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Old 10-03-2011, 07:17 AM   #581
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....all I have to say about those statistics is, that's Bullshit!
What statistics are you talking about?
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Old 10-03-2011, 07:58 AM   #582
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It’s all about time, money and effort of which much of all three has been wasted here a Unit and Region levels in the fight to keep other MOHO products from being part of the club.

I for one am just a guilty as many here for fighting this issue during the International Rally in Perry, GA many years back, writing to the IBT/EC7, etc… however did not send money into the great “Defend Wally” (what a joke, smelled a rat there and there was).

So, if you take all the time that many have spent fighting the MOHO issue along with all the money people got suckered out of with the “Defend Wally” crap, combined with the effort given by many folks that are still here and even more that has left the club, if you took all of that, you could have created one hell of a club, a bunch of terrific rallies and a few great caravans. Plus you will find a far more “positive” life!

Sorry to say, tired of fighting this stupid fight. It’s more important to have positive things in life than negative and would rather spend the time, money and effort having fun in my Airstreams with my family instead of being in an adversarial relationship with a club that does not really want my input anyway.

“The horse is dead, it’s time to dismount”

Let them have their MOHO issue and go have fun in your Airstream Trailers and Classic MOHO’s.

Let’s include other MOHO's get it over with and start learning to live with it.

Let the flames begin!
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Old 10-03-2011, 08:41 AM   #583
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In his first BB president's message, our new president says there has been too much descent for too many years and it is time for only "good" thoughts to be heard. Now he will be the champion for SOB motorhomes amendment and a new Constitution that will take any remaining power from the units and members by making the Delegates' meeting a non-entity with no voting power or oversight of the constitution and Bylaws. We can only hope the Denco Amendment gets approved before his and his SOB motorhome friends get complete and absolute power over everything. He hopes that the few (6,000 out of 25,000) remaining members will obey him by his edict and stop grumbling. Well, he has complete control of the BB, so you will only hear "good" thoughts and words there.
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:25 AM   #584
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I assume from your comment that you have not read the Revised Constitution. Yes the Delegates meeting would be removed. This is in part because fewer and fewer units are sending Delegates to the International.

That power would be directly given to the membership as per Article 18 section 8 as follows.

Sec.8 After the Annual Members’ Caucus, Headquarters will prepare a ballot including the originators’ final proposed amendment and the final report of the Constitution and Bylaws Committee. This ballot will be distributed to the members for their direct vote by mail or authorized electronic means. The members will return their completed ballot to Headquarters by the date indicated on the ballot.
Yes the Delegate presence at the International seamed to have some image of membership representation at the International. But if you have been following the success of anyone attempting to bring forth change, with the exception of delaying the original MH issue, through that avenue in the past 5 years you will surely recognize that method has been nothing but a series of failures. Nominations from the floor, killed. Individuals ridiculed for questioning Leaderships action. Senseless time limits on the discussions of important topics.

Time, costs, and personnel commitments have produced ever decreasing attendance at the International and another means has to be brought forth if the membership hopes to have any say in the direction of the Club.

Now as for the current status of both the Denver amendment and the Revised Constitution. The Denver Amendment is working its way through the system. However far too many units are not taking it seriously and many will not even vote on it unless the membership demands it. Individuals in each unit have to keep the pressure on their President to give this issue time during their business meeting.

As for the Revised Constitution and those all important Bylaws both have been submitted to the IBT. The IP has said he would present the Bylaws to the membership but it is now becoming clearer that he will not unless frequently questioned on this issue. Write him and ask.

One of these efforts has to pass if there is any hope for the Club.

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Old 10-03-2011, 10:44 AM   #585
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My Thoughts

I've been lurking on this and the other threads related to this issue for sometime now, and I'm a little troubled by the "let them buy used" attitude we seem to have. That may be an acceptable solution for now, but will fail eventually.

First, full disclosure: I joined the WBCCI in the spring of 2007 after purchasing our first Airstream, our 23' Safari, a few months before. I stood shoulder-to-shoulder with everyone at Perry, GA in 2007 to defeat the motion there. As the FL Unit's delegate to the 2008 Region 3 rally in Raleigh, NC I voted to defeat the motion coming forward from a south Florida unit on this same subject.

Over the years however, I have met some dear, sweet people in the WBCCI who are driving motorhomes and towing trailers (and some no so sweet ones too). I'm troubled by the fact that if these older motorhome drivers were forced to replace their coaches due to an accident or something else that rendered their present coach unusable, they may not be able to find another motorhome with the Airstream brand on it, and we would loose them to the WBCCI.

Now lets talk about the trailer drivers. We are all getting older and so are any available used Airstream motorhomes. It's a proven fact that RVing in a motorhome is easier than pulling a trailer. Witness the letter to the editor in the October Blue Beret from our Int'l 3rd VP. He can't do a trailer any longer. I do have a 92 year old widower in my Unit who still pulls a trailer and attends many of the Unit's rallies. I hope to be like him someday, but reality says that eventually (hopefully years from now) I may not be able to do all that is required to go trailering anymore. And, years from now that pool of good used Airstream motorhomes may be nearly dried up.

I have made many good friends by owning an Airstream and my active membership in the WBCCI and my local Unit, attending rallies and going on caravans. It would sadden me greatly to not be able to see them, or participate in these activities again.

So what's the solution here. Certainly it's not to let in any brand of motorhome for any reason. The price of admission is still owning and using an Airstream. Ten years or so from now, when there aren't any used Airstream motorhomes available, unless maybe your a skilled vintage buff, what are we to do when someone has to stop trailering?

My proposal would be for those who have been members in good standing for a TBD number of years, let them purchase a motorhome, any brand, even a Class-C if they want. The stipulation would be that they give up any club office they hold (officer, committee chair, etc.) to remain members of the WBCCI. That last part, I think, has been the sticking point in all these discussions.

For what it's worth,

Randy
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:04 AM   #586
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Randy

Age and availability are problems in many origination. If you turn 36 years old you are no longer a member of the JCs, an origination that you may have made many good friends with. If you turn 18 you can no longer be treated at Children's Hospital, a hospital that in many cases has saved a child's life. If you no longer own a Corvette you are no longer in the Corvette club. If you have reached mandatory retirement age you are no longer CEO of many Corporations.

There are an infinite number of reason why people have to give up their relationship with different origination. Usually these reasons are to maintain the integrate, direction, or focus of the origination.

If MH owners would be allowed to go off brand why then shouldn't I be allowed to bring my 10 ft. Apache pop top trailer out of retirement and remain in the WBCCI. It is a lot easier to handle than my 34 and I to am aging.
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:50 AM   #587
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fun sucking wind blowing cold over the land these days...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCabin View Post
...I'm a little troubled by the "let them buy used" attitude we seem to have. That may be an acceptable solution for now, but will fail eventually.

Randy
It really isn't any different than if Airstream stopped making Airstream trailers. Would there be an end to the Airstream club and then any brand of trailer would be allowed in, and into what? surely it wouldn't be an Airstream club any more at that point. Just as it will not be at this point if SOBs are accepted now. An Airstream club is for Airstreams and nothing is plainer or simpler than that. When you don't have an Airstream then you don't stay in a club for Airstreams. You may even start another club with your old friends but you certainly don't scuttle the original club because now you personally don't happen to have an Airstream any more. And that is done to bare claim to perks and privilege instead of graciously leaving. You don't have to be Solomon with all his wisdom to understand that killing the club and dividing it rather than relinquishing control, has been selfish and ethically wrong. The club is for those that own Airstreams. KISS IMHO

However after being a member since 2003, owning 4 new and 2 previously loved Airstreams, I will not be renewing my membership. Paul, Rideair makes sense. We have our Airstreams to enjoy and the leadership has their friends and control of the club to enjoy. Time to part ways, just as my peers have done before me. I have the Wally history as much as any other Airstream owner can lay claim upon. The WBCCI is not about Airstreams anymore we have been told it's only a machine just a bucket of bolts, but the WBCCI is all about friends, theirs. Well so be it. I am definitely not in the loop, not even a real Airstreamer I've been told. It's tough breaking in. But now I only ask myself, "and why would I even want to?"
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:57 AM   #588
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Randy,

I Think the idea of a compromise with no offices and no voting has been brought up before and not been recieved well by the MoHo crowd. They are not as a group willing to give up their power.
As long as Members at Large can not vote or hold office it is not even in the realm of possibility to consider allowing other MoHo in the club with voting rights.
I could possibly support your suggestion if it only applied to present motorhome owners, no vote, no office, because if it is the social aspects of the club that are of interest then they should not have a problem with it.
There are still buddy rallies etc as a means for them to join us also.

I have belonged to the WBCCI since 73 and fully accept the fact that if I change brands or age out that I am am out of the club.
I also accept that I will not be able to join the Shasta owners club by putting little wings on my Airstreamtrailer.
Basically I believe are an Airstream club first and then a social organization,not the other way around.
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:42 PM   #589
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Just one more thing that I just have got to say...

Who is it that has such good friends that they cannot bear to lose them after all the years but not good enough friends apparently to see them any more if they don't belong to the same club together? H e l l o o ?
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Old 10-03-2011, 01:13 PM   #590
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~~

My proposal would be for those who have been members in good standing for a TBD number of years, let them purchase a motorhome, any brand, even a Class-C if they want. The stipulation would be that they give up any club office they hold (officer, committee chair, etc.) to remain members of the WBCCI. That last part, I think, has been the sticking point in all these discussions.

For what it's worth,

Randy
As it's been said, others have proposed this. I replied to the Letter to the Editor in the Blue Beret with essentially what you proposed, and pointed out that Members at Large who travel in Airstream products aren't allowed to vote or hold office, so established members who no longer have an Airstream (Member Emeritus status, perhaps?) shouldn't be able to hold office or vote either, but would be welcome to participate in all other aspects of the club. If it's truly about wanting/needing a motorhome and still wishing to enjoy that camaraderie and activities of the club, that should be an acceptable solution.

I suspect it's not, and I'll bet you a nice bottle of whiskey you won't see my letter or any other expressing a similar sentiment in next month's Letters.
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:15 PM   #591
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My proposal would be for those who have been members in good standing for a TBD number of years, let them purchase a motorhome, any brand, even a Class-C if they want. The stipulation would be that they give up any club office they hold (officer, committee chair, etc.) to remain members of the WBCCI. That last part, I think, has been the sticking point in all these discussions.
Don't forget that your position was anticipated by the Motor Home Study Committee in its report to the 2011 Summer IBT:

"It was also suggested that if Thor motor homes were allowed in the club, the owners could not hold office in WBCCI, and, in fact, they could only be affiliate members. The majority of this committee's members judged that to be extremely biased and prejudicial."

So there you have it, all you extremely biased and prejudicial malcontents.

Of course, "the majority of this committee's members" own motor homes.

They might have said "The majority of this committee's members judged that position to be extremely judgmental" but then the irony of that sentence would have been too obvious. . .

And let's not forget a secondary objective of all this is to "emphasize the quality of the membership over quantity" as eloquently stated by an outspoken past international president some years ago. (Such as, for example, by ridding the club of dissident trailer trash?)

Ah, well, it is of little consequence. The club is going where it's going. Whether or not it decides to throw open the floodgates to other brands will affect the timing, but not the outcome.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:20 AM   #592
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Just one more thing that I just have got to say...

Who is it that has such good friends that they cannot bear to lose them after all the years but not good enough friends apparently to see them any more if they don't belong to the same club together? H e l l o o ?
Some good friends live thousands of miles away and in these days of high gas prices, attending a special event rally or caravanning together facilitates getting back together in person. Facebook can only do so much.

Randy
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:52 AM   #593
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Good, get together with your good friends at a private rally you hold for yourselves or attend an FMCA Rally that most of the other Motorhome people also belong to. I have been taking pictures at the WBCCI Rallies and most motorhomes also have a FMCA plaque on them.
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:38 AM   #594
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Sure is a lot off hassle over 470 or so MoHo owners, most of whom probably don't need a new or even want a new coach.
That was pretty well established when Larry Huttle could not get any firm purchase commitments

I suspect if Thor was allowed in the loss of members would far exceed the number of members retained .
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:55 AM   #595
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Sure is a lot off hassle over 470 or so MoHo owners, most of whom probably don't need a new or even want a new coach.
The actual number who possibly would be retained you could probably count on your fingers. Unfortunately, they have the propaganda machine working full time.

It is a simple case of slideout envy. Joe Blow across the street has four slides and I only have one. Boo hoo!

I intend to do my part to insure that the loss exceeds the gain.
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:29 AM   #596
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Even the Front cover of the BB this month features only "FRIEND". It is hard to see any Airstreams. Maybe the "friends" should just show the SOB motorhomes that they want to buy.
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Old 10-04-2011, 10:29 AM   #597
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It is unfortunate that our focus is on a diminishingly small group of potentially retained members. Our energies are better spent looking at potential NEW members. There are a lot of Airstream owners who enjoy the product and fellowship with other owners of the product. Airstream knows who they are and how to provide value to them. They aren't looking in the same direction as the WBCCI.

AirForums Rallies, TAC Rallies, and Alumapalooza Rallies are great models for US to study.

If we want to provide a non-voting / non- office holding membership for current Lifetime Members who "must have a Motorhome that is new" that shouldn't detract from our mission.

We need to provide opportunities for people who own Airstreams to have Fun, Fellowship, and Adventure. Our caravan, rally, and activity planning should focus on the things these other (current non-members) Airstream owners enjoy doing together!

I haven't seen any energy in this direction at the International level since Perry.

My thoughts.
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Old 10-04-2011, 11:03 AM   #598
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It would seem that we are getting a reasonable number of new members each year. There is a retention problem, but it is not solved by keeping a few MoHo folks who want a new one, or convincing surviving spouses to keep up their membership even though they no longer trailer.

The answer lies in having enough interesting things going on to make the members, new or old, interested in sticking around.
As mentioned above, a look at some of the the non WBCCI airstream rallies could be educational.
I wonder how many of the new members that signed up for what might be the most expensive RV club are around a couple years later.
If the members needs are met the retention problem goes away and the members become a far more affective recruiter system than the committee we funded with $15K..
I figure with International, unit, and 2 intraclubs my dues come to $107 per year. That is fairly pricey and as such is up for evaluation each year
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Old 10-04-2011, 11:55 AM   #599
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With our unit activities, Florida State, the International ... We find the value worth the cost.

We both work. We can't go on a "real caravan" because we haven't enough vacation. We have led 3 shorter Unit caravans and they were fun. We had other working folks (and kids) on two of those shorter caravans.


We would love to go to an event or destination rally. We loved the Yellowstone Rally in 06!

Add value and members will stay.
More value
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Old 10-05-2011, 11:57 AM   #600
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Sent this reply/letter to editor to the Blue Beret today.. Doubt it will ever get published, so thought I'd share it here...

For two months we’ve seen letters here rehashing issue of Thor Motorhomes and membership. We should all remember this was a Trailer club started by the man who wrote “Trailer Travel” after a long career designing, building and traveling in trailers. I think more members would have been willing to “grandfather” (pun intended..) long-term members like Mr. Stumpf who could no longer manage his Airstream trailer, and allow them to continue to participate in rallies and caravans. I would gladly vote to let any 30+ year member continue their membership (but not in a national leadership role…) in ANY brand of RV, simply because they have established a number of great friendships. What I am unwilling to do is welcome an owner of a Thor Motorhome into the club as a new member simply because of the common ownership between Airstream and other motorhome manufacturers. Unfortunately, our Leaders didn’t present that option to vote on.

(I am a WBCCI member...)
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