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Old 07-17-2008, 09:32 PM   #81
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so it is 2 years later...

is there some new thinking about a worldwide, online unit?

it's still a good idea and while there are units USING the web

none of them really are virtual at the core...

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Old 07-17-2008, 10:33 PM   #82
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MALs are virtual we just haven't unified and thus don't get counted. HRUMPH!!!! It seems you only need a body in presence to be WBCCI worthy. The flesh counts one vote. Now the spirit of Airstreaming and embodiment is at issue. The placement of my skeletal system seems to be the problem as it must be attached to one geographical location which is in direct conflict with Airstreaming.

And as an aside, I still think it borders on contempt to have not counted the members votes from the East whose delegates were priced out of their votes in Bozeman. Was there something like 12 units all on the East coast that had no vote/delegate present???
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Old 07-17-2008, 10:47 PM   #83
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Yes, and it would be so easy to set up a cyber unit. I could have it running (roughly) in 30 minutes....
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Old 07-17-2008, 11:21 PM   #84
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My wife, Carol and I would be very interested. Also I bet both my kids and their spouses would too. I would like whoever is keeping a list of those interested to add my name.
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Old 07-18-2008, 11:06 AM   #85
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This is the second time I have been a member of WBCCI. I quit the first time for most of the usual reasons and am on the fence once again. Let me offer more than griping and moaning. Take it for what its worth.

Clearly, applying 1940’s organization/social networking solutions to 2008 problems is more than a little ludicrous. The penalty of not fulfilling modern needs is evidenced by having more people quitting than joining WBCCI and the upsurge of alternative groups such as this forum.

Really it is a tribute to the love generated by Airstreams great design and the cultural inertia lit by Wally B that has kept it together for as long as it has.

It would be pointless (and undermining to this thread) to itemize individual problems at this point. This club was founded in a time when land lines and telegraphs were cutting edge technology.

History comes from history.

Today’s “old guard” was trained by four generations of “old guard” before them. If you think they look like relics to you now, wait until the next generation (our children and grand children) comes on board and looks around. They simply will choose to not get involved. To pull from a parallel thread, it isn’t about people not being happy getting no cream on their berries. The fact is: there may not be a market for that type of berry anymore - cream or no cream!

I believe it is more about creating a new business model. Not for the sake of survival, survival is not a lofty goal, but to prosper and grow.

It happens every day.

I am in academia (talk about old guard!) and, as an administrator, have to adjust our department’s business model on a regular basis. If I don’t – we die.

It appears to me there is a real need (read market) for a Virtual Unit that is in touch with contemporary lifestyles. That IS the new business model.

A Virtual Unit would, in part, satisfy geographic/social/support needs already outlined by previous posts. Perhaps needed more so to demonstrate how the organization in-toto can operate in the current century.

It’s hard to argue with success.

When allied units see the success of a virtual unit, they will be able to use it as a template. They join the party, we all win. Simply a case of the tail wagging the dog — it works.

I do have two suggestions:

1. I’m not sure amending an existing unit, no matter how progressive and visionary they are, into THE “Virtual Unit” would be as effective as starting with a fresh (to WBCCI) concept and demonstrating how it can operate successfully. Being up front about your intentions would be the best policy, as least from an organizational view. Otherwise, the group will always be seen as the xyz chapter that does a lot of web communications. It will never "be" the thing but will always "be like" the thing.

2. A fresh unit, grown out of the larger organization (WBCCI) would be preferable to attempting to cobble this group (owned by a corporation) with an “old guard” nonprofit. Some short term benefits could be had but, long run, it would make for an uncomfortable marriage. Certainly both groups will work in tandem but, again, it’s best to grow the concept and reap the benefits from the inside the organization.

If folks are really interested, let’s find a way to make this work. I’ve read a library about ongoing and past problems. Really, it doesn’t matter. Let move forward. I am willing to do much of the work, governance documents, communications, and so on – no problem. I do that for a living.

Maybe we can form a working group to develop a proposal. Naive? Probably, but, that may not be a bad thing.

Interested?
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:25 PM   #86
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good post digger...

and i agree with your suggestions 1 and 2.

now, look back to communicator's posts about "10 people" and so on...

as i understand it any new units are obligated to follow the wb' policies on starting units...

yes many of the materials can be boiler-plated...

but the new units also MUST have a geographic identity, support and approval by a region president, and so on...

and there are other major conceptual roadblocks to bringing a global virtual unit to birth.

SO someone (not mals because we have no vote) and some how the machinery (rules) needs modification,

BEFORE a virtual unit can happen...

one of the underlying concepts of the current club is LOCAL UNITS...

in fact many very involved folks believe it is the cornerstone of the club, not the trailers...

go back and reread s'breeze/leippers notes on this...

leo and the wdcu folks played with this issue more to encourge mals to join a unit...

fully realizing the current rules prohibit such a unit...

so organizing and recruiting and building the documents is the easy part,

making the few, but needed rule modifications that would allow this is the major obstacle

as i understand it.

cheers
2air'
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:33 PM   #87
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For geographic identity, why not just declare "world" or "earth". With the internet, there are no real boundaries any longer. I understand what you're saying about the importance of local units, but I can see tremendous value of a cyber unit for those who, for whatever reasons, may not be able to physically travel. Through the internet, they are still able to participate via web broadcasts, blogs or podcasts.
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:43 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by cameront120 View Post
...I understand what you're saying about the importance of local units...
don't confuse the message with the messenger...

i have long favored a global or even off the planet unit...

and have posted about it several times in these older threads.

it's one of reasons i've remained a mal, which cost more that the fcu or wdcu...

a unit without boundaries, geographic or otherwise...

traveling OFF THE MAP is how new places are discovered.

and old conventions are shed.

cheers
2air'
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:48 PM   #89
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2air...do us a favor and go out to Second Life: Official site of the 3D online virtual world and start a unit there....so we could all benefit!
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:12 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by typical 1st vp response
...do us a favor...
sadly, a perfect example of how someone now on the officer tract reacts and helps...

-a belief that s/he speaks or thinks for others...
-the realization (and fear) that without a defined and confined base of members, no one will follow...
-the INability to deal primarily with the idea.

as suggested earlier the wdcu used this 'virtual unit' concept to skim and scab recruits into their unit...

those numbers have fallen this year, like all other membership groups and they are worried.

new folks joining the wb' IN unit #000 (mal) is STILL the largest group of new members...

giving those folks a REAL OPTION to join a new virtual unit, would be a success.

and this IS a threat to many current units and basic club tenets.

cheers
2air'
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:33 PM   #91
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Perfect example.... what are you talking about......I sense negativity and that is not what I was meaning...I am serious... 2nd life is the Virtual world...I've been toying with the idea myself ..it's a 3d world...and virtual..without limitations...and the possibilities are endless... I've also been toying with a 2nd life Airstream company.... and if I do that, I will need the club too...it's beyond the earth. I wonder if the citizens in 2nd life take vacations...we could make millions...the only problem is that I am not a software coder...Rob
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Old 07-18-2008, 05:23 PM   #92
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A Virtual world

If you haven't checked out Second Life: Official site of the 3D online virtual world you should.. I think they are on to something and it's possible the Virtual / Cyper unit could benefit from what they have already solved over there... Some people (and I guess I could have worded my post better (I was traveling and on my TREO so I kept it short on purpose)) need to think before they post.. a public apology 2Air please, as I take offense to your "Perfect example" statement you made!!! A virtual unit needs a virtual place to meet, hold meetings, etc... (email does not cut it!!!!).. read below and see what I am talking about... I'm thinking outside of this current world.... and the exploration could be fun as well.. .just don't get lost in the "other" world.

Second Life Grid is your virtual world solution for:Increased Productivity

Many organizations are using the Second Life Grid today to enhance their productivity by focusing on internal business uses such as training and simulation. Others engage with their customers through interviews, recruiting, and product research. You can reduce travel costs and downtime by substituting use of the Second Life Grid for real world events and meetings. Prototypes can be created quickly and inexpensively.
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Effective Collaboration

The Second Life Grid enables participants in different environments and locations to collaborate in real time in 3D space. You can walk through a new piece of equipment, engage with a scripted training simulation, or cooperatively design a new workspace.
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Improved Communication

The Second Life Grid provides multiple channels of communication, including images, audio, video, text and voice, with both groups and individuals. The platform supports multiple languages, and real-time text chat translators are available. Educators are using the Second Life Grid as a platform of choice for a range of distance learning options from entire virtual campuses, to classes, office hours, meetings and presentations. A visible indicator of speech and spatial 3D-voice makes it easy to identify the speaker from among those present.
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Enhanced Engagement with your Customers or Audience

Second Life Grid enables a unique, two-way opportunity for direct engagement with your customers or audience. Unlike most traditional Web sites, this virtual world platform encourages high engagement times with participants. Many organizations have taken advantage of this 3D interaction space and high engagement times for focus groups, customer research and feedback, recruiting and interviews, and other practices.
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Reduced Business Costs

Save expensive travel and business costs through the use of the Second Life Grid. This virtual world solution enables your organization to establish a private or public centralized 3D meeting space where participants can communicate, collaborate and present using voice and text in real-time. Meet with global partners at your own branded virtual headquarters. Walk a product team through a prototype to find design problems before committing to real-world construction. Participants from around the world can connect together daily for a fraction the cost of video conferencing solutions or airline tickets.
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Old 07-18-2008, 06:21 PM   #93
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I love this virtual idea. I wouldn't need to buy a real Airstream as I would only need a virtual Airstream - wouldn't cost me real dollars. We could talk around the campfire without leaving the comfort of our keyboards.

Sorry - I got to go as I'm leaving to spend the weekend in my real Airstream and I will be enjoying real people.

Enjoy the weekend all whatever you do.
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Old 07-18-2008, 09:28 PM   #94
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Do I get to pick any body type I want in virtual reality? (Anyone have any chocolate, btw?) I would probably like a copy of the composite unit picture. My we're a fine looking bunch.

Seriously there is a mighty tight bottleneck and grip at the top of the WBCCI. Logic, change and intent are choked out by Robert's Rules and the IBT's interpretation of it. Ideas may have to be sealed until the next century for the protection of all and it's not for lack of members' efforts. But I see stonewalling and obstruction from our leaders.
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Old 07-19-2008, 11:36 AM   #95
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Old 07-19-2008, 03:38 PM   #96
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Oh I must be aging... I'm feeling like I'm about 90 years old with zero computer skills trying to grasp this cyberspace stuff.

Can somebody definitively explain to me:

A) What a virtual unit would be? (I envision campers all by themselves in the middle of the woods tending to their own fires with a laptop and a webcam off in the distance showing their grand view. Yet the laptop and webcam are so far away, they can't see anybody else's grand view).

B) How the experience would be any different than belonging to any existing unit that currently uses the Internet to conduct all of their business and all unit communications? (newsletters, group mailing lists, forums, voting, correspondence).

C) How a virtual unit would be ANY different than belonging to any of the ~137 currently existing WBCCI units, and still being able to log on here (and elsewhere) and communicate with your long distance friends that are MALs or members of other units.

You're right -- at this point, I simply don't get it. Anyone have a pro and cons list? How about a list of activities that this virtual unit would hold and run?

In my head, this is no better an idea than playing online poker and typing your needs and responses. "I'll take two please," "Pass," "Raise you 20." Not very social now is it? Would there be virtual fires somewhere?

I'm just trying to discern if what's really needed here is a virtual unit (members only forum?), or do some members just need more and better activities from existing/new units locally? Does the latter replace the need for the former?

I am NOT being a wise guy here -- trying to get a grasp on this -- because in my head, it could never work for me...

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Leo,

I quite agree. Why a virtual unit of the real WBCCI (which levies on units such un-virtual requirements as a couple of real rallies a year) when you could just as easily start your own virtual WBCCI and take your own virtual Airstream to virtual rallies? Heck, in your virtual WBCCI you can make the IBT wear tutus to the installation ceremony for all I care.

[Virtual travel is a tempting idea, actually, as we are in Minnesota at the moment and the mosquitoes are terrible this year.]

But like you, I don't see the point. I'll take our real Airstream to real rallies and sit around under the awning and shoot the breeze with other real Airstreamers.

See you down the (real) road,
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Old 07-20-2008, 06:54 PM   #97
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Maybe Not Quite That Virtual

I need a better word/phrase than Virtual or Cyber. I see now that some people think a virtual unit would be entirely in our imagination without any real Airstreams.

This was not my intention. It may satisfy others but I certainly expected a virtual unit to be a real unit consisting of real people and real Airstreams. Poor choice of words on my part but a virtual unit means to me that all business is handled via the internet. Meetings are streamed to all members who care to watch, all voting is done via the internet, and sub-groups of the unit may appear, become active and dissolve all within the confines of something similar to airforums.

WBCCI provided the flexibility for persons to join over the web (don't fill out a form and send in a check but sign up entirely on line with Pay Pal or something similar), participate over the web, and make friends over the web, etc. I think we would be surprised about how far this idea might go.

Yes, this is very similar to how some existing units are organized. My wife and I are members of WDCU for this very reason. But that's still lacking in some ways.

So I need help finding another word/phrase to describe this new type of unit. I think there is a need and we should adapt and address this matter.

Lucius
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Old 07-20-2008, 07:36 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by nvestysly View Post
I need a better word/phrase...
not really lucius...

your post, and the O.P. make this pretty clear...

2ne1 with an imagination...

some that get it wanna divert others from these threatening concepts...

and some that really don't get it,

are still wondering if that talking box

on the wall down at the dry goodstore is gonna catch on...

i mean why would anyone want a talk-n-listen-box,

when ya can just hitch up bessy and visit 'em!

still IF u really want a swanky work this one might work...

cheers
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Old 07-20-2008, 07:42 PM   #99
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I have been following this thread and I am having a hard time finding the differences between some existing units and the E-Unit (you can use it if you like) you are discussing. Many units use email to deliver newsletters and other information to their members. Most unit business can be handled this way. As far as electronic discussions, there is a private area on these forums for several units where just that is happening every day.

Electronic media is great for taking care of unit business, but don't loose sight of what a unit is all about. It's the rallies, getting together with your friends and meeting new ones.
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Old 07-20-2008, 07:58 PM   #100
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as u are well aware...

ALL UNITS are tied to a specific geographic location (a STATE)and region...

this was a pia issue for the unit u are NOW part of...

since the actual NAME of the unit IS NOT 4cu...

there was a long thread here on JUST this issue during the development phase,

and how u folks circumvented, solved and caved into the charter process...

BEFORE U TOOK THE PROCESS OFF the public threads, so the wb' and ibt folks wouldn't see the thinking..

we (the imaginary a/s owners) understand the camping side and rewards of "meeting up"...

and while the wdcu was started with the intention of being a national unit...

it isn't.

cheers
2air'
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