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Old 03-28-2013, 11:16 AM   #21
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To answer Protagonist questions.
When I was on the MoHo Commettee 2011 I did ask Cindy Reed for data on Motor homes. 400 MoHo in the club, of that she couldn't give me a breakdown of b-vans, vintage, new style.
At IBT this winter,I have say,I have never seen more Airstream motorhomes as I did there, about 1/4 to 1/3 of the 80 rigs present were MoHo. 4 were classics and 1 was a b-van and 1 interstate.
Of the current IP and IVP 2 had MOHO's and 3 had trailers. The International secretary and treasurer also had trailers.
I didn't do a count of region officers but I can tell you Region 10 officers have 2 with trailers and 1 with a MOHO. All region 12 officers have trailers. If anyone else knows about their region officers it would be good to know the stats.
I also talked to members at the IBT, all MOHO owners, what a surprise, of the 8 I talked with only 1 said they would buy a new Thor Motor Home and that was because the Moho they had was to big. All the others said this would be their last RV and or they would not spend the money on a newer MoHo.
As a club we are turning the corner on membership because the Airstream Trailer is becoming more popular as the RV of choice for the boomer
generation. The units that are growing and turning this club around are the ones with the support of their Airstream dealer.
The last thing I want to comment on is, as we traveled the South West this winter we did see a lot of MotorHomes of all brands. A lot of those MoHo were used as condos just to stay in the RV resort for the Winter then go home. Many were for sale as owners were realizing it was cheaper to buy a park model in a park and just drive or fly home. That's one thing I didn't expect.
Do we really think Thor MoHo owners would want to join an Airstream club with all those little silver tin cans. And also, what will the Thor Club think of us trying to steal their members. This is not being very nice to our Thor Sister club.
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:26 AM   #22
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The motor home motion originally came up for a vote in 2007 in Perry, GA. I believe that it was over 70% against. It has been festering ever since.
Also--for the benefit of the newbies--WBCCI asked this question as part of a general poll of the members in 2004:

Q: "The WBCCI membership base should be broadened to include any RV brand made by Thor Industries, parent company of Airstream." (1058 respondents)


Response:
1.Strongly agree = 91/8.53%


2.Agree 129/12.09%


3.Disagree 206/19.31%


4.Strongly Disagree 610/57.17%


5.No Opinion 22/2.06%


In other words, 76% of the membership opposed the admission of other Thor brands into WBCCI.

No, this is not a new issue.
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:40 AM   #23
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The last couple responses have helped put things into better perspective for me. Thanks much.

So, next question, is it the same person putting forth this motion every time? Or people from the same Unit?

I ask because, if so few of the movers and shakers would even be interested in owning a Thor motorhome, I have to wonder if the pool of people who will genuinely benefit from the motion—if by some horrible miracle it passes— is limited to just one?
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:30 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Protagonist View Post
The last couple responses have helped put things into better perspective for me. Thanks much.

So, next question, is it the same person putting forth this motion every time? Or people from the same Unit?

I ask because, if so few of the movers and shakers would even be interested in owning a Thor motorhome, I have to wonder if the pool of people who will genuinely benefit from the motion—if by some horrible miracle it passes— is limited to just one?
There's the $64,000 question.

In my opinion there are a few folks at the top of the leadership pyramid who are faced with the possibility that when their class A is no longer in service and cannot be replaced in kind, they will need to relinquish their roles. Great leaders backfill with newer great leaders who are prepared to fill the voids; they stuff the pipeline with talented and energetic folks. This is how successful organizations evolve and keep moving forward.

A more moderate (and compassionate) stance might be to allow membership for the ten year + crowd without an Airstream, but exclude them from holding office. Set up a new membership category for some sort of affiliate. They can attend rallies, participate in local unit activities with friends, etc but have limited leadership roles.

As an argosy owner, I'm keenly aware that it's tough to feel excluded and that some compassion is in order, but have the nagging feeling that this whole MOHO proposal is about power and position, not camping.
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:33 PM   #25
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A more moderate (and compassionate) stance might be to allow membership for the ten year + crowd without an Airstream, but exclude them from holding office. Set up a new membership category for some sort of affiliate. They can attend rallies, etc but have limited leadership roles.
Members Emeritus. They could attend the events. They could wear the berets. But they couldn't vote or hold office. Hey, if it's good enough for the former pope…
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:19 PM   #26
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The Class A proponents won't agree to any restrictions placed on them, unless they have had a change of heart I haven't heard about.
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:50 PM   #27
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As I understand it, this was given to the Bylaws Committee (in June 2012) to address some technical parts of the earlier amendment. I believe it was always expected to come back for a vote, albeit possibly slightly revised.

So now it's revised, with the part about the Life and/or 10yr membership clause and (I think) the part about Class A added. Anyway, the vote will be interesting - one way or the other it may get resolved this June...
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:53 PM   #28
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The Class A proponents won't agree to any restrictions placed on them, unless they have had a change of heart I haven't heard about.
This possibility was considered in the Motor Home Special Committee report to the July, 2011 IBT meeting:

Quote:
It was also suggested that if Thor motor homes were allowed in the club, the owners could not hold office in WBCCI, and, in fact, they could only be affiliate members. The majority of this committee's members judged that to be extremely biased and prejudicial.
So take that, all you biased and prejudiced members.
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Old 03-29-2013, 03:27 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Aolani View Post
As I understand it, this was given to the Bylaws Committee (in June 2012) to address some technical parts of the earlier amendment. I believe it was always expected to come back for a vote, albeit possibly slightly revised.

So now it's revised, with the part about the Life and/or 10yr membership clause and (I think) the part about Class A added. Anyway, the vote will be interesting - one way or the other it may get resolved this June...
Unless it fails, in which case we'll see it next year, too.
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Old 03-29-2013, 04:59 AM   #30
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It was also suggested that if Thor motor homes were allowed in the club, the owners could not hold office in WBCCI, and, in fact, they could only be affiliate members. The majority of this committee's members judged that to be extremely biased and prejudicial.
And yet until very recently, members at large— who actually owned Airstreams and not Thors— couldn't vote or hold office. Now they can vote, at least. Double standards, anyone?

The whole MoHo ithue maketh my brain thor…
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Old 03-29-2013, 05:52 AM   #31
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And yet until very recently, members at large— who actually owned Airstreams and not Thors— couldn't vote or hold office. Now they can vote, at least.
That's news to me. When did that happen?
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:14 AM   #32
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That's news to me. When did that happen?
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I am mistaken. They can't. Apologies.
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:39 AM   #33
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Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"

We had similar in other "groups".. Motorcycling primarily.

We supported it from perspective of "it isn't WHAT you ride, it is THAT you RIDE!"

There is no doubt of strength in numbers. This can strengthen. It can also devolve. Generally folks with lots of cash dominate the direction. The problem is that the "group" slowly excludes and may even shun the "less desirable" who often are the founders who helped, contributed, but did not force "change".

Well, that is a problem in my view.

Caution is often thrown to the wind to APPEAR to be inclusive...to grow membership... It changes relationship. It changes trust. Deep down we are made to belong. Even "loners" or 1%ers, belong.
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:32 AM   #34
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What bothers me, is the claim that we will be able to increase club membership if we allow SOB MHO into the club. If these people really cared about the club, they would focus on attracting new members that have purchased AS trailers of which I am seeing a lot of new ones on the road. I'm sorry that they cannot go out and buy another class A MHO from AS but after the vote from Perry GA it should be clear enough that the membership has decided.
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:52 AM   #35
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What bothers me, is the claim that we will be able to increase club membership if we allow SOB MHO into the club.
And no wonder; it cannot possibly increase membership. The MoHo issue only applies to people who buy life memberships, or who hold annual memberships for ten years or more. No one, NO ONE, is going to join just because if they stick around for ten years they will be able to sell their expensive Airstream and buy an even more expensive Thor Class A without leaving the club. As a membership incentive, it's a non-starter.

All the issue can possibly do is allow a few select present members, who are tired of owning an Airstream and want to move up to something bigger and more impressive, to continue to play in the same sandbox they always have. They don't want to start again at the bottom as a junior member of a new club, when they're on the top of their present club.

I'd much rather see WBCCI's focus directed toward finding realistic and effective ways to attract and keep new members around for ten years, than to reward present members for brand disloyalty after they've stuck around that long.

Okay. I've ranted and raved too long and too often on this subject. I'll go back to lurking, and let cooler and saner heads continue the discussion in a more meaningful direction.
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:13 AM   #36
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Question. Did YOU join the WBCCI to belong to an Airstream club? Or a Thor club? Agree with Blue Pearl's post as a Thor club already exists. Also wonder, as Protagonist has noted, how many people could be affected by this. I have a feeling they are not the people who are on Forums to share their concern.

The can was literally kicked down the road at last year's International in Sedalia when it was stopped by a very, VERY alert member who called it on a constitutionality issue. It was sent back to the C&BL Standing Committee for rewording. We now have it before us. Take the time to read the motion, discuss it with members of your unit, your region. But make sure your voice is heard in Huron, South Dakota.

This thread has offered some lively discussion, let's keep it going!
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:55 AM   #37
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We joined the WBCCI immediately after buying our '69 Tradewind...and 2.5 years before we could actually camp in our Airstream. We joined because we bought an Airstream and so we could camp with Airstreams....and along the way have made some incredible friendships (many of whom have contributed to this thread).

When we're out camping on our own I absolutely LOVE seeing everyone enjoy the outdoors, how they decorate their campsite and the smell of campfires......don't really care what people are camping in and usually stop to visit cute little vintage trailers.

When we're at a Wally-club rally I absolutely LOVE being surrounded by all of those aluminum Airstreams...visiting with friends, meeting new friends and in general enjoying the Airstream lifestyle. I don't want my Airstream dwarfed by a MOHO with slide-outs...regardless of whether it's manufactured by Thor, Prevost or any other brand.

Protaganist - Totally agree with you, I've always wondered how someone who has been so immersed in the club could so quickly abandon it's heritage to satisfy their personal needs.

This club can grow, and thrive, and evolve to meet the needs of current and future members.....we need to focus on that!!! As SilverPal said: "Take the time to read the motion, discuss it with members of your unit, your region. But make sure your voice is heard in Huron, South Dakota."

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Old 03-29-2013, 12:35 PM   #38
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We joined the WBCCI immediately after buying our '69 Tradewind...and 2.5 years before we could actually camp in our Airstream. We joined because we bought an Airstream and so we could camp with Airstreams....and along the way have made some incredible friendships (many of whom have contributed to this thread).

When we're out camping on our own I absolutely LOVE seeing everyone enjoy the outdoors, how they decorate their campsite and the smell of campfires......don't really care what people are camping in and usually stop to visit cute little vintage trailers.

When we're at a Wally-club rally I absolutely LOVE being surrounded by all of those aluminum Airstreams...visiting with friends, meeting new friends and in general enjoying the Airstream lifestyle. I don't want my Airstream dwarfed by a MOHO with slide-outs...regardless of whether it's manufactured by Thor, Prevost or any other brand.

Protaganist - Totally agree with you, I've always wondered how someone who has been so immersed in the club could so quickly abandon it's heritage to satisfy their personal needs.

This club can grow, and thrive, and evolve to meet the needs of current and future members.....we need to focus on that!!! As SilverPal said: "Take the time to read the motion, discuss it with members of your unit, your region. But make sure your voice is heard in Huron, South Dakota."

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well said, Mona!
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Old 03-29-2013, 05:37 PM   #39
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If this turns off long term members, imagine how it looks to nonmembers—the longer this bickering goes on in the WBCCI, the more potential members just look at the club and stay away. Thus, a reputation grows—it is far easier to destroy one than build a good one. Even if the leaders of the club were all replaced by reasonable people, it would take years to live down the mess that has been made already.

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Old 03-29-2013, 06:07 PM   #40
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This is the same motion that came up at the 2012 Delegates Meeting. There was an attempt to call the question (which I think would have resulted in the motion being voted down) but it did not succeed. Instead the motion was sent to the Constitution and Bylaws Committee to correct technical deficiencies, so here it is again.

I'm hopeful that it will be put to a vote this time, and voted down again.

If it passes, it won't bother me too much, because at that point I'll be through with WBCCI.
.
Ah I remember now. This is the same author and issue from within my region that has led me and my family to leave the WBCCI. I have had enough of the self proclaimed elites using the money from my membership to push thier agenda .

I have witnessed first hand (with my own ears) said individual not only bad mouth members (including the past president from my former unit) but say "Inexperience will kill this club". That did it for us, and after we fed them that eveing we anounced that we would not be sending our dues for 2013.

So now that I have no skin in the game, I suppose my curiosity on this subject is just that, curiosity.
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