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Old 09-18-2003, 08:43 AM   #21
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Re: WBCCI

Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Brawner

I think that the people who complain about the organization the most are also the ones who would complain about any one they belonged to.
Have fun, be happy.
Dan
WBCCI #5927
I have to bitterly disagree here Dan. You cannot assume that your experiance means that it is that way all around the country in every local unit. There are a bunch of problems in the local units and possilbly even higher up....

If I took the logic from your quote above, we'd all have no reason to gripe about the current quality of what is coming out of Jackson Center. These are real complaints and as such cannot and should not be dismissed. Afterall we are not censoring anyones comments good, bad or otherwise.

Glad your unit works for you....

Regards,

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Old 09-18-2003, 09:23 AM   #22
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Criticism vs analysis

The verb criticize, once neutral between praise and censure, is now mainly used in a negative sense. There is no exact synonym, but in most contexts one can usually substitute go over, review, or analyze. -- This was paraphrased from the dictionary.

Analyzing and recognizing problems in an organization shouldn't automatically be viewed in the negative sense of being unjust or unwarranted criticism. In order to make improvements problems must be recognized and acknowledged before they can be rectified. Labeling members of an organization as complainers because they recognize a problem simply shuts down the process. It tells them they should go elsewhere if they don't like it, and all too often they do. Eventually, this works to the detriment of the organization. Don't label people as being negative simply because they want change -- change can be good and positive.
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Old 09-18-2003, 10:03 AM   #23
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WBCCI Membership

Over the past few days, I have read about potential members not being able to find a Unit to suit them. I have been a member of the WBCCI for 34 years. I am 64 years old. I have brought into the WBCCI probably more members and retained them than most, I am member of the Founders Club to prove it, so maybe I know something. 1st being a member of a Unit usually cost less then being a Member at Large, plus you get a newsletter from your area plus the Blue Beret. 2nd, it is impossible for a Unit to tailor their functions to fit everyone's needs. My Unit has probably more 4, 5 and 6 day rallies then most, but we include the weekend into those rallies to suit everyone. If you do not like the way a Unit runs their rally, join and change it, I did. You will never change anything by not joining and just complaining about it. Go to your state rally, talk to other Units, You are not alone and your voice will eventually be heard. Remember, we have been around a long time and with the younger generation we will continue to stick around. Don't bash us, don't complain, help us. You can contact me personally from the Florida Unit Web page http://hometown.aol.com/fc23343/dule.INDEX.HTM
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Old 09-18-2003, 10:50 AM   #24
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Our first year free membership is about to run out. We will not be renewing. The Southern AZ unit was dissolved....we were not interested in luncheons anyway.

The BLUE BERET does not interest us; very few caravans begin near us.

The red numbers could be a problem later for the next owner so I guess I shall return them to WBCCI.
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Old 09-18-2003, 11:56 AM   #25
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Thumbs up Re: Criticism vs analysis

Totally agree Forrest.


Eric
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Old 09-18-2003, 11:58 AM   #26
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Couple of things:

1. When I bought my Airstream from Great American RV - never was a mention made of the local Unit or the WBCCI period. Problem ID: Unit Branding. Some free campground package given away with each purchase - had a call within a week from them. Did they insist on joining - no - they asked me what I was expecting and enjoy from my camping experience to start off the conversation - the hook. Then 10 minutes later - just let us know when you would like to stay for a free weekend - we will call and follow up in a few months. Why aren't more units actually working with dealers to at least promote their units? Is it that much time involved?

2. Most of the Unit websites lack any kind of information and are difficult to find. I had to call to get the website address for one of the chapters in my neck of the woods. If you go to the main WBCCI website - all you usually get for 95% of all contact information is a name and phone number.

3. WBCCI website has no real forum to discuss issues and and gather real feedback from its membership base. I have noticed a few local chapters in the forums elsewhere involved - but why can't we as a whole work to get something in place? Better yet how can mobilize forums such as this to work with WBCCI and units to give them tools they need? With all the varying talent that we all have - while we may elect to stay outside of the clubs - we can still be part of the solution...

4. Why isn't Airstream / Thor - more active with these groups? Here would be a fairly cool idea is to have Thor/Airstream work with dealers and and local units - sponsor a low cost outting with activities that are geared around even just the median age - plop a new trailer - for show and tale... etc...from a pure marketing perspective there are alot of people like me who start vintage - to try - and then buy new. From that perspective it would be nice to see local units and everyone just work together....

5. What kind of communication is going on between units and the top level WBCCI to begin with? Seems to me, not very much?


Just some crazy thoughts
And I have no clue what I am talking about before anyone takes offense
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Old 09-18-2003, 12:06 PM   #27
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Frank,

I apprec your comments, thoughts on the subject. I can see from your post that you have had vast exp with WBCCI.

The bottom line for me is that I love Airstreams, I love the folks who own Airstreams, they are a tight knit community. My issue is simply that I don't currently have the kind of time to invest to "eventually" be heard. To me, there are far more productive uses of the small level of spare time that I have....

There is no arguement of the fact that you can't be everything to everyone. To me, that seems pretty obvious. Your group might be different than some of the other groups out there. I can say this, I am that younger generation you are talking about. In my travels, there are many of us who simply just love to camp. WBCCI to me seems a bit dated (not all but the ones I have seen, specifically the one around the Chicago area). Chapters are closing and it can be looked at several different ways. I am not really suggesting I know all the answers here, but it seems clear that there is work to be done and who knows, maybe I'll eventually have the time to try to spin my wheels a bit and have a crack at changing it. I fear though, but the time that I do, more chapters will have fallen to the sidelines as a number have already.

I think Forrest said it best on another thread:

Criticism vs analysis

The verb criticize, once neutral between praise and censure, is now mainly used in a negative sense. There is no exact synonym, but in most contexts one can usually substitute go over, review, or analyze. -- This was paraphrased from the dictionary.

"Analyzing and recognizing problems in an organization shouldn't automatically be viewed in the negative sense of being unjust or unwarranted criticism. In order to make improvements problems must be recognized and acknowledged before they can be rectified. Labeling members of an organization as complainers because they recognize a problem simply shuts down the process. It tells them they should go elsewhere if they don't like it, and all too often they do. Eventually, this works to the detriment of the organization. Don't label people as being negative simply because they want change -- change can be good and positive."

Regards,

Eric
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Old 09-18-2003, 01:18 PM   #28
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Unhappy

Quote:
Go to your state rally, talk to other Units, You are not alone and your voice will eventually be heard. Remember, we have been around a long time and with the younger generation we will continue to stick around. Don't bash us, don't complain, help us.
Frank -
that is you and that's your situation in Florida. It is not so for everyone else.

Where we are for example WE ARE ALONE. The 2 units we contacted, we were the youngest by 30 years!!! We have wonderful relations with people older than us and enjoy their company but unfortunately don't share the same ideas of fun when we're off work!

Spending the day at the museum, touring Victorian houses, crochet, dominos etc. is OK for some but we much prefer: hiking, kayaking, swimming, skiing, scuba diving etc.

All we're trying to do is find other AS members with whom we can share a fun couple of days. A local unit NEAR us would be ideal but unfortunately most unit members we spoke too are not as physically active.
No offense to anybody, just the way it is.

...and as Eric said "we don't have the time to change the WBCCI".

This said we will remain members and go to rallies. Hopefully we'll find our spot in the WBCCI.

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions on which unit to join, just wished they were closer.
If there is any of you out there with our same problem and ideas of fun, let's talk!
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Old 09-18-2003, 03:05 PM   #29
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Quote:
This said we will remain members and go to rallies. Hopefully we'll find our spot in the WBCCI.
Don't _find_ it -- _make_ it!

If the people in the local unit have some different interests than you they should still support and encourage yours. Plan your own rally with a focus on something you like to do and get the Unit to lend support. (Keep it simple and flexible with as little structure as possible)

Some of those folks may not be as active as you but they can sit back, watch you take at it, and dream of days when they were younger. You might also attract some others with your interests, too. And everyone can profit if they give it the chance.

But to attract others, you have to publicize your activities. Does your unit let all of the local newspapers know about your outings? Do you keep an eye open for people with airstreams in your community to let them know about what you are doing and invite them to participate?

At the very least, when you take off for one of your outings, let others know what you plan. You just might make that outing a more enjoyable adventure. And you can't lose by asking!

Some much to gain and all it takes is an invitation.
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Old 09-18-2003, 06:15 PM   #30
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I find this discussion fascinating.

The WBCCI advocates keep repeating, "Join the organization, help us change it into something you'd want to join." I've also heard, "We need younger members." But isn't that really self-serving?

KIMILI hit the nail on the head. I'm sympathetic that WBCCI is declining in membership and needs new blood, but on the other hand, I'm too busy kayaking and scuba diving to worry about it. To put it bluntly, it ain't my problem. That's why I and many other under-50's just don't bother joining.

Don't ask us to fix your organization for you. If you want us as members, make it attractive to us. Otherwise, quit worrying about it and just enjoy the club you have. If you're having fun, why worry about people like me who don't share your interests?

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Old 09-18-2003, 06:59 PM   #31
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The wind of change starts here...

Why do you want to reel me in?
I am a Member at Large and proud of it.
Don't ruin my visit to your units gathering by 'pestering' me over and over again to join your unit.
Have some respect for my choice!
I am one of you in spirit of the WBCCI, but you look upon me as an outcast, like a lost soul without a home.
Don't point at my Member at Large plaque again and say: WE NEED TO CHANGE THAT.
Treat a member at large like a dear friend visiting and make him feel welcome, instead of instilling guilt and discomfort.
Have you read the Code of Ethics lately?

"To be ever mindful of what we say or print with respect to the affect on others so as to avoid disharmony and ill feelings among club members...."

I am a club member!
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Old 09-18-2003, 07:01 PM   #32
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This post interests me as a future owner I believe in supporting what I own or have an interest in, That is why I belong to the differant forums, everything from this one to the Crown Vic.net to the Ford Focus, and Fordtruckworld.
I have gotten together with other from the differant forums I belong to, and had an enjoyable time. When I get my A/S I want to join the WBCCI and attend some events. when I find a local chapter, be it in Wyo or Col, If I enjoy the time and the comaradery I will join the local group. If I get a cold shoulder I won't plan and simple. Me and my family will enjoy our A/S on our own.
I unlike others do not judge people before I have even met them. I can get along with anyone, wether younger, older or around the same age. age or anything else doesn't bother me, basicly coping an attitude does.
If a traditionalist come up and tries to tell me what I can and cannot do to my A/S, well not nice words may be given. But if some one offers advice eather good or bad, I will listen. especialy if given tackfully.
Just remember I will be the owner and I am the one who says what I do or don't do( with in reason for the wife )

Tim
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Old 09-18-2003, 07:04 PM   #33
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Fascinating

Why are some people "joiners" and others are "loners"?
Is there something about the RV lifestyle and culture that predisposes people to want to come together in groups?
Is there anything unique about the subset of RV'ers that own Airstreams? Is it possible that the Airstream set is "superior"? (You know what I mean, we call it pride, but some see it as snobbery).
So if Airstreamers are better than SOB owners, doesn't it follow that a group of Airstreamers would be somewhat snobbish, even among themselves?
Just my ramblings on an important topic.
-Not a member.
-I'm a loner and happy. It's a Scottish thing.
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Old 09-18-2003, 09:09 PM   #34
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Quote:
Don't ask us to fix your organization for you. If you want us as members, make it attractive to us.
Our point exactly! Thanks!
We'll give back to the group and share our fun but we can't do the job for the WBCCI. Remember we're not retired, we're still working, or better, over working!

Quote:
I am a Member at Large and proud of it.
Quote:
I am a club member!
Absolutely! The first thing other members asked us was which unit we belonged to and when we answered "none, we're members at large" it was as if we weren't members at all!
Word spread and everyone suggested/insisted on which unit we should join.
If we can't find a fun one for us we'll remain...at large!

rluhr is correct: if you want us, do something!

Let's hear some suggestions of how you, WBCCI, may get us, the new and future AS owners, attracted and involved in the club. Luncheons and bocce ball isn't alluring enough. Remember all the cool stuff Wally did?! Caravans by the pyramids in Egypt, safaris in Africa, european tours with YOUR AS not SOB as some units do now! Haven't seen anything as attractive organized since.
Did you folks lose your BYAM spirit?

Hope not! Because you hold the torch of experience and knowledge which we shall carry on. Give us a chance to learn from you in true WB style!
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Old 09-19-2003, 04:09 AM   #35
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Re: Fascinating

Quote:
Originally posted by markdoane
Why are some people "joiners" and others are "loners"?
Is there something about the RV lifestyle and culture that predisposes people to want to come together in groups?
The answers to your questions can be found by exploring two of the basic human needs: 1) of needing to give / receive attention and 2) of having a connection to something bigger than oneself. Having a connection to something bigger than oneself provides a context for a person. It gives them a reason for being, over and above their own personal needs. The obvious candidate would be religion, but can also be an idea shared with others, a club or charity work. It is anything that takes the focus off the self.

Just my Psychology 101 two cents!
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Old 09-19-2003, 04:26 AM   #36
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Something to ponder...

I sense an interesting dichotomy here.

We are members of a local unit; however we moved away from our home unit's territory, and we haven't participated in a couple of years. We still pay our dues, correspond occasionally, and enjoy our unit newsletter.

For the record, we're ALSO in the under-fifty group, working with a family. We don't always appreciate the organized activities of our unit, but the folks who belong to it are super (and most are at least 15 to 25 years older than we are; many are my parents' age). As of a couple of years ago, we were the only members of our unit with kids at home. I think there are a couple of newer families now, but we haven't had the opportunity to meet them.

I see and hear those here on the Forums saying 'give us something and we'll participate'. I see and hear the organization saying, 'we don't know what you want, but if you'll join we'll let you have a hand changing things to suit you.'

IMHO, be it politics or the WBCCI, the only way to change or improve an organization is from the inside. The odds of the organization changing from external forces is pretty slim. The most likely course is that it will be disbanded from lack of membership if all of the folks who want it to change stand on the sidelines and aren't willing to play.

I don't know what the answer is, but IF you're interested in WBCCI, caravans, and/or group activities; AND you want specific kinds of activities to occur, then it's probably up to YOU to make those things happen. Otherwise, I agree with those posts that membership is a waste of time. Just remember, though, that the folks who are active members enjoy their club, and many of them are heavily invested in time, energy and money. They want you to join, not because they're being pushy, but because they enjoy it a great deal, and expect that because they do, you will too.

No one is asking anyone to fix their 'broken' organization. It's not broken, and it's working just fine for the folks who belong. There just aren't as many any more as that generation ages. They ARE, however inviting a new generation to join and help shape the future of the organization, if that's what the new folks want. It's a volunteer organization run for the benefit of the membership (OTHER volunteers). If you choose not to join, you have no voice with the folks who HAVE joined. If you choose to join, but YOU as the volunteer MEMBERSHIP don't participate, whatever it is you want won't happen.

Roger
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Old 09-19-2003, 04:34 AM   #37
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Re: Something to ponder...

Quote:
Originally posted by 85MH325
They want you to join, not because they're being pushy, but because they enjoy it a great deal, and expect that because they do, you will too.
Yes, this is my primary reason for encouraging non-members to join.
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Old 09-19-2003, 08:07 AM   #38
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I'll second Roger.

The WBCCI and its Units are _resources_ for Airstreamers to use to improve their enjoyment of their RV experience by sharing it with others of like mind or interest - or even those who want to (or are willing to) broaden their experience.

People who encourage membership and participation should be considered not as trying to market a product or service but rather as a friend who is trying to tell you that you are missing something wonderful.

Look for the bright side - it's there if you want it to be!
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Old 09-19-2003, 09:32 AM   #39
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Well said Roger and Bryan. I would encourage everyone to check out the resources available to them through WBCCI as well as the local units. I have been a member at large for three years now and just recently discovered that a (somewhat) local unit does a lot of things I enjoy doing in the places I enjoy doing them.
I also checked out their web site and found a wealth of information from how to make good coffee while camping to information on local geology.
I think if people would check out local units (even if they are not really local) they will find a group with similar interests. Spend a weekend with them and see what you think. You have nothing to loose and you may be rewarded.
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Old 09-20-2003, 01:06 AM   #40
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Gosh, a thread near and dear to my heart and I almost missed it because I was off camping in my AS all week

I think the most important thing anyone has pointed out to me in previous discussions is that the WBCCI is a travel club, and right now (age 34 and still working), I'm not free to do much travelling.

For what it's worth, the people in our Unit (Oregon Unit) were wonderful, welcomed us with open arms, and made us feel at home. I have no complaint about the membership, I just wish there were more activities we could participate in. Unfortunately, last I heard the Unit might be dissolving into another Unit (Western Oregon). Not a good time to try to make changes.

Hey Jody, you're in my neck of the woods. I've been trying to get a hold of the WA Unit but no one's emailed me back. I was hoping they might have more weekend activities, but I'm guessing they don't if you're still hunting around. What other units were you investigating? I didn't know there were any other choices.

So I'm still looking into staying in, but bottom line: if the WBCCI is a travel club, and we aren't free to travel, then it's just not for us. No hard feelings.
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