see the name "Airstream" included in the Club's name. The name Wally Byam Caravan Club International has a 50 year history that is widely recognized in the RV industry; and the magnitude and importance of making any changes in that name should be voted in by all the members. The cost to the Club of a name change is addressed in the International Treasurer's report attached. This motion has the support of the International Board of Trustees and the Reorganization Task Force.
Following the reading of the Action Item, there was discussion that lasted approximately 30-45 minutes (I recall - it could have been longer or shorter). There was then a Unit-by-Unit voice vote with all the delegates stating their Unit's concensus vote.

Unit #2 voted 3 - yes and 46 - no
Unit #72 voted 28 - yes and 0 - no

The total votes cast were - 5634 - Yes (79%) and 1498 - No (21%)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
You know what, this club is no better than its worst running chapter and ultimately that goes right to the top. Want to try and pass the buck on down -- not on my watch. Apparently the system is SO bad no one at the top even knew the entire Metro chapter didn't vote. Talk about a disconnect! Looks like all those votes got sucked up by somebody though and they turned them into a 100% return though, doesn't it. I wonder who's pockets those votes wound up in? I wonder if they turned them into YES change the name votes, or NO change to the name votes.
Talk about a disconnect...I'm curious as to why your Unit's Past President, who either voted or delegated someone else to do so in his absence, doesn't have any recollection of this???

Shari
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Old 12-22-2005, 08:19 PM   #203
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Correct, Metro NY Unit #72 is in Region # 2

It should be pretty easy to find out who YOUR delegate was...I could if I was so inclined, but I'm not.

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Old 12-22-2005, 08:39 PM   #204
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Shari,

You quote the following..."The name Wally Byam Caravan Club International has a 50 year history that is widely recognized in the RV industry" but Roy Bernd, states Approach a new Airstream owner and ask if they would like to join the Wally Byam Caravan Club. Tell a resort, restaurant or tourist facility that you want to make a reservation for the Wally Byam Caravan Club. Then spend the next 5 minutes explaining who Mr. Byam was and that you are really the Airstream Owners Association so they understand who/what you are talking about. Isn't that "Name Recognition"? We have none". So what gives?

Also - the vote was taken to ADD Airstream to the name - the existing name. So how does it get to a new name altogether?

BTW - I am not trying ti single anybody out and don't really direct that question at you. It is posted to the forums in general...
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Old 12-22-2005, 08:40 PM   #205
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Where did Wally leave that wand...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
Fred, There is another possibility that has not been considered here. WBCCI has a somewhat archaic way of doing things. I expect that it is possible that addresses, etc do not make it to the top levels and therefore the top levels do not have an adequate ability to let that information reach the unit levels. Unless I am mistaken, our unit also did not know of the name change. But I could be mistaken.
Hi Buttercup: I have no better knowledge of what your Unit did regarding the name change vote than you do. I'm not the BabySitter of Unit Procedure. I'm just the VAC Historian who gathers musty old trailer facts and, from time to time, delivers via this Forum religious proclamations on how vintage trailers must be restored.

I receive my Blue Beret magazine monthly, read it, and keep myself informed. If I have something to say, I write letters and send emails to the appropriate WBCCI officials instead of complaining on this Forum. I tend to keep my politics to myself and just try to help people with old trailer facts when I'm not chiseling stone tablets in a religious aluminum fevor. I really, really wish Wally had left me a magic wand I could wave and solve everyone's problems with the WBCCI. But he didn't.
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Old 12-22-2005, 08:52 PM   #206
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BC - I just quoted the Action Item as written. I can give you my opinion of the difference in the two quotes, the Action Item quote says it's "widely recognized in the RV industry" and Roy is talking about the general public when he says "a resort, restaurant or tourist facility". I happen to concur with both, if I had to chose one I agree with more, it would be Roy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
Unless I am mistaken, our unit also did not know of the name change. But I could be mistaken.
I have my notes from the delegate's meeting if you are unsure how your unit voted, I can tell you.

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Old 12-22-2005, 08:54 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 47WeeWind
Hi Buttercup: I have no better knowledge of what your Unit did regarding the name change vote than you do. I'm not the BabySitter of Unit Procedure. I'm just the VAC Historian who gathers musty old trailer facts and, from time to time, delivers via this Forum religious proclamations on how vintage trailers must be restored.

I receive my Blue Beret magazine monthly, read it, and keep myself informed. If I have something to say, I write letters and send emails to the appropriate WBCCI officials instead of complaining on this Forum. I tend to keep my politics to myself and just try to help people with old trailer facts when I'm not chiseling stone tablets in a religious aluminum fevor. I really, really wish Wally had left me a magic wand I could wave and solve everyone's problems with the WBCCI. But he didn't.
Fred,

Were not asking anything from you. I only offer an explanation for why so many people state they never heard of a vote. You seem to needlessly be taking this personally and also seem to be swing a sword at those of us who are questioning the proceedings that have taken place without respecting the desires we have of protecting the WBCCI's 50 year history.

Nobody is attacking you or the VAC. And really the things we are finding out about the procedures to change the name seem to stink a little. The question I would ask is why are you taking this so personally? What involvement do you have in this name change are you protecting?

These forums are set up so that any aspect of airstream ownership can be discussed. So why call those of us who question what's going on as complainers and try to quash our efforts to protect the truth and history of WBCCI?
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Old 12-22-2005, 09:06 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
I'm sorry Shari -- not used to the conventions used here. I think I'd be right saying Region #2? Metro chapter (no idea about 72). Nope, a vote was never taken locally. So I guess whoever the delegate was decided to vote for everybody WITHOUT any input? Pretty cool huh?

__

This is exactly what I am trying to get to the bottom of. I have communicated with Roy as well sending him my opions and thoughts on the whole process. And specifically requested how the Motion got to the delegates meeting in the first place and I CAN NOT seem to get an answer.

My President knows nothing - unfortunately I was not at the spring Rally - so I am not aware if our Unit even received anything from the IBT or WBCCI HQ - as Roy indcates "should" have received and that it was communicated in the BB.

It is also quoted that we have a voice through our Delegate. But that is unfair in my opinion - if 130 members of our unit do not show up - their voice is lumped in with the vote regardless - thus if the members at the unit voted 50 against and 40 for - then the 130 are ratioed into the delegate vote - WOW this is major bogus!

The 130 members should have a proxy vote to the unit - if they choose not to cast a vote then there is NO vote for them.

Just an observation - that I am trying to get to the bottom of from my own Unit - WHY

Because folks we have one more KICK at this can - and if this vote is going to go the same way - then I want it done with Full membership awareness - and not Roy telling me the Delegate voted for us at the Delegates Meeting.
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Old 12-22-2005, 09:10 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT6921
This is exactly what I am trying to get to the bottom of. I have communicated with Roy as well sending him my opions and thoughts on the whole process. And specifically requested how the Motion got to the delegates meeting in the first place and I CAN NOT seem to get an answer.

My President knows nothing - unfortunately I was not at the spring Rally - so I am not aware if our Unit even received anything from the IBT or WBCCI HQ - as Roy indcates "should" have received and that it was communicated in the BB.

It is also quoted that we have a voice through our Delegate. But that is unfair in my opinion - if 130 members of our unit do not show up - their voice is lumped in with the vote regardless - thus if the members at the unit voted 50 against and 40 for - then the 130 are ratioed into the delegate vote - WOW this is major bogus!

The 130 members should have a proxy vote to the unit - if they choose not to cast a vote then there is NO vote for them.

Just an observation - that I am trying to get to the bottom of from my own Unit - WHY

Because folks we have one more KICK at this can - and if this vote is going to go the same way - then I want it done with Full membership awareness - and not Roy telling me the Delegate voted for us at the Delegates Meeting.
Funny, Roy stated that he received no negative comment, except ours. Hmmmm...
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Old 12-22-2005, 09:36 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
My current membership roster shows a 45 member tally after renewal deadlines.
Oftentimes, a Unit roster will include associate members (who's vote only counts once), members at large and/or 'friends' who are no longer current members. The delegate count is based on the number of paid memberships whose primary membership is with the unit. It's set by the International office, based on the annual fees your Treasurer collects & provides to International. The delegate count is set by the number of members paid by the end of December for the upcoming year. So the delegate count for 2005 was based on the paid memberships through December 2004.

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Old 12-22-2005, 10:01 PM   #211
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Growth is good!

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Old 12-22-2005, 10:05 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
Funny, Roy stated that he received no negative comment, except ours. Hmmmm...
For clarification I sent mine yesterday to Roy - and he responded promptly before heading south.

With some fabulous help from Shari - I have traced our input back to the Unit Delegate - which I have yet to find who it was - and to still find out what direction that person was given in regards to the name change issue - motion from the Unit Meeting.

And I still want to find out what documentation was sent to the Unit prior to the Delegate Meeting. - Any one know - other that what information is in the BB. Are the IBT meeting minutes circulated to the Unit Presidents?
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Old 12-22-2005, 10:48 PM   #213
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OKay so I finally got to the bottom of my question #1 and #2

Our Unit was aware - must have just been the new President so excited about his new position he forgot.

The members voted in the April Rally (which we did not attend - as our GT's Axle was dead in the water and removed for cloning at Axis).

It was reported in our newsletter- that we missed due to a change in e-mail address that made the directory but not the Newsletter Editor. That we approved to add the word Airstream to our Official Name.

Now when I read this in our news letter I thought they were refering to our Unit Name - not the Name WBCCI - easy mistake.

I just wish that we were given a copy of the agenda and rationale for the pending motions - and have an opportunity to proxy our vote on motions coming down from IBT. It would make things a lot more clear for everyone.

With everything I have not read - there are two things.

One - if there is to be a change - then it should be as I mentioned before - as directed by the delegates - and that is to add Airstream to WBCCI - where and how the word shows up is what the Task Force should have been working on and will be presenting to IBT Jan 10th. So if anything other than this is presented to IBT - I hope that IBT follows the direction of their membership and send the Task Force Back to the drawing board or over rule and propose an appropriate inclusion of the word Airstream to the WBCCI.

Two I have seen that there is a heavier influence to adding the word airstream - from those who own newer units hence not having the 100% drive to retain the history as those who either own vintage or have an appreciation for vintage units.

Our unit is a prime example - there is about 30+ units that appreciate vintage of the 207+ members - but those members are not vocal in their vintage appreciation and meet without the approval of the unit.

So yes men comes to mind with our votes.

Third - if I were to vote I would have voted NO - but because we were not there our vote counted in favor - and that is what is wrong with the system and hopefully in the future house cleaning will be looked at.

But this time around I will be there and I will have an opportunity to have my vote noted.

However....I still do not agree that an opinion poll with such poor member representation is justification for the IBT President to table a motion to add Airstream to the Official name in the first place.

Maybe enough to warrant either further research or even a recount on that specific question via mail, e-mail etc - but not what is presently in motion !

I'm done with this now - and as one of the people seriously questioning the process. From the point the IBT President tabled the motion - the organization HAS in deed followed all its rules.

So where the questionable action lies is with the IBT President and the seconder and then the IBT as a group to lead this Club into a change process that may not even be necessary.

good luck to all of you out there -make sure you get heard - it may not make a difference today - but at least we have identified some serious defficience in this change process and hopefully somewhere along the road a new more effective process will be developed.

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Old 12-22-2005, 11:00 PM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT6921
For clarification I sent mine yesterday to Roy - and he responded promptly before heading south.
You did good to get a response so quickly. Mr. Bernd has hidden his email address from this forum (a thing that was probably good to do at the moment, or he'd be inundated with comments), so I sent him a private message with my comments on Tuesday. I have yet to receive a response in over two days.

I will note that I am already in communication with my Region President about the proposed name change. And I will be contacting my Unit President soon. My efforts may or may not have any effect, but you can't get any results if you don't try. I've always tended to get involved with organizations I join at some level. I'm not ready to be a unit or region officer at the moment, but I can try make my voice heard.
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Old 12-23-2005, 07:04 AM   #215
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Warm

I always heard that crow was best eaten while it was warm. I find it amazing that some are suprised by the democracy of all of this name change stuff.

It is just as any democracy, you cannot get everyone to vote. Do we stop the process because a minority did not show up for the vote.

I am not certain what process you folks are expecting but I am familiar with the process the WBCCI uses and it seems to be typical to me.

It is always the folks who did not vote who bear the most distaste for the system.

As for a record, all one has to do is get with the Recording Secretary of any unit to find what transpired during any WBCCI meeting. Especially votes and major decisions. I am proud to say that I was afforded oppurtunity to vote and our unit which has a voting strength of 56 (total members are around 150 including associates and other non voting members). Our unit, which is often recognized for forward thinking, voted to CHANGE THE NAME!

I assure you that the topic was voted on at every unit at one time or another. If a Unit did not vote , it was probably because the officers were not keeping up with the info sent from the International level. The info from International is duplicated and sent ot EVERY unit president. Not to mention, the rumor of name change was prevalent within the WBCCI and I would bet that the rumor was present at every unit and the subject of conversation at one time or another. Again, it usually comes down to being present.


Comments like, "I did not attend", "I did not receive", "my mailing address changed" etc...

Just like any one else, it is there own responsibility to insure that you are reachable.

Do creditors cut you any slack for changed mailing addresses?

Do attornies and judges cut you any slack for "misinterpretation"

Does the Voting process "wait" for you to show up?

As with any vote, I am glad that this issue has caused much debate. As with all elections or votes, when folks dont not get what they seek, they promise to be involved next time.

WELCOME TO THE CLUB!
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Old 12-23-2005, 07:43 AM   #216
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The Club

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Old 12-23-2005, 08:07 AM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smily
I always heard that crow was best eaten while it was warm. I find it amazing that some are suprised by the democracy of all of this name change stuff.

It is just as any democracy, you cannot get everyone to vote. Do we stop the process because a minority did not show up for the vote.

I am not certain what process you folks are expecting but I am familiar with the process the WBCCI uses and it seems to be typical to me.

It is always the folks who did not vote who bear the most distaste for the system.

As for a record, all one has to do is get with the Recording Secretary of any unit to find what transpired during any WBCCI meeting. Especially votes and major decisions. I am proud to say that I was afforded oppurtunity to vote and our unit which has a voting strength of 56 (total members are around 150 including associates and other non voting members). Our unit, which is often recognized for forward thinking, voted to CHANGE THE NAME!

I assure you that the topic was voted on at every unit at one time or another. If a Unit did not vote , it was probably because the officers were not keeping up with the info sent from the International level. The info from International is duplicated and sent ot EVERY unit president. Not to mention, the rumor of name change was prevalent within the WBCCI and I would bet that the rumor was present at every unit and the subject of conversation at one time or another. Again, it usually comes down to being present.


Comments like, "I did not attend", "I did not receive", "my mailing address changed" etc...

Just like any one else, it is there own responsibility to insure that you are reachable.

Do creditors cut you any slack for changed mailing addresses?

Do attornies and judges cut you any slack for "misinterpretation"

Does the Voting process "wait" for you to show up?

As with any vote, I am glad that this issue has caused much debate. As with all elections or votes, when folks dont not get what they seek, they promise to be involved next time.

WELCOME TO THE CLUB!
If you are refering to my posts - Smily then have the courage or politeness to say so.

I have had legitimate questions all the way through this process - I did approach my Unit first and was told they no nothing of the name changing. So as many here seem to be in tune that is why I came here - to find out as much as I can.

As far as not attending!, incorrect address! etc - don't presume to even think that these are faults of those questioning. If I submit and address change 4 times - and it is still incorrect - then I suppose I am in the wrong for not being responsible.

I suppose if I do not receive agenda's prior to the Unit meetings, or do not receive minutes following the meetings I can keep up to speed. And yes how about the BB that we receive at our address upwards of a month after it is published if not more.

I am not complaining!, and we have tried to volunteer and get involved - but everyone is all so busy and things are planed in our unit almost 2 years in advance. So we will look forward to 2008 when hopefully WE will be able to contribute to our Unit. We can not help if we experience mechanical problems and can not attend our Rallies.

I also try not to be defensive on peoples comments here either - when someone has the "balls" to conceed the process and in fact communicate such - the LAST thing they need is people like you shuving down their face.

I have my opinion on the name - just as you do. I defend the name - and I applaud the members for accepting change - but Smilie the direction was
Add Airstream to the Official name - NOT to Change the name completely - so try and get your facts straight.

And the second point is - I just can not understand how an opinion pole of only 13% of our members can initiate a full name change process. I can understand however how it may cause for research into the response and possibly further contact with members and corporate partners.
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Old 12-23-2005, 08:31 AM   #218
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Quote:
If you are refering to my posts - Smily then have the courage or politeness to say so
My post was for the whole forum but your input, as others, had an influence on mine.

Quote:
I am not complaining!, and we have tried to volunteer and get involved - but everyone is all so busy and things are planed in our unit almost 2 years in advance. So we will look forward to 2008 when hopefully WE will be able to contribute to our Unit. We can not help if we experience mechanical problems and can not attend our Rallies.
Thats cool. I am glad to hear it. The more the merrier. Come one come all!

Quote:
but Smilie the direction was
add Airstream to the Official name - NOT to Change the name completely - so try and get your facts straight.
Hm, there are degrees of change? I suppose that is up for interpretation. Does this mean you will entertain a little change?

And by the way, I concur the direction was to add Airstream, but where is the direction to not change the name completely? (even if my interpretaion is any change is complete.)

Ken Smillie (w/two l's)
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Old 12-23-2005, 09:24 AM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smily
Hm, there are degrees of change? I suppose that is up for interpretation. Does this mean you will entertain a little change?
I have never been adverse to change - and you might see my first post way back at the beginning - was WBACCI.

Just really don't think it is necessary to stand in front of my rig - and say I belong to THE AIRSTREAM CLUB when it is in big letters behind me. But it is interesting to explain how and why these travelers are still on the road and why the design is such they are still making them today - don't you think???

Quote:
Originally Posted by smily
And by the way, I concur the direction was to add Airstream, but where is the direction to not change the name completely? (even if my interpretaion is any change is complete.)
You know Smily - I belonged to an organization that at one point had a board - that would purposely play with the wording of motions - to twist and push things through - and then pipe in "well it is up for interpretation."

So as I said - now we shall wait and see - give the Task Force their opportunity to present their proposal to the IBT Jan 10th.

Then see what motion(s) come forth to the Units for consideration and/or vote. If their interpretation was just to add Airstream to the official name WBCCI and a name is presented without the WBCCI included then this is where the members voice will either prevail for or against the shift in direction.

I agree change is inevitable - as we have already ratified as the membership to add the word Airstream to WBCCI - it is just a matter of where the A ends up.

The tough part will be when those who don't want to go further with the name and are handed say AOA the TAC or whatever to vote on - will they vote yes or no???

We are called WBCCI - Ontario Canada Unit -we have a 34' triple axle as the logo with a maple leaf behind it. That pretty much says it all for our Unit. And on the jackets we have a Big Airstream on the Back - so not sure why anyone has such a hard time marketing.

Maybe the VAC will adopt the WBCCI and elevate their status from an Intra-Club - to the NEW WBCCI
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Old 12-23-2005, 08:17 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smily
The Airstream Club!
I think this will be my last post in this issue, because we aren't accomplishing anything with all this debate. It was interesting to read for a while, but now it's getting stale and perhaps just a little bit personal. We've all got our opinions and it appears most of us are unlikely to change them as a part of this debate.

I can accept a club name change that "includes the word Airstream" as was initially voted upon, but I just can't get myself to accept a wholesale replacement of the club name, when the new name and old name do not share even one word in common. Your "proposal" above, while not my first choice is better than AOAI for several reasons, one of which is that at least it shares one word with the current name of the club (and that word would be . . . anyone . . . anyone . . . "club" . . . there I knew you could say it ), so it has at least a tiny link to the current name. 'Nuf said.
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