WBCCI MOHO issue - 2010 to 2012

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by RickDavis

I wonder if that is a standard in all unit constitution, in which case our impromptu unit meeting called at the state rally would not count as a business meeting. Aren't units required to hold a certain number of meetings per year??

If that is the case we haven't had a meeting in over a year

Our unit constitution calls for a 15 day advance notice of business meetings. Notice is given in the monthly unit newsletter, which is actually published more or less on schedule!

However I am familiar with the workings of another unit whose newsletter is published aperiodically, and I don't remember ever seeing notice of a business meeting. In fairness, they only hold two rallies a year, so the members know the two business meetings will be at the two rallies.
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[LI Pets]

Our unit is 15 days, we have two biz meetings or more if needed.


The one that Carol is stating may be fine if that units bylaws are written like that, but chances are they used the pro-forma.

But it's not worth splitting hairs over a few days, they do not meet in person anyway.

*ARTICLE VI

UNIT BUSINESS MEETINGS

Sec. 1 The annual business meeting of the Unit shall be held during the month of _____________ (usually one of the Fall months). Additional business meetings may be held during any rally of the Unit, and also may be called at any time by a majority vote of the Executive Board. The date, time, location and purpose of all Unit business meetings shall be announced to the members in writing at least fifteen days prior to the meeting. A quorum for conducting business at any business meeting shall be not less than ________ percent of the membership. (Normally 10-15%) (1/19/07)


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[rideair]

"Yep the delegate system works well it may get us the MOHO, if we did a IMIV after a caucus it would not happen."


I think you maybe 180 degrees out on this one. The people who really don't care, won't care whats happening at a MOHO Caucus meeting and will choose not to even provide feedback, vote, etc....

Only those that will be "pushing" for the MOHO will care to show up in real numbers and make sure any and every vote is cast for the MOHO amendment.

Which if you have fewer people casting votes, it will be far easier to get the MOHO amendment through the system.

By allowing THOR MOHO, it will open up the WBCCI to many more possible members and allow us to retain the WBCCI Leadership who has created all the great Special Committees that have tried to help grow the club!

[RickDavis]

Originally Posted by LI Pets

*ARTICLE VI

UNIT BUSINESS MEETINGS

and also may be called at any time by a majority vote of the Executive Board. The date, time, location and purpose of all Unit business meetings shall be announced to the members in writing at least fifteen days prior to the meeting.
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Does this mean that although they can call a meeting at any time they still must provide XX notice?

I would interpret this as meaning a unit could not announce at breakfast at a state rally that they were having a UNIT meeting at 2 PM and count it as one of the required business meetings???


I have requested a copy of our unit constitution but suspect it is the usual boiler plate.

[RickDavis]

I just received a copy of the TN unit constitution from Cindy at J.C. Had it almost as soon as I asked.

It does have the 15 day provision but would appear to only require one meeting a year for elections in the fall. Our fall meeting was done in conjunction with the region rally but I can't recall whether there was notice or not.

Our spring meeting at the state rally obviously does not count as no notice was made, however no voting was done at that meeting either so I guess there is no problem.

Last I knew we didn't have a delegate for the International anyway, unless an alternate has been found. If no one will be a delegate/alternate then I have NO vote under the current system That's why I favor 1m1v.

[LI Pets]

Rick it's very clear I think

Additional business meetings ......15 days notice required IMO

a unit could not announce at breakfast at a state rally that they were having a UNIT meeting at 2 PM and count it as one of the required business meeting

Has nothing to do with it being required or not, it's meeting as such must have notice, if a vote was done it's invalid IMO

I think you should call your UP


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[Kevin245]

Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi

I see the moho thread going the way of the const one. The mods shut the whole thread down instead of blocking a few rules violators, leaving people who want or need info about the thread hanging. jim

The Constitution thread is now open. Take a few minutes to read the re-opening post. WBCCI New Constitution - Page 79 - Airstream Forums

Note that the same rules apply here as well.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

[wheel interested]

Originally Posted by wheel interested

Wasn't the Special Bylaws and Constitution Revision Committee charged only with making a report back to the International President on consolidation and housekeeping measures and an extention granted from their Mid-Winter incompleted due date???

I am wondering if Don Shaefer's claim and non-recommendation (thusly documented and reserved for future implimentation and thusly a fail safe measure for desired results of the EC7's design) that the Special Committee's scope is unconstitutional that action is actually being delayed on a ruling made by the IP and/or parlimentarian to be dismissed according to the outcome of the delegates meeting and whether the EC7 is in favor or opposition to what is finally proposed.

Not exactly so but close enough for government work... Traditionally, regardless of the various special committees formed, only reports are tendered, and action is delayed unless the EC7 is pushing for it, as in the case of the constitution revision, the communication liason committee, 2020, and perhaps others that were recently formed and dissolved. When it comes right down to it, the EC7 and PIPs rule the club and make the decisions. On that much I think we can all agree and have learned as much throughout the years and efforts waged. They keep bringing the motorhome issue back because they are behind it. It is not a membership initiative, which we most often see fail, but it is a leadership initative, which we most often see succeed, at least in lessor matters. Name changes, club identity changes and being a deliberative body as with delegate representation are things they have not been able to push ahead so far.

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by RickDavis

Last I knew we didn't have a delegate for the International anyway, unless an alternate has been found. If no one will be a delegate/alternate then I have NO vote under the current system That's why I favor 1m1v.

Don't forget that your Unit can use an Affiliate member (who belongs to a Unit in your same Region) as an Alternate Delegate. If you currently don't have any Affiliate members willing to be your Alternate Delegate, then you still have time to find one.

Someone from your Region will be going to International. Ask them if they'd be willing to be your Alternate Delegate, and vote according to your Unit's desires. If so, then simply make them an Affiliate of your Unit, at no charge to them in exchange for volunteering.

Your Unit might even consider granting them some additional compensation, such as gas money in exchange for their service. The only other caveat to follow is that your Affiliate Alternate Delegate must solely represent your Unit, not any other.

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by 65GT

The 2010 MetroNY Delegate was NOT an affiliate member prior to agreeing to become the Alternate Delegate. That played out just a few weeks prior to the International and she was a Region 2 member. MetroNY made her an affiliate member the moment she agreed to become the MetroNY Delegate.

She followed MetroNY instructions to tee, just like any club member would, regardless of region.

Okay, I'm confused and am not understanding your post. Did they let your affiliate alternate delegate cast your unit's votes or not?

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by 65GT

... the IBT does not prescribe to your methods. Their intent in their wording is that your Alternate Delegate should already be an affiliate member of your unit, one that is familiar with both the members of your unit and the overall feelings of the members in unit.

Maybe you've forgotten that I am the original author of the Affiliate Alternate Delegate proposal, so you're preaching to the choir.

I offerred it as an alternative to the failed proxy voting proposal in a thread on the WBCCI Member forum. That original proposal did not require that the Affiliate member belong to a Unit in the same Region. At the time, the DENCO Unit Affiliates all belonged to Units outside of our Region, so I was very aware, but because the proposal had little benefit to the DENCO Unit (since it always has a delegate), I let the proposal loose to whoever wanted to run with it.

As a result, it was picked up by the IBT and they formed a committee composed of three Region Presidents, Janie Lichtfuss (Region 11), Roy Bernd (Region 10), and another that I don't remember. Roy reworked the proposal (and later claimed credit for authoring it) and when the committee was done the Affiliate had to belong to a Unit in the same Region, all for the reasons you stated.

My view is that the reworked version nullified much of the amendment's value, but that half a glass is better than an empty glass. And it did demonstrate what happens to a popular proposal when it is turned over to the IBT.

Never the less, there is no Constitutional requirement that the Affiliate member be an Affiliate PRIOR to becoming an Alternate Delegate. I know "they" don't like that, but if they ever denied a Unit's vote on that account then certainly that would be something a Unit could sue the Club over, and for good cause.

Of course the IBT has full authority to interprete the Constitution. Which is why I wrote the DENCO Unit Amendment to Articles IX and XVI, and that is currently out to all Units for their vote.

From the WBCCI Constitution: "Each Unit shall be represented at the Delegates’ Meeting by one Delegate or an Alternate. The Delegate shall be a Regular Member of the Unit represented; the Alternate may be a Regular Member of the Unit represented or an Affiliate Member of the Unit to be represented and a Regular Member of a Unit within the same Region as the Unit represented. No Delegate or Alternate Delegate may represent more than one Unit at the Delegates’ Meeting. (6/30/09)"

[Coloradobus]

NUVITE, I know what we have voted upon in the past. And we agree, the voice of the membership has spoken, NO Mohos!. But, this thing keeps rearing it ugly head. So, we have decided to offer that olive branch of reason, hoping it will quell the unrelenting nag of this issue.

A date needs to be chosen and from that date, this is the compormise we could accept:>>> All Grandfathered '"Lifetime Members" regardless what they currently own, an Airstream trailer or Moho, can trade up to a Class A of THOR making. Remain in the club as long as they wish as "Affiliate Members" with rights and privedges Affiliate Members of a "Unit" enjoy currently in WBCCI. Upon the sale of this agreed upon THOR Class A motorhome, the Grandfathered MOHO Affiliate Member shall relinguish any and all membership in WBCCI if they change Coach Brands to something other than THOR. A Grandfathered THOR-made Class A Coach owner/member of WBCCI can not transfer WBCCI membership to subsequest owners if coach if sold. Surely someone can improve on this, but this our basic idea.

We would agree to this type of wording for a MOHO Motion in WBCCI. The KEY is Affilate Membership. To retain the friends and remain in WBCCI.
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Nuvite, a further modification of this Class A ThOR Class A dilemma, Chris came up with after I posted.

1.Open to all current Airstream Moho owners from a specified date. No restrction whether regular member/owner or Lifetime member/owner.

2.Optioned as an Affiliate Member unable to hold elected office or have a vote such MALs have now.
3. Be full Affiliate Member, until the sale of said THOR Class A and membership not transferrable.
4. At International Rally, parked as a group in "THOR Class A Row" or THOR Class A Section.

Bottom line, there has to be some kind of penalty if they want to call it that for allowing a non-Airstream Class A into WBCCI. A non-voting, non-office holding, parking restricted membership seems to be the least painful way of doing it.
If current MOHO proponents don't want to have restrctions placed on them, then all bets are off.
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[HowieE]

Chris

Your position would most likely be acceptable to any rational individual who was interested in a compromise in order to retain OLD FRIENDS. However that is not the case. Those driving this barge are only interested in their self gratification and image of being above the MASSES.

There is no concealable reason to allow none Airstream units into an Airstream Only Club.

[rideair]

We must trust the insight of all the "Special Committee's" created by the different IP's, IBT's and EC7's that know better than us general members. Some wanted us to to trust the insight of one of the "Special Committee's, so we must trust the insight of all of them.

Is it better to die a slow painfull death or put the final nail in the coffin and get it over with once and for all.

I say, let the banging of the nail begin!

[Coloradobus]

Howie,

The "Olive Branch" idea offered as an "affiliate member status" to own a THOR CLass A Coach and stay in the WBCCI is the most SENSIBLE, RATIONAL, CONSIDERATE, PRACTICAL, ACCOMODATING idea. If those individuals who are driving this barge, as you say, don't accept some form of restriction to own and use an alien RV in WBCCI, and the Club bends over backwards to help them STAY WITH THEIR FRIENDS, then the discussion is done. The bickering must end or the Club is DOOMED.

[HowieE]

As a kid did you play King of the Royal Mountain?

All the kids were willing to play till one or two bullies retained the top of the mountain and the rest of the kids went home seeing little or no chance to win.

You could not reason with the bullies then and i don't think much has changed.



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[Coloradobus]

Leo, Howie,

King of the hill, Who's got the ball, etc yes!
I know, we are just depressed. Not being at Du Quoin to talk in person is frustrating. I would like to talk with a proponent face to face to understand why they are so dead-set on killing this Club with controversy, and devision. If more and more members abdicate, less dues money, less everything and what do these MOHO people have to show for it all. What does that prove. I'm depressed.

[RickDavis]

What is so magical about letting a THOR motorhome into the club? Why not any motorhome ??
Sure Thor owns Airstream but time was that Thor did not own Airstream and anyone watching the goings on in the corporate world knows Thor would sell Airstream in a heartbeat if it was advantageous for them.

I have no particular allegiance to Thor. Let them all in and we can change the name to the "Good Wally Club" while we are at it.

[wheel interested]

Originally Posted by RickDavis

What is so magical about letting a THOR motorhome into the club? Why not any motorhome ??

Why not any kind of recreational vehicle? What is more "Airstreamy" about a Class A than a Class C? or B, or a fifth wheel? And why can't everyone exercise the same options being considered for a small group who can't stay friends unless they belong in the club together, if we are to believe what we are being told?

They want it, they think they are entitled to it, and they think the constitution and club should be changed to let them have and do what they want. The votes have previously barred the change. The simple solution is just vote no...again. KISS. Oh and delegates don't quit your day job as representatives in exchange for direct member voting or the moho amendment may just be more likely to pass.

These are the same who sent Denco's motion to the way back against their own pledge to push it ahead promptly. What was the compromise there? Compromised, unable to function properly because of harmful treatment or exposure, that's it, I keep getting the two terms confused.

[Coloradobus]

Let ' em all in!!!

I really don't care anymore. Let every kind of Class A you can think be purchase by the MOHO crowd.. There are enough start-up Airstream groups around now that will fit the void where WBCCI left off for us Airstreamer Own-lees.