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Old 06-03-2011, 05:12 PM   #1081
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Speechless is ok. It does not violate the forums "be nice" rule.

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Old 06-04-2011, 11:47 AM   #1082
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Now what?

The constitution remains the same, I guess the bylaws remain the same. The Forrest amendment—I can't figure out what happened to that. I'm unsure whether the motorhome amendment is coming up next month either.

The leadership seems to be just about the same. Shrinking numbers remain the same, or worse.

Suing the organization seems unlikely—that would need completely new people to have credibility with potential donors. The threat of a lawsuit may get a leader of the effort admittance to the inner circle for a while, but that seems to be about it. Whether the whole amendment thing was a sham from the beginning to disarm the lawsuit effort and then junk the thing later on is something that we will probably never know. If that was the plan, I'd give the perp an award for chutzpah, but people usually aren't that clever.

That leaves:

1. being quiet and accepting the way things are to allow people to camp with their friends,
2. moving on from the WBCCI, or,
3. organizing a political struggle to take over the organization.

One other thought—if you were among the leadership of the organization and you saw the opposition to change (i.e., constitutional changes), wouldn't you think the members like things just the way they are? I think, given the egos involved, they might pat themselves on the back and feel they were doing the right thing and be encouraged to find a way to get that motorhome thing adopted as soon as possible.

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Old 06-04-2011, 12:07 PM   #1083
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Denco amendment is proceeding down the alternate path and will be the law of the land as soon as 2/3 of the units get their approving votes in to Jackson Center. Motorhome amendment will be advanced by the IBT and be scheduled for next year's delegates' meeting at the January meeting and will fail. The New IP will appoint a new Constitutional review committee to report to the IBT in January. The nominating committee will appoint their own successor clones and the set of clones officers will be elected into office without opposition. The Du Quoin International will have about 500 trailers and lose a lot of money. The membership will decline again next year. There will be talk of reducing the number of Regions. Some of the smaller older units will age out and disband.
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Old 06-04-2011, 12:38 PM   #1084
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I think Dwight pretty well summed it up.

I look for the DenCo amendment to pass. The official notice went to the unit presidents from HQ after most units had their spring business meeting so they will not consider it until fall. But the great thing about the grassroots amendment path it has taken is that if 2/3 of the units ratify, it is adopted untouched by the EC, IBT, or delegates.

The only thing that isn't clear is who counts (or doesn't count) the certificates of ratification as they come into HQ.
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Old 06-04-2011, 12:50 PM   #1085
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The only sure way to see the count would be if someone from each unit posted the result of that units vote to a thread here on Airfourms where the IBT could not get to them.

If someone from the Dev unit started a thread with the votes of those units that have voted it would be easy for others to follow.
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Old 06-04-2011, 02:44 PM   #1086
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I look for the DenCo amendment to pass. The official notice went to the unit presidents from HQ after most units had their spring business meeting so they will not consider it until fall. But the great thing about the grassroots amendment path it has taken is that if 2/3 of the units ratify, it is adopted untouched by the EC, IBT, or delegates.

The only thing that isn't clear is who counts (or doesn't count) the certificates of ratification as they come into HQ.
.
It should pass, the changes can come from as many sources as needed.

The way I understand it is not all units need to vote as soon as the 2/3 magic number is reached it is adopted.

That can happen anytime between Aug - Oct.

As far as the vote being verified I believe it should be made public to the membership.


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Old 06-04-2011, 06:22 PM   #1087
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You're an optomist. I fear a way will be found to stop it.( Denco/Forrest's Motion) There is ALWAYS something, that will be created to cause turmoil. Unfortunately, turmoil to S.O.P for this club, and it has become a big turn-off. Back during 2011 Mid Winter, I had the pleasure of speaking by phone with the IP, but when it was found out I was no longer an Unit Officer, I was called a "nobody", and the IP no longer would take my call. These shanagins with the Revison, Bob, all of us ,we have been had. The MoHo issue is yet another bit of turmoil that won't stop until........so, I don't believe for one minute the unrest will stop. Its wielded over us members like a big club.
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Old 06-04-2011, 07:25 PM   #1088
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I think it's time to close this thread. There's no point to the discussion at this point.

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Old 06-04-2011, 07:59 PM   #1089
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I think it's time to close this thread. There's no point to the discussion at this point.

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Old 06-05-2011, 07:44 AM   #1090
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I don't believe it is time to close the thread either. I expect it will become much quieter and maybe nicer but we have been promised by the IP that the constitution amendment will be carried forward by the incoming IP. Perhaps even by the next 5 or 6 IP's. It may never be the right time to bring it before the delegates so the thread goes on.
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Old 06-05-2011, 08:22 AM   #1091
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This will all be hashed over at the Delegates Seminar, before the start of the Delegates Meeting, which now has nothing to do except rubber stamp the new officer elections. (Oh, yes, and vote on Amendment 2, directing the Nominating Committee publish information on all qualified candidates, which I hope will pass.)

For starters, why do we need a constitutional revision anyway? (Aside from the opportunity to create a committee to neutralize the lawsuit.) Most of the amendments are of no real significance. (For example, changing the spelling of "non-profit" to "nonprofit" in Article I.) The few changes that are significant could be handled the usual way with amendments.

In any case most of the improvements claimed for the revised constitution actually take place in the bylaws, which can be amended by the IBT any time they want.
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Old 06-05-2011, 10:51 PM   #1092
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The End

Back on 2-21-2011 I wrote, "And NOW, the revision belongs to the President who is getting input from PIPs. What you think was your final draft, is not the draft we will see. Just wait, they will not fail to disappoint you."

On 2-22-2011 LI Pets wrote, "That's incorrect, Forrest it has our signatures, unchanged, in accord with RONR a committee's report can't be changed except by the assembly... Any changes will occur at the delegates meeting."

I responded, "It is going to be the President's motion. He owns it and can do whatever he wants with it. Your committee was a "special committee" and he owned that too. You're living in fantasy land my friend if you didn't know that."

LI Pets answered, "Not the case, in a conference with the full committee and Norm all those issues were discussed... No fantasies."

Then, this June, Norm Beu wrote, "It was an easy trap to fall into.... I will not make the motion concerning the proposed Revision during the next Delegates' Meeting."

I admit to taking Norm's, "an easy trap," out of context, but it really seems to apply (who knows, perhaps it was a Freudian slip on his part). Can I say that I told you so? Or are you still a true believer?
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Old 06-06-2011, 06:42 AM   #1093
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Forrest, not sure what point you're trying to make the Revision was NOT changed, it was published to the members without changes.

Your allegation that Norm owns this committee is way off base.


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Old 06-06-2011, 06:52 AM   #1094
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Time for an apology

A question for the “Special Revision Committee” about the New Constitution and what has happened over the past 8-10 months and the back and forth questions, comments, answers from people that questioned how and why, who and what, etc…. many were called, Naysayers, Trouble Makers, Not having the best interest of the club in hand, etc…

For those on the Special Committee, many WBCCI members are not going to say “I Told You So” though they may like too. But some do think these members of the WBCCI that tried to give the Committee Members insight based on past experience in dealing with the IBT/EC7 and how things are done by them to be called, Naysayers, Trouble Makers, Not having the best interest of the club in hand, etc… by some Committee members. These WBCCI members are due an “apology”.

One can only hope this “apology” will happen in light of how the recent events have played out almost exactly like many of the so called “Naysayers” said it would.
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Old 06-06-2011, 08:25 AM   #1095
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Now back to our regularly scheduled programming!

The very idea that anyone needs to run a club like an incorporated town is just the sort of thing that keeps people from joining or more to the point, staying. The more it sounds like work and politics the less attractive it is to the majority of potential members. The negative hype which has been created by this fiasco has reverberated throught the Airstream community.
Over the last week at Alumapaloozer we saw many friends who were no longer active WBCCI members and even more amazing was the number who will never consider it! If the strategy of the leadership was to disenfranchize Airstream owners to win a vote to make WBCCI an all makes club they have been successful. WBCCI has become a dirty word in the Airstream community of people we talked to! It's death nell has been struck, soon to be only a memory of great caravans in history.
The next major event will be discussion about whole units turning in their charters in favor of locally managed groups of Airstream friends. GOOD JOB to the leadership for making the kind of club only the elite MOHO owners can enjoy!

There was talk of shutting down this thread but I think we are really on the verge of shutting down the entire WBCCI forum as it no longer has any relavence to a forum of Airstream Ownwers!
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Old 06-06-2011, 09:11 AM   #1096
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Forrest, not sure what point you're trying to make the Revision was NOT changed, it was published to the members without changes.

Your allegation that Norm owns this committee is way off base.


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You're right, you don't get the point that is being made. You never have.
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Old 06-06-2011, 09:15 AM   #1097
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Folks, please avoid any personal attacks against anybody, whether members of these forums or not. Any such attack is a violation of our "be nice" policy and will not be tolerated.

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Old 06-06-2011, 09:31 AM   #1098
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I gotta say I find the moderation ambiguous. I don't ever see these personal attacks. Will the moderators please be specific in tutoring us as to what has broken the be nice rule, which line is considered an attack, a rant, etc., because I don't see any infractions of the forums rules and don't appear to be getting any smarter despite the generous amount of coaching. I am being sincere in my request, and not the first I have made it. This is a recurring issue and many may be unsure of what is not acceptable. There also were a myriad of moderator concerns expressed in advance of posts which I also find unusual from a neutral moderation standpoint and whether posters have become done with the thread they are active in and it needing to be locked down. Perhaps this is out of line but I feel a lack of respect in the amount and method of control being lavished upon the WBCCI subjects. I don't feel like a lawbreaker and disrespectful person but am told we are repeatedly on the basis of our opinions posted here. Could moderators please be more direct and less conceptual and aggravated and subjective in their counsel, actually based on how we are speaking inappropraiately and not about the subject matter with any apparent bias.
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Old 06-06-2011, 09:47 AM   #1099
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If you disagree with someone and express that disagreement, that is often seen as sn infraction. The problem with heavy moderation is, it is always subjective never objective.
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Old 06-06-2011, 09:50 AM   #1100
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Perhaps you have just explained why a club politics thread is nearly impossible to not run awry from when it involves the expression of opposites and disagreements for its very premise. I had started a thread about WBCCI needing its own members' forum and asked of the electronic committee and officers involved and cited the problems of moderation and that Air Forums was not the appropriate venue or mutually beneficial for mods or members but it was removed. The issue is REAL and should be addressed and this as said before is currently the only game in town for WBCCIers and thus my thread was pertinent and timely and should be regarded seriously as an option for club discussion.
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