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Old 05-01-2013, 03:27 PM   #201
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In the consolidation of the RV industry that the current economy has presented Thor is one of the companies acquiring those less fortunate as they become available.

Just think we could have Beavers, Treks, any or all of the Fleetwoods, to say nothing of the more expensive coaches that they really want.

Someone commented resiliently that there were on about 7,000 class A motor homes sold last year. That should but a few companies on the block very soon.
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:41 PM   #202
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Another thing that members need to be aware of is that right after this motion was introduced at the 2012 Delegates Meeting, there were a flurry of motions to amend it. Since none of them went anywhere I don't think they were recorded in the minutes.

As I recall, one of the proposed amendments was to eliminate the requirement for life membership or a period of regular membership--i.e. to simply open the club to non-Airstream motor homes, period.

Here again, if I remember correctly, another was to open membership to any brand of Class A motor home as long as it displayed some kind of "Airstream" sticker.

The point being that members need to let their delegates know not only their opinion of what the motion presently says but also expresses their opinion of possible transmogrifications that the Delegates may end up with.

My own opinion--and that of most members I have talked with--is unequivocal: No, No, and No! The unit vote totals that have been posted on Airforums seem to indicate that is the prevailing opinion.
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:56 PM   #203
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Corporate minutes are supposed to contain every motion, the mover and seconder and vote results.

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Old 05-01-2013, 07:59 PM   #204
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The meeting was recorded and posted on the WBCCI site for a while after the meeting. I have downloaded it and will forward to any member who would like to listen.

Bill

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Corporate minutes are supposed to contain every motion, the mover and seconder and vote results.

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Old 05-01-2013, 08:00 PM   #205
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Good to know it was taped, but the minutes are supposed to have the information.

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Old 05-01-2013, 09:29 PM   #206
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Corporate minutes are supposed to contain every motion, the mover and seconder and vote results.

Gene
Your post caused me to actually go look at the minutes of the 2012 Delegates Meeting, which are posted on the WBCCI web site at

http://www.wbcci.org/general-informa.../finish/73/449

There is no mention of the motions to amend the MoHo Amendment. Possibly this is because none of them went even so far as discussion, let alone a vote. The motion to send it to the C&BL committee took precedence.

Questions as to whether the motion to send it to the C&BL committee should have taken precedence over the motions to amend, and whether or not the latter should have been recorded even though they never went to a vote, I will leave to the parliamentarians and lawyers.

I would also note that the votes reported from the units to date this year seem to be even more negative than last year. I suspect this reflects a combination of two factors, (1) disagreement with the motion and (2) disgust at seeing it again.
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Old 05-02-2013, 08:38 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by Nuvite-F View Post
Your post caused me to actually go look at the minutes of the 2012 Delegates Meeting, which are posted on the WBCCI web site at

http://www.wbcci.org/general-informa.../finish/73/449

There is no mention of the motions to amend the MoHo Amendment. Possibly this is because none of them went even so far as discussion, let alone a vote. The motion to send it to the C&BL committee took precedence.

Questions as to whether the motion to send it to the C&BL committee should have taken precedence over the motions to amend, and whether or not the latter should have been recorded even though they never went to a vote, I will leave to the parliamentarians and lawyers.

I would also note that the votes reported from the units to date this year seem to be even more negative than last year. I suspect this reflects a combination of two factors, (1) disagreement with the motion and (2) disgust at seeing it again.
.
One would wonder why this has come up for a vote again. As Harry Reid often says, its DOA. So why, whats the real game plan? Politics even in WBCCI are most often smoke and mirrors while everyone is concentrating on the right hand the left hand is slipping something through. But what do I know.
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Old 05-02-2013, 03:04 PM   #208
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Don, You're the member they want this motion to pass for, so you can get a newer Thor Moho when your Airstream wears out or you want more slides. Will you buy a 2007 or newer Thor brand Moho?
We must realize that the group wanting to add Thor Motorhomes don't think of this club as an Airstream brand club but a RV club that has Airstreams in it, they do not have aluminitis and think of the WBCCI as a social RV club for caravans and rallies. They came into the club for a whole different reason than most of us. They came in at the height of the Motorhome craze and think that Motorhomes will save the club. That is not the way people travel today, no long expensive fuel trips every year. They fly or drive south and stay in a rental unit, buy a condo or RV and leave it at the RV resort over the summer. RVing now is for touring in smaller class b & c motorhomes and camping in trailers close to home. RVing is not for Class A motorhomes anymore, only 7000 sold last year, they are going the way of the whole room computer. just my take on the whole thing.
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:12 PM   #209
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Don, You're the member they want this motion to pass for, so you can get a newer Thor Moho when your Airstream wears out or you want more slides. Will you buy a 2007 or newer Thor brand Moho?
We must realize that the group wanting to add Thor Motorhomes don't think of this club as an Airstream brand club but a RV club that has Airstreams in it, they do not have aluminitis and think of the WBCCI as a social RV club for caravans and rallies. They came into the club for a whole different reason than most of us. They came in at the height of the Motorhome craze and think that Motorhomes will save the club. That is not the way people travel today, no long expensive fuel trips every year. They fly or drive south and stay in a rental unit, buy a condo or RV and leave it at the RV resort over the summer. RVing now is for touring in smaller class b & c motorhomes and camping in trailers close to home. RVing is not for Class A motorhomes anymore, only 7000 sold last year, they are going the way of the whole room computer. just my take on the whole thing.
I did not come in at the height of the "Motorhome Craze", I have had Airstream trailers and have been a member of WBCCI going back to 1985. I still have my 1976 31' sovereign, fully refurnished, and I still use it regularly and will continue to do so. When I decided that I also wanted a Motorhome I only looked at Airstreams and bought a beautiful 2005 Airstream 396XL and plan on having it for years to come. I am against the Thor MoHo amendment as as mush as I assume you are. Not because I am against Motor Homes in general as you are, but because I to support the requirement of only the Airstream brand products being part the WBCCI. My comments were, why is this coming up again when it will not pass. What do "they" hope to gain.
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:34 PM   #210
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RVing is not for Class A motorhomes anymore, only 7000 sold last year, they are going the way of the whole room computer. just my take on the whole thing.
Just to be fair, "only 7000 sold" doesn't necessarily make them a dying breed. In terms of revenue dollars rather than units sold, their price tags make each one count at least double compared to even the most expensive travel trailers. When you get up into that stratospheric price range, the rule is, "go big or go home."

But on the other hand— and there's always an "other hand"— you could say Class As never really have been for camping. A lot of the Class As I've seen in my area aren't even really used for camping; they're bought as "ultimate tailgaters" so the owners can follow their favorite college or pro team wherever they play, and the only places they're ever parked is at home or at a stadium. Parking in a forest where their precious rig might get dirty (and where satellite reception sucks for their 60-inch plasma TVs) probably never even occurs to them.
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:50 PM   #211
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For those who may not yet see the reasoning behind the repeated presentation of the MoHo issue this may clear it up for you. The Officers of the Club get PAID to travel around and they would like to improve their accommodation. All of the larger Class A MoHo have generators to run the AC while you and I are asked to deal with 3 amp electric or pay half the national debt for higher amperage at THEIR rallies.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the welfare of the Club or the retention of the General Membership.

Ford only made the true T Bird for 3 years. Do you see those in the Classic T Bird Clubs asking if they can by a Corvette and stay in the T Bird Club?

This is just pure arrogance marketed as Club preservation. And when defeated this year it will be reintroduced next year as it has been in the past. They believe apathy is on side.
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:03 PM   #212
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The Officers of the Club get PAID to travel around and they would like to improve their accommodation. All of the larger Class A MoHo have generators to run the AC while you and I are asked to deal with 3 amp electric or pay half the national debt for higher amperage at THEIR rallies.
My Airstream Interstate comes with a built-in generator too, so they don't need to buy a Thor to get that convenience. And an Interstate costs less than half the price of a Thor, too.

Of course, they wouldn't get a whole lot of room with an Interstate. As I like to put it: all the comforts of home, but only one comfort at a time. But in exchange for less elbow room, they'd also get a real Airstream, made in Jackson Center even though it's not aluminum. And it would be infinitely safer for the old fogeys to drive a 23-foot, 5˝-ton van than to steer 45~50 feet and 11~13 tons of juggernaut that doesn't even count the toad— excuse me, dinghy, let's not be irreverent— that they'd couple to it.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:11 PM   #213
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:13 PM   #214
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Hey Protagonist -
Love it that you own an Interstate - such a premium camping experience!!!! I'm in lust with the cabinet pulls and actually purchased the Dometic cooktop & sink set for our '58 Bubble )
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:14 PM   #215
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:39 PM   #216
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One would wonder why this has come up for a vote again.
Assuming that your puzzlement is actual, rather than rhetorical, the reason is simple. The current motion is not up for a vote "again" because it hasn't been voted on yet.

Here's what happened:

1. IBT made the motion at the 2012 Delegates Meeting.

2. 2012 Delegates Meeting voted to send it to the International Constitution and Bylaws Committee to correct parliamentary deficiencies in the motion. (a.k.a "kicking the can down the road").

3. Now it's back from the C&BL Committee for a vote at the 2013 Delegates Meeting.

Hopefully this time it will get an up-or-down vote and be voted down. Then we are shut of it until the next time the non-Airstream motor home faction brings it up again.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:48 PM   #217
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And they will bring it back again and again. They believe that they do all the work in the club and without them the club would die.

Bill

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Originally Posted by Nuvite-F View Post
Assuming that your puzzlement is actual, rather than rhetorical, the reason is simple. The current motion is not up for a vote "again" because it hasn't been voted on yet.

Here's what happened:

1. IBT made the motion at the 2012 Delegates Meeting.

2. 2012 Delegates Meeting voted to send it to the International Constitution and Bylaws Committee to correct parliamentary deficiencies in the motion. (a.k.a "kicking the can down the road").

3. Now it's back from the C&BL Committee for a vote at the 2013 Delegates Meeting.

Hopefully this time it will get an up-or-down vote and be voted down. Then we are shut of it until the next time the non-Airstream motor home faction brings it up again.
.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:57 PM   #218
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Don, I figured you were against the Thor Moho motion and I'm sure many other Motorhome owner are also, I'm not against Airstream Motorhomes, my favorite is the 2005 30ft with slide, it's on my wish list.
I'm just against the International president of the WBCCI Airstream owners club driving around in a Thor Motorhome!
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:41 AM   #219
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Actually the WBCCI is a social club for carravanning and rally's. Ownership is required and use of these were encouraged. Now it seems ownership is required, but use is not necessary as seen by all the vintage units being restored and never get on the road and new units that are driveway jewelry. Kind of like most Harley owners. Maybe people who do not use their AS and Harley owners who do not ride can get together and form a driveway jewelry rv club. Jim
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:00 PM   #220
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Now it seems ownership is required...
Not the case. WBCCI Life Members can be active in the club without owning an Airstream. The caveat is that they cannot own any other RV.
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