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Old 05-13-2011, 05:50 PM   #901
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Joe,

I have a different take. That is that this unit is not concerned with the constitution as worrying about it interferes with their fun, fellowship and adventure with friends.

I am sure that there are many other members who have the same feeling and will vote yes since it was proposed and will not take the time to review the document. Don't forget that only a few of the almost 6,000 members belong and participate in this forum.

Bill

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Bill,
Very interesting. May be hope for some change. Thanks for posting.
Regards,
Joe
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Old 05-14-2011, 07:09 AM   #902
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FAQ's

Article XII the IBT will have total control over the number of new areas. These areas are to be of equal membership. How often will the areas be reorganized? Is the number of members based on the units or the location of the individual members? For those units which cover more than one state, how will they be assigned to areas? Will units in states be split into more than one areas? I don't believe that it is necessary to change the word "Region" to "Area". I thought that there was a minimum number of areas, but cannot locate it. Can someone point me to the correct section?
Response: The details of boundaries and the number of Areas was discussed. It was felt that these details were best left to the Bylaws. There is only one Constitutional requirement, that of having an approximately equal number of members. Region or Area are only titles, strictly a matter of taste. It was felt that because of other changes, a name change made sense. The proposed Constitution has no minimum number of Regions. An earlier draft that was released without authorization has created some confusion in this regard. As with our current Constitution, the Bylaws will provide the details of “how” and “when”. There has been much discussion about the best number of “Areas” or “Regions” and views still differ widely. The Club will need the flexibility to adjust its organization in response to changing membership numbers and this is best accomplished through Bylaws which are easier to amend.

----

Article VII I agree with the extension of term for the Treasurer, but it is necessary for the Recording Secretary? Why are the Treasurer and Recording Secretary voting members of the IBT and Executive Committee? It seems to me that these are staff positions and not line positions.

Response: The terms of the Treasurer and Recording Secretary are proposed to be extended to two years to provide greater continuity on the Executive Committee and the IBT. With the terms expiring in alternate years, there will be no gap in the continuity. It is quite normal to designate these elected positions as members of the Executive in a nonprofit membership organization. Their roles are important to the Club.

---

Article XVI The member caucus is to be "...scheduled during the summer months or at a scheduled International Rally...". Shouldn't it be required that the caucus be at the International Rally to insure the most members attend and participate? If the July meeting is held using electronic means, will members be able to comment on the agenda or only able to listen? Is it necessary to attend the international in person to participate in the Caucus? I am uncertain that replacing the current delegate system with the member caucus is an improvement.

Response: Practically, the member caucus would be held at the International Rally. The rally is not mandated by the revised Constitution, the Members’ Caucus is. The Members’ Caucus is an important part of the governing process. It is here where procedures are discussed and opinions and points of view are shared before members cast their votes. It would be streamed and the strengths and weakness debated for any member with a computer to hear. The importance of this meeting justifies it's inclusion in the Constitution. Members would need to attend the meeting to enter into the discussion. There have been many suggestions that the International Rally needs more flexibility in setting dates and some question whether it should be held annually. While we would expect that the Caucus would normally be held at the Rally, what if a Rally is not held or is cancelled? This provision would give the Club the flexibility to schedule another venue for a Members’ Caucus.
On July 5th, the major business would typically be the Budget. The Budget must be approved at the beginning of the fiscal year. The meeting on July 5th has never been well attended by the membership. There are usually less than 10 members present other than those that have to be there because of their office. This move disconnects the International Rally from July 1-5.
The Committee strongly feels that only by having a direct vote can we assure every member can have a voice. The weakness of the Delegate system was that a Delegate was free to represent their Unit’s or their personal views. It was clear from the actual vote that some personal views often won out. The current Delegate system is being replaced by both direct member voting and the Members’ Caucus. They are fully linked. Direct member voting obviates the role of the Delegate and we want to retain a deliberative forum through the Caucus. We are encouraging broad discussion throughout the Club so that members can decide if these combined changes are an improvement.




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Old 05-16-2011, 12:34 PM   #903
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The Perfect Storm

Leo G,

I guess you could say it’s the perfect storm. With the WBCCI membership worn down, the remaining worn thin from years of the IBT/EC7 killing the club with Name Change, MOHO, etc… members that would normally fight the actions of the EC7 have left the club out of disgust or been forced to leave, a lawsuit that was never really a lawsuit, donations to the lawsuit being withheld causing even more to leave that would normally fight, a member of the so called lawsuit becoming a Revision Committee member under smoke and mirrors tactics never seen before in the club who once stood arm and arm with those that are now called naysayers, trouble makers, etc… the committee that wrote the New Constitution getting allowed to push it like never before through emails, unit visits, and even “Rebuttals” to the CBC report!, etc… and the residual membership that just sit on the sidelines giving the “head nod” for anything the EC7, IBT or IP puts before them, you have all the working for the “Perfect Storm”.


Many would say the guys running the club at the top are not the smartest when it comes to promotions, making the club family friendly, making the International Rally fun, etc… they are however VERY smart when it comes to protecting their social club and it appears that is what they have done and will continue to be able to do. I just hope those who rubberstamp this thing enjoys the show to come.

Enjoy the show!
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Old 05-16-2011, 01:07 PM   #904
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even “Rebuttals” to the CBC report!
What you didn't like the rebuttal either?

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Old 05-16-2011, 01:34 PM   #905
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I doubt the end will have much drama at all ... the Horror!

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I just hope those who rubberstamp this thing enjoy the show to come.
The Hollow Men
TS Eliot

We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats' feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar

Shape without form, shade without color,
Paralyzed force, gesture without motion;

Those who have crossed
With direct eyes, to death's other Kingdom
Remember us - if at all - not as lost
Violent souls, but only
As the hollow men
The stuffed men.

This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.

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Old 05-16-2011, 04:55 PM   #906
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Funny but true story...

This weekend I was buying fuel at a gas station in Central Virginia. An older fella(80ish) came up to me and struck up a conversation about my trailer. He was commenting on the lack of red numbers. Turns out he was a member for ten years in the 1970's. He told me he left because of all the politics and inequity between the leadership and the common members. I was astounded that this situation of decline has been going on this long. To think, as long as Bob's trailer has been rolling the same naysayers and quitters have been part of the WB history. I wonder if some of them were also Neanderthals.
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Old 05-16-2011, 07:06 PM   #907
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Funny but true story...

This weekend I was buying fuel at a gas station in Central Virginia. An older fella(80ish) came up to me and struck up a conversation about my trailer. He was commenting on the lack of red numbers. Turns out he was a member for ten years in the 1970's. He told me he left because of all the politics and inequity between the leadership and the common members.
There was a group formed from Region Nine (IIRC) a few years ago for the expressed purpose of camping out. They communicated via e-mail and phone. They purposely elected no officers, had no hierarchy and maintained a loose organization. They just got together and went Airstreaming several times a month!! They were so tired of the politics. They were pretty active and probably still are. I just lost touch with them.

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Old 05-16-2011, 07:53 PM   #908
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"Sometimes when I'm angry, I know I have the right to be angry, but that doesn't give me the right to be cruel." author unknown.

"The instant we feel anger, we have already ceased striving for truth and have begun striving for ourselves." A.J. Heschel

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Old 05-17-2011, 09:28 AM   #909
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It's going to take 1/3 of all units voting NO across the board to stop this madness -- you have to wonder if they're actually even out there...
You can put Texas Highland Lakes solidly in the no column with our 80-odd members. The vote was 100% against the new constitution.

Sadly, the motion to open up the nomination process lost by a split vote.

I have heard that someone is going to make a motion that the new constitution be tabled and revisited next year.
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:02 AM   #910
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Sadly, the motion to open up the nomination process lost by a split vote.
What's even sadder is that your unit doesn't know how to handle a split vote.

They are supposed to vote X No's X yes, not winner take all.

Quote:
I have heard that someone is going to make a motion that the new constitution be tabled and revisited next year.
Not that simple.


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Old 05-17-2011, 01:15 PM   #911
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What's even sadder is that your unit doesn't know how to handle a split vote.
They are supposed to vote X No's X yes, not winner take all.
Not that simple.
.
Where did you come by that little piece of incorrect knowledge?

If you knew what you were talking about, it would be a miracle. You are a poor advertisement for the new constitution.

Our unit DOES vote proportionately. However, when a vote is called for and each and every hand in the room goes up, then, it is a unanimous vote.

The vote regarding nominating procedures was a split vote and will be reported as such.

I repeat, Highland Lakes voted unanimously against the new constitution at our business meeting. There was not a single voice raised in favor.
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Old 05-17-2011, 02:53 PM   #912
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I repeat, Highland Lakes voted unanimously against the new constitution at our business meeting. There was not a single voice raised in favor.
Ae you saying that each of the 18 Articles was voted against unanimously?
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Old 05-17-2011, 03:07 PM   #913
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Ae you saying that each of the 18 Articles was voted against unanimously?
The entire package was voted against unanimously. The offer was made to discuss the sections individually. Had had any one member asked to do so, it would have been handled that way. No one asked.

We have a highly educated and highly computer literate unit. The material was sent out in a timely manner and the President encouraged discussion.

The feeling I had from my conversations with members match my own in that there are some few items of merit in the proposal, but they are so swamped by the bad ideas that the entire package should be turned down.

Items of merit can be handled in the way they have been handled for decades, by motions.
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Old 05-17-2011, 03:58 PM   #914
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Written in Black and White

John,


People would think the Highland Lakes Unit does not know what its doing based on the responses from the Revision Committee representation here on the forums.

Don’t be surprised if there’s not an official “rebuttal” from the Revision Committee telling you where the Unit fell short and the vote that was taken does not follow Roberts Rules and should not be taken seriously or even their delegate allowed a vote on the New Constitution at the International Rally.

One must understand they are the only ones that know what’s best for this club and no one is able to read a simple document and understand it without being told what it really means.

Glad to see the Unit was able to make their own decision based on the document as written in black and white whether it was for or against the New Constitution.

Makes me wonder if you would have had the same responses from the Revision Committee if the vote had went the other way?
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Old 05-18-2011, 09:43 AM   #915
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Region 2 Rally

To those of you going to the rally there is a scheduled Revision Roundtable discussion on Sunday the 29th at 2PM.

National Apple Blossom Rally at the South Mountain Fairgrounds in Biglerville, PA, May 26 – 30, 2011

link





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Old 05-18-2011, 02:24 PM   #916
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Full Court Press

Looks like the Revision Committee has been taking lessons from "Full Court Press".

"Be agnostic how you communicate and surround your target audience"





Though some might say its been more of a "Beat them into Submission"
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Old 05-18-2011, 04:13 PM   #917
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Hmm, we were told at our business meeting over this last weekend, that a vote on the Revised Constitution won't come until next year. There is supposed to be a ballot-like sheet awaiting someones' approval that will be sent out so members can read the current Articles of the Current Constiution what was, then the revised ideas of what will be, then a column to add a suggestion for their/our delegate to submit in DuQuion. We were told we weren't voting on the Revision at this time.
Confused and weary, and wondering why can't we just amend the current Constitution to make it more appropriate for todays' member.?.
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Old 05-18-2011, 05:58 PM   #918
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Confused and weary, and wondering why can't we just amend the current Constitution to make it more appropriate for todays' member.?.
It is very rare someone with power gives up that power willingly.

Members need plans: 1. how to amend the revision when it comes up, 2. what to do if the whole thing fails, 3. what to do if it passes, 4. what to do if some passes and some doesn't. Without those plans you are still weak and the leadership still runs things.

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Old 05-18-2011, 10:54 PM   #919
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Yes Gene I understand. But...... there is too short of time to prepare. The EC-7 obstacle is great. They shot Forrest/Denco Motion easily. I am furious that nothing was accomplished at our Unit meeting. So why not just let them (ec-7) keep the baton to wave from the decks of WBBCI as she goes down. As I said above, we are weary. This entrenched hierarchy has carried us from one catastrophe to the next, "Name Change", MoHo issue, Leo's expulsion, Denco Motion, now the Revision, THIS IS NOT FUN!!.
What the H...E...double toothpicks happened to the much touted fun, fellowship, blah, blah blah. Oh, maybe when its convenient for them ( EC-7) rubbing elbows with eaach other telling themselves well done. We have other options, and will be heading to a Tin Can Tourist Rally this weekend in Canon City Co.

Hey LIPets, what's this ballot form that Bob Moss, Int'l Treasurer and Denco Member told us about that we shall have in our hands showing old and new Articles, and a blank for us members to give our sugesstive changes to our delegate before she heads to Du Quon? Will it be sent enmass by constant contact? Is it going to be approved soon? Clock's ticking, patience waning!
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Old 05-19-2011, 06:50 AM   #920
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Awaiting final approval on the form (actually a Worksheet) along with a few other items of great interest.
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