WBCCI MOHO issue - 2010 to 2012

[LI Pets]

Lisa, Metro NY's vote will neutralize yours

[HowieE]

Originally Posted by bolerama

I am sitting in my spring meeting right now in utter disbelief. My unit just voted 10:8 FOR allowing in Thor motorhomes. Un-stinking-believable!
Lisa

Will your delegates vote reflect the actual vote or do they vote the complete membership of the unit?

Maybe we can have our "President" stop you at the boarder. He seams to stop gas from coming across maybe hot air will get the same treatment

[azflycaster]

10 out of 18 is only 55.5% of the vote. That is still under the 66.7% needed for the motion to pass.

[HowieE]

That is 55% of the unit. The question is will the unit vote be cast in that ratio or cast as a complete membership of the unit. The 66% requires to past is at the International level and it is critical as to how the unit vote will be cast. If I remember some unit tell their delegate to vote the original ratio of the unit and some say winner takes all.

Even this unit being a smaller unit I hope they vote the original ratio because ever vote will be require to defeat this insanity.

[dwightdi]

Northern Illinois Unit voted this weekend. Nine units attended but only 8 chose attend the business meeting and vote. This still represents a quorum for our unit. One B-Van owner voted to allow Thor Motor homes. The other 7 trailer owners voted that we should not allow Thor motorhomes, unless they were in a new membership classification, which could not hold office and would lose their right to vote. The issue was fully discussed. The Collins workaround and newer used Airstream motorhomes were brought up as options.

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by dwightdi

The Collins workaround and newer used Airstream motorhomes were brought up as options.

What's "the Collins workaround"?
.

[dwightdi]

Last year, Norm Beu, current International President, confirmed that Jerry Collins, International President in 2008, had indeed bought a new SOB motorhome. Jerry, at the same time, had another WBCCI member put Jerry's name on that member's title to his trailer, as a co-owner. Therefore; Jerry could retain his honorary Life Membership, granted him when he retired from International Presidency. Jerry is a full member and can hold office and vote, but they only get one vote from that trailer. Jerry can not use his motorhome to participate in WBCCI sponsored caravans or park his SOB motorhome with the other WBCCI trailers at rallies where WBCCI has rented the full facility. Nothing can stop him from parking his motorhome off site or using a motel and paying admission to the rallies. WBCCI rallies held at state parks or open campgrounds can not prevent him from parking close to the other WBCCI participants.

I call this the "Collins Cure" or the "Collins Workaround" for the problem of allowing former members, who buy an SOB, to continue to associate with their WBCCI friends without having to change the WBCCI Constitution. By Norms Beu's sanction, it is an acceptable method around the SOB problem and does not limit them as to what brands they can buy.

[HowieE]

So the real incentive behind this insanity has finally been spelled out.

In the absence of the passage of the MOHO amendment this scam would allow a retiring IP having been granted a Life Membership at our expensive to retain either his right to hold office or vote depending on the scam he sets up with a trailer co owner.

Sorry ex IPs I am against either of these scams to retain your membership. You want to walk away to an SOB do it with you head high and let us have fond memories of you. We are surrounded with enough people gaming the systems for their gains. Lets keep at least one thing pure.

[HowieE]

You know I find it very interesting that the WBCCI is willing to stretch the conditions of the Federal Law governing equal rights to all and then come up with a scam that to circumvent One Man One Vote. These guys have missed their calling.

On one hand they expel a member and extend that expulsion to the members spouse. I am not aware of any other point of law that extends the punishment to a spouse. Even when G Gordan Litty was convected he was allowed to transfer ownership of his gun collection to his wife and retain them in their common home.

Now they have devised a scheme where co ownership allows individuals to redefine ownership of property and the rights that follow ownership. Will there be a limit as to how many members can own a single Airstream? With one owner retaining the right to vote, one retaining the right to hold office and several other to have the right to attend rallies. This looks like something the open boarders folks might want to consider, 10 people on the same drivers license all living under a common roof.

[Protagonist]

Trying to come up with just the right words to express my disgust and dismay over such chicanery is making my brain hurt. Oh, got it now…

WBCCI gets by just fine these days without Wally Byam his own self, so there is literally no one so indispensable to the organization that the rules have to be bent beyond recognition just for him.

Please, get a clue; life membership is not for the rest of your life, it's for the life of your Airstream ownership. Maybe someone (or a lot of us concurrently) ought to propose an amendment that clarifies that point…

[wheel interested]

There are high stakes and a mighty collective brain power in effect working to guarantee one or some a lot in WBCCI. The one I can think of that wanted more for more members and less for nine or so was easily culled out after several creative measures, until one finally culminated in his expulsion on very flimsy standing. Collective bargaining through delegates meetings and member forums seem to be precariously threatened and due diligence should be exercised.

[dwightdi]

The Constitution has always allowed only one vote per trailer. If it was a conventional married couple or not, or a co-owner exists, there is only one vote allowed. Jerry would have to agree with his co-owner on how that vote would be cast. In my conversation with Norm, he said that only two co-owners would be allowed per trailer. Since Jackson Center does not require a copy of the current title to be provided, all that is needed is a letter stating co-ownership has been established to get the "work around" accepted. It is not likely that the Thor Motorhome amendment can get 2/3 of the members to accept it, but the "Collin's Work around" will still an option for all former Airstream Motorhome owners who want to remain semi-active in the club.

[eubank]

So with the Collins workaround, these folks will still need to locate a WBCCI member who would be willing to co-own with them. No easy task!

But we've always said, go ahead and buy an SOB, but you'll still have to (co-)own an Airstream in order to be a member under the current constitution.


Lynn

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by eubank

So with the Collins workaround, these folks will still need to locate a WBCCI member who would be willing to co-own with them. No easy task!

But we've always said, go ahead and buy an SOB, but you'll still have to (co-)own an Airstream in order to be a member under the current constitution.


Lynn

As long as they don't try to put their big red numbers on the SOB as if it was an Airstream!

[azflycaster]

If a member were to choose this method, they would still not be able to attend club rallies. They could go to a unit luncheon, but that would be the limit of their activity.

[HowieE]

Originally Posted by dwightdi

The Constitution has always allowed only one vote per trailer. If it was a conventional married couple or not, or a co-owner exists, there is only one vote allowed. Jerry would have to agree with his co-owner on how that vote would be cast. In my conversation with Norm, he said that only two co-owners would be allowed per trailer. Since Jackson Center does not require a copy of the current title to be provided, all that is needed is a letter stating co-ownership has been established to get the "work around" accepted. It is not likely that the Thor Motorhome amendment can get 2/3 of the members to accept it, but the "Collin's Work around" will still an option for all former Airstream Motorhome owners who want to remain semi-active in the club.

My comment were not questioning the number of votes per trailer but rather the fact that we would now consider one vote per two co owners. Given Norms assurance that that number would not be extended to 3 or 4 co owners is little comfort, but rather just an indication of how far they will bend the rules at this time.

As for the point of marriage. The IBT revised the definition 2 years ago to be politically correct by current standards. However having defined marriage they are willing to also becoming a lot looser in defining ownership. I am left with this question. It is proposed that I can own an Airstream with anyone and retain membership. But my spouse, can not retain membership after my expulsion. Now let me ask, can ones son have reached majority and still living at home own an Airstream and membership or would he and other family members included in ones expulsion?

I can see a Bambi parked behind Jackson Center with a dozen co owners holding a majority of the higher offices of the Club while riding around the country in SOB spending my money.

At some point we have to step back and look at the bigger picture and just what the application of diametrically apposed standards is about. Give a little lose a lot.

[Pahaska]

Originally Posted by eubank

So with the Collins workaround, these folks will still need to locate a WBCCI member who would be willing to co-own with them. No easy task!

All they would need would be find a junk Airstream to obtain a valid serial number. It could be a number off a total in a junkyard somewhere.

Someone who never set foot in an Airstream or towed an Airstream could obtain a serial number in this manner, take out a life membership, and appear with a SOB with all privileges of the club (including voting, which some 600 MALs can not do).

[eubank]

Richard seems to think otherwise on some of this; see his post above.

Lynn

Originally Posted by Pahaska

All they would need would be find a junk Airstream to obtain a valid serial number. It could be a number off a total in a junkyard somewhere.

Someone who never set foot in an Airstream or towed an Airstream could obtain a serial number in this manner, take out a life membership, and appear with a SOB with all privileges of the club (including voting, which some 600 MALs can not do).

[JStanley]

Is it gaming the system, poor management or is........
“…something is rotten in the state of Denmark.”
A line spoken by Marcellus in Shakespeare's Hamlet, Act I

“Something is not right, rife with errors from top to bottom, leading to suspicion of motive. If the administration knew about the problems and chose not to prevent them, then clearly something is rotten in the state of Denmark.”

[eubank]

Oh, I'm not going to kick and scream about the Collins maneuver. Sure, it's exploiting a loophole in the current constitution. But how many of these people are really going to go to this length if all they can do in return is to attend luncheons?

Lynn