Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-31-2013, 07:10 AM   #61
Figment of My Imagination
 
Protagonist's Avatar
 
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over , More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by eubank View Post
Oh, the club runs just fine with any Airstream product, Doyle, and that includes not just Interstates and AS Mohos, but all of the Argosy trailers and motorhomes.
I don't doubt it, else I wouldn't still be a member. And I didn't even take (much) offense to Grand Master's statement that he doesn't like the newer "generic box" Airstream motorhomes.

If anything, reading that someone doesn't think Interstates are "real" Airstreams helps put the MoHo issue into perspective. Doesn't make me change my opinion in opposing the MoHo amendment, though. The fact remains that Interstates like mine are built in Jackson Center, just as are the Airstream trailers. Thor Class A's are not built in Jackson Center, and they are not offspring of the mothership.

When there's a THOR Class A that comes out of the Jackson Center plant, then and only then will I welcome THOR class A's into WBCCI.
__________________

__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
Protagonist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 08:34 AM   #62
Master of Universe
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,874
Protagonist, I think he meant the late model Class A's, not the Interstates.

If a lot members really want change, and if they are concentrated in certain units that operate informally and avoid the stuffed shirt approach of other units, why don't those units get together and present a list of demands to reform the club? It would begin with allowing people to rise up through the club quickly instead of making them wait years and years until they are entirely co-opted. Also, the nominating process needs to be opened up. The only way these reformist units could make this work was to threaten to leave the club and they would, of course, have to be willing to actually do it.

Otherwise, I think the club will decline slowly as it has and then settle into some stability—perhaps not happy stability, but a dull acceptance of the status quo. The past upheaval has exhausted a lot of reformers, it appears, and the process of dull acceptance is well under way. I'm sure there are a few people who are slowly and quietly rising through the ranks and plan on reform, but will they ever have a majority? Will they be co-opted? (It is really easy for good and decent people to be co-opted; if you haven't been part of a small group of reformers in a hidebound organization, you can't easily imagine how hard it is to not lose your way.)

These threads used to have some twisted entertainment value, but they have become as dull as the Forum has.

Gene
__________________

__________________
Gene

The Airstream is sold; a 2016 Nash 24M replaced it.
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 08:43 AM   #63
Figment of My Imagination
 
Protagonist's Avatar
 
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over , More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene View Post
if you haven't been part of a small group of reformers in a hidebound organization, you can't easily imagine how hard it is to not lose your way.)
As an employee for the Federal Government, the ultimate hidebound organization, I can tell you that the Japanese have it right: Rather than "The squeaky wheel gets the grease," it's "Deru kugi wa utareru" ("The nail that sticks up gets hammered down.")

Reformers do tend to look a lot like nails to the old guard who hold the hammers. The trick is to have enough nails that there aren't enough hammers to get them all.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
Protagonist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 12:58 PM   #64
4 Rivet Member
 
Grand Master's Avatar
 
1963 24' Tradewind
Anderson / Sun City , Indiana / Arizona
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 444
Gene is correct. I was referring to Class A Motorhomes, NOT Interstates. In fact, I rather like the Interstates. And to be clear, I am also not referring to the classic aluminum body Airstream motorhomes manufactured prior to Thor.

This is why these forums and eMails are often the source of rancor and incivilitiy. Because statements are kept brief, they are often misinterpreted.

It seems to me that the only real function of the WBCCI is to promote the Airstream lifestyle. If it ever becomes a general RV Club, it will no longer have a unique personality and will no doubt vanish into obscurity. The Airstream mystique also carries with it a monetary advantage. The value of an Airstream is much higher than average because of quality and their iconic look. As Airstream owners, we should want to support an organization that gives us enjoyment, and promotes the mark. After all, the mystique helps preserve our investment.
__________________
Mike Brumback
WBCCI #1200
Grand Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 01:03 PM   #65
Rivet Master
 
drag'nwagon's Avatar
 
1974 31' Sovereign
1970 23' Safari
1956 26' Cruiser Overlander
Lambertville , Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,174
It appears to me that the MoHo issue has become a right of passage to gain your seat on the IBT. If you are willing to trade tradition, history, original intent, core product, etc for your own selfish motivations against the will of the overwhelming majority(while using thier money) for the sake of the "click" then you are in.

Somebody please show me a picture of Wally in a MoHo, heck show me a picture of any Airstream President in a MoHo!
__________________
Dave
TAC# MI-1
Operation "Save Rudy" Strike Team (charter member)

Yes, I am still working on it.
drag'nwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 01:17 PM   #66
Rivet Master
 
Coloradobus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 832
RV BUsiness last week had an article stating THOR Coporate has finished their move from Jackson Center to Elkhart. So what does that tell you
__________________
JIM n CHRIS
‘62 Overlander 26 ft. ATW Yeager trailer #5289
"62 Airstream 22ft. ATW Hall trailer #83,’90 SQ Sream, ‘06 Bambi Q/S, Prevost Featherlite 45ft, GMC/ Bigfoot camper
Coloradobus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 02:53 PM   #67
Rivet Master
Commercial Member
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples , Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,369
I've said it before, and I'll say it again............

I work primarily on the large, Class A (or A-type as the FMCA prefers top call them) motorhomes. From what i have seen of the offerings by Thor, their BEST EFFORTS are planted somewhere in the MIDDLE OF THE PACK as motor homes go....and more than likely in the bottom half of what are available from the other manufacturers.

The only features that ANY Thor motorhome will have in common with ANY Airstream product will be the parent corporation. And while I hate to break it to you folks.....while the big boxes made by Airstream were OK, they too were never anywhere near the top of the Class A product heap.

When you compare custom built full airbag chassis from Monaco, Country Coach Foretravel, Beaver, Safari, Holiday Rambler and others to the commercially available Freightliner and better Spartan chassis, there is NO COMPARISON! AND I'm not talking about the upper stratosphere occupied by Newell Coach and the various Prevost converters.

Airtream motor homes were built on available raised rail chassis and had nothing extraordinary about them.....with the possible exception of the Airstream logo on them. Oak cabinetry........try mahogany, cherry, birds-eye maple and others used in the above mentioned coaches. Fit and finish........excellent as opposed to simply mediocre. Standard water heaters and LP furnaces.....try hydronic heating and tankless hot water from Aqua-Hot. I could go on and on.......

I'm not trying to denigrate the Airstream motorhome owners (Interstates are a class by themselves), but please be aware of what the market has produced in the past and have a realistic view of what you have.

I think that the classics are great, and should have been updated IN ALUMINUM as a continuance of the Airstream tradition. It is my personal belief that Thor had NO BUSINESS producing a fiberglass motorhome under the Airstream name, as they could not differentiate themselves from the ever-expanding offerings from the higher volume manufacturers either in quality, ride and handling, and interior offerings and had to cease production. You simply can't slap an Airstream badge on an otherwise generic product and expect the market to think that it is in the category of their trailers.

I think that the WBCCI is doomed if they pass their foolish attempt to include Thor motorhomes in the club. If I was still a part of the WBCCI, I would surely resign if it passed. In fact, all of the rancor that the last go-round produced contributed handily to my departure from the WBCCI. WHO NEEDS IT???????

OK, let the flames begin!
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
lewster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 08:53 PM   #68
4 Rivet Member
 
Air Apparent's Avatar
 
Northern Illinois , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by nswhite View Post
After giving this issue way too much thought I've come to realize the solution is simple. All you have to do is buy a Bambi, hitch it to the back of your TV (Prevost, Bluebird, Winnebago, whatever) and you're in.
NSWhite:

Does this mean I would have to sleep in the Bambi or could I sty in my Prevost?
__________________
Dave

2008 Classic 34
Dodge Ram 2500 Quad Cab CTD

AIR #7317 WBCCI #1772 TAC-IL 1
Air Apparent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 09:01 PM   #69
3 Rivet Member
 
nswhite's Avatar
 
2005 30' Classic S/O
Phoenix , Arizona
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air Apparent View Post

NSWhite:

Does this mean I would have to sleep in the Bambi or could I sty in my Prevost?
You can sty anywhere you want.
nswhite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 09:14 PM   #70
4 Rivet Member
 
Air Apparent's Avatar
 
Northern Illinois , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Master View Post
And to be clear, I am also not referring to the classic aluminum body Airstream motorhomes manufactured prior to Thor.
Those classic body Airstream Motorhomes were manufactured by Thor. In August 1980 Wade Thompson and Peter Orthein purchased Airstream from Beatrice. The first two letters of each of their last name was taken to form THOR. Beatrice was so pressed to find a buyer that they sold it to them for no money down; Beatrice loaned them the full amount. So if Thor didn't enter the picture, there most likely would be no Airstream Corporation today.

I'm not a defender of Thor but it's unfair to make accusations without knowing the facts. I'm surprised considering your sceen name.

Source: Wanderlust - Airstream at 75 page 125.
__________________
Dave

2008 Classic 34
Dodge Ram 2500 Quad Cab CTD

AIR #7317 WBCCI #1772 TAC-IL 1
Air Apparent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2013, 10:15 PM   #71
VAC President
 
Buttercup's Avatar
 
1977 27' Overlander
1954 25' Cruiser
1990 34.5' Airstream 345
VC Highlands , Nevada
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,149
Send a message via Skype™ to Buttercup
What bothers me about this whole thing is this - in the past 3 attempts to push this MOHO thing through, no study was ever conducted beyond the 2004 survey of what the membership felt about this. That survey had an overwhelming majority disapprove of having SOB MODOs enter the club to boost membership - yet still, it is pushed year after year... There is another club that has walked down the evivatable path that WBCCI is walking now. We talked about it many times during the old Save Wally Days - that of the Avion Travelcade Club. In desperation, they opened the club up to any product made by Fleetwood, the company that eventually bought the product line. After a few short years the club folded.

Before they did, the final International President wrote the following letter... PLEASE SHARE IT WITH EVERYBODY YOU KNOW.
Quote:
A Message from the President

Burdell & Mable Ann Borchardt
This wonderful club was organized in 1961 and has provided 48 years of memories and great friendships. March 2010 will officially end our reign. As we go forward in these last months let us strive to make it a positive time.
My motto for this year is “LET THE CELEBRATION BEGIN!”
Let us celebrate our club, the years of memories and all the friendships that we have enjoyed. Let us make this a joyful time and close our club down with a huge party!
International may cease to exist but most of our units will continue on with the same spirit of food, fun and fellowship. My challenge to each of you is to work on making your units stronger. In return I promise to work on providing the units with a means of keeping in touch so that we can continue to have combined functions and maybe even a “Reunion” type rally down the line. Maybe from the ashes of our club we will see the rising of a new club.
Help us make our last two Rendezvous’ huge successes by attending and encouraging all our buddies to attend. International is subsidizing both Rendezvous’ so the cost should be very reasonable and I guarantee they will be worth attending.
I want to thank you for the privilege of being your last International President and I will strive to make these last months a positive and fun experience.
Burdell Borchardt #16916
International President
lazyb@worldnet.att.net
(208) 890-0381
3330 S Balthasar Way
Meridian, ID 83642
The question I am left with is who in WBCCI will be writing the same letter?

That club now accepts ANY trailer, camper, MOHO by any manufacturer. They have at least a half a dozen units hanging on. They reorganized under the name of the NORTH AMERICAN RV CLUB. They are a mere shadow of the original club. Do the math from here.
__________________
Buttercup's Web Site. WBCCI #17330, 11281 & 7830. VAC Past President, TAC NV-2 & NV-3
Buttercup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 10:41 AM   #72
Fraubear
 
fraubear's Avatar
 
1968 17' Caravel
Noblesville , Indiana
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
What bothers me about this whole thing is this - in the past 3 attempts to push this MOHO thing through, no study was ever conducted beyond the 2004 survey of what the membership felt about this.
The upcoming WBCCI 2013 will contain this question, if it is approved by the EC. The survey was sent to them March and we are waiting to hear back from 5 of the 6. The one officer who responded was very positive.

"Do you favor or oppose allowing a LIFE or minimum 10 year member. who purchases a Thor Motor Coach Class A Motor Home to remain in the club?"

Hopefully many members will respond and the leadership will hear, once again, that the vast majority of the member do not want to camp next to a Thor motorhome.
fraubear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 12:57 PM   #73
VAC President
 
Buttercup's Avatar
 
1977 27' Overlander
1954 25' Cruiser
1990 34.5' Airstream 345
VC Highlands , Nevada
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,149
Send a message via Skype™ to Buttercup
Well, many responded last time in 2004, it didn't make a difference, they just did it anyway...
__________________
Buttercup's Web Site. WBCCI #17330, 11281 & 7830. VAC Past President, TAC NV-2 & NV-3
Buttercup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 01:49 PM   #74
Figment of My Imagination
 
Protagonist's Avatar
 
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over , More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
Well, many responded last time in 2004, it didn't make a difference, they just did it anyway...
Don't confuse them with facts. Their minds are made up.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
Protagonist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 07:41 PM   #75
Wheels Itch)(Must Travel
 
az-streamer's Avatar
 
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
- east coastal area - , Florida
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 557
Images: 20
*sigh*

new year - same old b.s. re: the moho silliness

once again - the wants of the few outweigh the wants of the many

[ with apologies to Mr. Spock ]
__________________
az-streamer
Jon & Deb
Phoebe & Ellis - Airstreaming Mini-Schauzers

FCU WBCCI #1601
* * * * * * *
I Don’t Always Pull A Trailer
But When I Do - I Pull An Airstream
Keep Moving My Friends
az-streamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 09:31 AM   #76
Rivet Master
 
damonbeals's Avatar
 
1998 31' Excella 1000
1979 23' Safari
Mooresville , Indiana
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protagonist View Post
Don't confuse them with facts. Their minds are made up.
Who are these 'them'. I believe only one member has brought this up, I don't think the entire IBT or EC is behind this. Just as with the 'event tax' at the winter IBT, that was one members suggestion.

Damon
#4827
damonbeals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 09:56 AM   #77
Figment of My Imagination
 
Protagonist's Avatar
 
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over , More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by damonbeals View Post
Who are these 'them'. I believe only one member has brought this up, I don't think the entire IBT or EC is behind this. Just as with the 'event tax' at the winter IBT, that was one members suggestion.

Damon
#4827
It may only be one member's suggestion, but there are multiple members in favor, as evidenced by Post #44 and others on this thread. It's also a generic "Them" because naming names makes it personal and I don't want to make it personal.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
Protagonist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 11:04 AM   #78
4 Rivet Member
 
monah's Avatar

 
2019 27' Globetrotter
1957 16' Bubble
1957 22' Flying Cloud
Hillsboro , Oregon
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 426
Images: 171
Blog Entries: 8
To put this in perspective....we sent out an electronic survey to ~150 members & affiliates of our Unit. So far we've received 54 responses (fantastic given that the survey just went out two days ago)....87% of those respondents voted NO on the proposed Constitutional amendment and one-third of them said they would leave the club if this passed.

There are quite a few affiliates from nearby Units who own motorhomes so perhaps the other 13% that voted YES came from there - we have no way to confirm that ....wanting to keep the survey anonymous.

We need to encourage other Units to do the same....speaking from a fact-based foundation is critical!!!

Mona
#3339
__________________
M
monah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 11:25 AM   #79
Rivet Master
 
Smartstream's Avatar

 
1982 28' Airstream 280
Port Angeles , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,846
Quote:
Originally Posted by monah View Post
To put this in perspective....we sent out an electronic survey to ~150 members & affiliates of our Unit. So far we've received 54 responses (fantastic given that the survey just went out two days ago)....87% of those respondents voted NO on the proposed Constitutional amendment and one-third of them said they would leave the club if this passed.

There are quite a few affiliates from nearby Units who own motorhomes so perhaps the other 13% that voted YES came from there - we have no way to confirm that ....wanting to keep the survey anonymous.

We need to encourage other Units to do the same....speaking from a fact-based foundation is critical!!!

Mona
#3339
Your thoughts on the 13% may be a good guess however we have a Classic Airstream Motorhome and we quit the WBCCI because of the ridiculous politics, not because we want to buy a Thor Moho.
__________________
Cheers, Dan
________________________________________


"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
~ Margaret Thatcher ~
Smartstream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 11:37 AM   #80
Figment of My Imagination
 
Protagonist's Avatar
 
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over , More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartstream View Post
Your thoughts on the 13% may be a good guess however we have a Classic Airstream Motorhome and we quit the WBCCI because of the ridiculous politics, not because we want to buy a Thor Moho.
Of course. Thing is, the WBCCI members who want to buy Thor class A's don't want to leave the club. If they left the club because they want to buy Thors, then this whole issue would be a non-issue.

Which kind of puts "them" in the incomprehensible position of being more loyal to WBCCI than they are to Airstream. Despite the fact that WBCCI members are a subset of Airstream owners, not vice versa.
__________________

__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
Protagonist is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.