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Old 06-04-2013, 12:18 PM   #321
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I meant that if you think the issue is funny, then ignore this thread ,not the Moho issue.
the fact that such a large % of AS owners are HUGELY against the MOHO inclusion option, and

the fact that these discussions result in such passionate reactions year after year

shows how seriously we all take the issue.

the fact that this issue resurfaces AT ALL shows the boneheadedness [sp?] of the leadership and the small minority who want this self-serving option passed.

do we think the issue is 'funny'? what do you mean by 'funny' [with a tip of the bat to joe pesci].

sometimes humor is a just a release of tension, like poking a sharp stick into an inflated balloon.

as others have noted, the minority group would love this discussion to fade away.


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Old 06-04-2013, 12:18 PM   #322
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(one of the Units I belong to is leaving tomorrow to caravan up there),
Are they walking or are they some of the Free Loaders?

We will joke about it now since the die is cast for this year. We will get very serious when they put it up again.
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:25 PM   #323
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With the masses preparing to converge on Huron, SD..... all have little left to do but wait anxiously for the motion to be defeated....
after the motion is defeated, can we continue to post on MOHO 2013 or do we have to wait for the inevitable resurrection of this option as "MOHO 2014?"
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:29 PM   #324
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Are they walking or are they some of the Free Loaders?
One delegate, one alternate, the rest volunteers milking the perks for all they're worth, in exchange for doing their fair share of the chores. Not that there are very many chores to go around when something like 50% of the attendees at the rally are volunteers on one committee or another.
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Old 06-04-2013, 02:31 PM   #325
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One delegate, one alternate, the rest volunteers milking the perks for all they're worth, in exchange for doing their fair share of the chores. Not that there are very many chores to go around when something like 50% of the attendees at the rally are volunteers on one committee or another.
I had to laugh at that response. At some point there will be one volunteer for each member in attendance at the International. The Leadership will tell us that that is personnel service and the result of fantastic management of our Club.
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Old 06-04-2013, 02:45 PM   #326
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At some point there will be one volunteer for each member in attendance at the International.
Maybe in a few years the volunteers will be the only ones there.

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Old 06-04-2013, 03:29 PM   #327
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Maybe in a few years the volunteers will be the only ones there.

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In their Thor Industries Class A's, no doubt.
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:43 PM   #328
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In their Thor Industries Class A's, no doubt.
They'll want Newell's by then.

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Old 06-04-2013, 05:49 PM   #329
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They couldn't afford them if they think a Thor motor home is traveling in 'style'!
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Old 06-04-2013, 06:36 PM   #330
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The one Region President that I have spoken to said her next would be a Prevost. not sure if she will call for another vote or just claim Thor made it.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:37 PM   #331
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There are a number of members that have served the club well over the years. But, if they want to resign by purchasing a different brand of MOHO, so be it. It is their choice. THIS IS AN AIRSTREAM CLUB.
We have a good example in our unit; there is someone that has served on unit, region and national positions and i believe is a life member. Do we evict them if they want to purchase a new MOHO?
Again, this IS an AIRSTREAM CLUB.
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Old 06-05-2013, 05:49 AM   #332
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The one Region President that I have spoken to said her next would be a Prevost. not sure if she will call for another vote or just claim Thor made it.
Unfortunately for the Region 1 President, Thor does not build a Prevost conversion motor home, and I am certain that at $750,000 for a bare Prevost shell, they won't be getting into that end of the business any time soon!!!
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Old 06-05-2013, 07:56 AM   #333
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If so many Airstreamers want large mohos why don't they put pressure on Airstream to build them ? I understand that the market is really on the upswing now and as we travel I see many of these units on the road.
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Old 06-05-2013, 08:30 AM   #334
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If so many Airstreamers want large mohos why don't they put pressure on Airstream to build them ? I understand that the market is really on the upswing now and as we travel I see many of these units on the road.
"Many" is a relative term. Creating an assemly line at Jackson Center to produce Class As is a tremendous financial risk. The cost of tooling up an assembly line, and designing a unit, has to be amortized over a lot of units to avoid them being too overpriced to sell. So, unless they can expect to sell a few hundred a year, every year, it's probably not worth trying to break into a market that's already heavily saturated with established class A motorhome marques by other manufacturers.

Even if every WBCCI member who wants a shiny new class A and can afford one were to order one from Airstream, it would only be a year's production at best, and then the assembly line would have to be retooled, at additional expense, to produce something else, thus increasing the financial risk.

It might have been different, possibly, if Airstream never stopped producing class A's, and still had an assembly line to produce them. But having stopped, the startup costs to begin producing them again are prohibitive, and they'll never sell enough units to make it profitable. Airstream, like all companies, is in business to make a profit, not to sell at a loss to please a few disgruntled old geezers with inflated opinions of their importance to WBCCI.

The crux of the MoHo issue is not that these members want a class A motorhome. There are more than enough models out there for them to choose from, to fit whatever inflated budget they may have. The problem is that they want a class A motorhome without having to quit WBCCI to buy one. Having reached the upper echelons of WBCCI, they don't want to start over at the bottom of FMCA or whatever other club they'd join. Basic fact of politics, those in power have a vested interest in staying in power, so that they can enjoy privileges only available to those in power. The law of double standards. That applies to the politics of a club just as much as to the politics of a nation.

And it's exactly that mindset that keeps the MoHo issue alive long after the issue should have been dead and buried.
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Old 06-05-2013, 08:54 AM   #335
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"


Basic fact of politics, those in power have a vested interest in staying in power, so that they can enjoy privileges only available to those in power. The law of double standards. That applies to the politics of a club just as much as to the politics of a nation.
And it's exactly that mindset that keeps the MoHo issue alive long after the issue should have been dead and buried.
Do you think they will renew the systematic "Expulsion" of those that think differently from them again? Are we at risk posting here? Not sure I could fight the IRS and the WBCCI at the same time.
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:07 AM   #336
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Do you think they will renew the systematic "Expulsion" of those that think differently from them again? Are we at risk posting here? Not sure I could fight the IRS and the WBCCI at the same time.
If WBCCI reaches the point that they feel the need to stifle our right to free speech by expelling those who disagree with their lofty opinions, so be it. They'd be better off without us, and we'd be better off without them, too.

WBCCI officers hold their offices for the benefit of the club. The club does not exist for the benefit of the officers. When that stops being true, we should ALL quit, because it will only be their club, not our club.
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:39 AM   #337
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You have not been in the club long enough to know that Thishas already been done in the past. There are members here who can tell the history better than me, but just let me say that there were members kick out of the club. Lawyers were involved. Jim
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:55 AM   #338
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While I have not been expelled from the Club yet I do have my "Cease and Desist" letter from the Club's Lawyers framed and hanging on my bathroom wall for inspiration when I really need it.

That letter probably cost the Club $500.00. They spent close to $25,000 to expel one member. Not sure what the other expulsion may have cost them.

But be fore warned they wil not hesitate to spend your dues in pursuit of the retention of their benefits and the advancement of their agenda.

Any idea of the cost to date for the MOHO issue
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:09 AM   #339
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You have not been in the club long enough to know that Thishas already been done in the past. There are members here who can tell the history better than me, but just let me say that there were members kick out of the club. Lawyers were involved. Jim
I am aware that it has been done in the past, though it was before my time. But if I was one of the ones expelled for dissenting opinions, there would be no lawyers involved, because I wouldn't fight the expulsion. Unlike the folks who want to buy a non-Airstream MoHo but still keep their club membership, I don't feel I'm personally so crucial to WBCCI that I'd fight to stay in against concerted opposition. Membership is a priviledge, not an inalienable right.

The WBCCI Code of Ethics says:
[QUOTE]To be ever mindful of what we say or print with respect to its effect on others so as to avoid disharmony and ill feelings among club members and to dedicate ourselves to the work of cementing together the members of WBCCI in bonds of good fellowship and mutual understanding.[/QUOTE]

"Avoiding disharmony" does not require all of us to agree with each other, else we'd never need to vote on anything. It does require that we all abide by the results of a vote, and not keep raising the same issue over and over despite clear opposition from the majority.

Likewise, "mutual understanding" doesn't require that we all think in lockstep. But it does require that we listen to each other's viewpoints even if we can't agree with them.

The MoHo issue is a source of disharmony, in my opinion, and those of us on both sides who have strong opinions on the subject are at risk of not understanding those on the opposite side.

For those reasons I sincerely hope that— regardless of the result of the MoHo vote— that it's the LAST time the subject of expanding membership to include non-Airstream products is raised, so that we can all get back to "fun, fellowship, and adventure."
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:33 PM   #340
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I've been in organizations (nonprofit and for profit) where people in power always found a way to say no to anything new. They say "we tried that" or "it's been done" or "it costs too much". If a board directs the administrators to do something new, they avoid it and act like it never happened (passive aggressive behavior). It didn't matter that the new thing may have been ahead of its time or it was done badly, often by the same people. Lots of people do not like the prospect of change because they are afraid they won't know how to retain power or it is just different.

So it is with Airstream—they tried thermopane windows decades ago and they didn't work, possibly because they were poor quality. It doesn't matter that other RV companies use thermopane windows successfully—"we tried that". They tried Class A's and they couldn't sell enough to be successful. They are very unlikely to try Class A's again. The cost of doing it again, as Protagonist amply explained, is too high for a company that wishes to cut costs all the time, pile up profits and relies on a proven design that they could have never imagined themselves, to sell products.

Ironically, the WBCCI leadership is much the same in attitude.

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