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08-26-2010, 10:12 AM
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#21
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Rivet Master
1997 34' Limited
1970 27' Overlander
South of Atlanta
, Georgia
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,709
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Bob,
Thanks for the update of the minutes, I will look forward to the Mid-Winter results of the discussion.
It would seem the easiest way would be to simply delete Article V, and VI, C.
__________________
Craig and Carol
1997 34' Excella 1000
1970 27' Overlander, International
2009 Ford F150 5.4L
ProPride hitch with 1400# bars
AIR 41028
TAC GA-8
WBCCI 10199
Past President Southeastern Camping Unit (12)
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08-26-2010, 10:24 AM
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#22
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Rivet Master
1961 24' Tradewind
1969 29' Ambassador
1970 21' Globetrotter
Jamestown
, Tennessee
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,783
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voting
On voting:
There must be a way to vote that gives each and every member the opportunity to, be it by mail, in person, or electronically.
There also needs to be a way an individual voter can instruct the delegate to vote for a person running from the floor.
Since some running from the floor are not known until the actual meeting it should be possiible to , for a member to instruct his delegate to vote for anyone running for that office from the floor, but not the "approved" candidate.
Block unit voting needs to go unless in fact everyone did vote that way.
Candidates for office need to publish a statement of what they are going to do for the club instead of or in addition to resumes. From the floor candidates should have the same rights to publishing their message in the Blue Beret as the slate put forth by the nominating committee either free, or every one should pay
I would also suggest that where possible the nominating committee put forth 2 candidates for each office.
The present system is inconsistent from unit to unit and year to year , at least in the case of my unit.
Basically the system needs to be reworked to give us a choice.
__________________
Rick Davis 1602 K8DOC
61 tradewind, plus a few others
13 Ram 2500 TD
99 Dodge TD 577K miles
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08-26-2010, 11:21 AM
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#23
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Rivet Master
1997 34' Limited
1970 27' Overlander
South of Atlanta
, Georgia
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,709
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FWIW one of the organizations I belong to with approx 75,000 members uses an online or telephone system for voting. I do not know what the cost to the organization to use it is. With that disclaimer, it allows each member to vote either via online or phone utilizing their membership number and a pin. A system like that would allow all members to vote should they choose to do so, and vote for a candidate they like early, or wait for any floor candidates to come forward. The final tally is then released at the end of the voting period. This would also allow members a couple of days to think about the available candidates. For example all existing and floor candidates are announced on Monday of the meeting and the vote closes on Wednesday with installation on Thursday or Friday.
This would also allow members unable to attend in person, but watching a stream to become informed and still vote in a timely manner.
Should this be something deemed worthy of pursuit, I would be happy to gather the necessary contacts and PM/email them to the committee.
__________________
Craig and Carol
1997 34' Excella 1000
1970 27' Overlander, International
2009 Ford F150 5.4L
ProPride hitch with 1400# bars
AIR 41028
TAC GA-8
WBCCI 10199
Past President Southeastern Camping Unit (12)
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08-26-2010, 11:48 AM
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#24
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Rivet Master
1961 24' Tradewind
1969 29' Ambassador
1970 21' Globetrotter
Jamestown
, Tennessee
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aviator
This would also allow members unable to attend in person, but watching a stream to become informed and still vote in a timely manner.
Should this be something deemed worthy of pursuit, I would be happy to gather the necessary contacts and PM/email them to the committee.
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Something like this would be great. It would get all the units out of the process and allow the membership to vote directly for the International candidate of their choice. It would also allow things to proceed in a more timely manner instead of units voting in March or April. A lot can happen in a couple months
__________________
Rick Davis 1602 K8DOC
61 tradewind, plus a few others
13 Ram 2500 TD
99 Dodge TD 577K miles
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08-26-2010, 11:52 AM
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#25
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Ready-to-Travel
2012 30' International
Walkerton
, Virginia
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets
Pat I understand 1 & 2, can you amplifiy your thoughts on 3 please.
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On Elections, it seems to me that the process strongly favors the slate put up by the current officers; that the elections are really ratifications.
I think the difficulties Leo faced were instructive in that they illustrated several of the ways an un-sanctioned candidate can be defeated long before any votes are cast.
Someone earlier made a reference to how the Masons advance - chair by chair, year by year. I don't know if that is their real process, but it appears that the wbcci does something similar.
I won't try to provide the proper language, but I believe others have suggested language changes previously.
Pat
__________________
--------------------------------------
Somebody, please, point me to the road.
AIR 3987
TAC VA-2
WBCCI 4596
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08-26-2010, 12:07 PM
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#26
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4 Rivet Member
2007 25' International CCD
Lamy
, New Mexico
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 268
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Elections Part 1 - Major Changes
This series of posts is partially in response to posts on elections. What is outlined are major results and not specific amendments to the by-laws and constitution. Sorting those out is the job of the By-laws committee.
1. Members at Large (MAL) shall be allowed to vote in all international elections.
2. MALs shall be allowed to vote in all region elections providing they reside in that region based on their address on file at HQ.
3. MALs shall be allowed to hold international offices.
4. MALs shall be allowed to hold region offices providing that they reside within the boundary of the region - see #2.
5. All amendments to either the International Constitution or By-laws shall be approved by a direct vote of the membership. An affirmative vote of (insert percentage - 60 or 75?) of the membership (or membership voting) shall be required for passage.
6. International Officers shall be elected by a direct vote of the membership.
__________________
Howard and Carolyn
TAC NM-1
Four Corners Unit Treasurer
WBCCI 5279, AIR #24915
KF5RGU
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08-26-2010, 12:26 PM
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#27
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Silver Mist
Currently Looking...
Riverhead
, New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
Wait a minute
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Leo as an an expelled member you have no place here nor will I address you or your sock puppets.
We both know each other to well cool it!
__________________
Bob
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08-26-2010, 12:28 PM
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#28
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Silver Mist
Currently Looking...
Riverhead
, New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,011
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Pat and Howard, thanks for your input give me some time to reflect on it.
__________________
Bob
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08-26-2010, 12:39 PM
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#29
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4 Rivet Member
2007 25' International CCD
Lamy
, New Mexico
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 268
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Elections Part 2 - Procedures
A. Nominations for International Offices
1. The nominating committee proposes a slate of candidates - no change from current procedures.
2. Nomination by petition - any member in good standing wishing to run for international office will be placed on the ballot by submitting a nomination petition signed by (insert percentage, 2% suggested) of the membership in good standing to the International Headquarters by (insert date).
3. The slate of candidates proposed by the Nominating Committee along with any candidates by petition shall be published in the Blue Beret (BB) at no charge to the candidates.
4. Any amendments to the International Constitution and/or By-laws shall also be published in the BB prior to the vote.
B. Procedures for International Elections
1. HQ mails ballots to all members in good standing at the time of the election.
2. Members have the option of either voting by returning the mail ballot or by the internet. Each ballot contains a unique PIN so that "one member - one vote" is maintained.
3. HQ or the designated tabulating agent reports the results to HQ and the IBT.
4. The results are announced at the International Rally and also published in the next issue of the BB.
C. Suggested Time Lines
1. Nominating Committee candidates announced no later that 1 Feb.
2. Nominating petitions due at HQ by 1 March.
3. Candidates and amendments published in the April issue of the BB.
4. Ballots mailed to membership by 1 May.
5. Close of voting - ballots must be received at HQ and internet votes cast by 1 June.
6. Results reported to HQ/IBT 15 June
7. Results announced at International Rally and published in the next issue of the BB.
Advantages:
1. One member - one vote.
2. Members at Large are represented.
3. Eliminates the hodge-podge of Unit voting procedures and streamlines the time line for elections.
4. The Delegates meeting at the International Rally becomes supurfluos and the IBT meetings can be moved to times when the membership is present at the International Rally, rather than before and after the rally.
5. The cost of mailing ballots is minimal - non-profit zip sorted ~ $0.04 each X 6500 members = ~ $260.
__________________
Howard and Carolyn
TAC NM-1
Four Corners Unit Treasurer
WBCCI 5279, AIR #24915
KF5RGU
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08-26-2010, 12:45 PM
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#30
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Rivet Master
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer
, Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,080
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets
Leo as an an expelled member you have no place here nor will I address you or your sock puppets.
We both know each other to well cool it!
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So only members can have ideas for improving the WBCCI. Well even the WBCCI forum allows non-members. Are you insinuating as someone who joined the effort that was already in progress to reinstate Leo, and then took the lead with it, that after you retained a seat on a brand new committee, that now you regard Leo as deserving of expulsion and not even allowed to speak. He is silenced by his own support team?
I think I am confused. Who are you calling names by the way? Anybody I know. I hope. It's nice to have loyalty recognized.
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08-26-2010, 12:49 PM
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#31
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Rivet Master
1961 24' Tradewind
1969 29' Ambassador
1970 21' Globetrotter
Jamestown
, Tennessee
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested
Well even the WBCCI forum allows non-members.
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Actually the WBCCI forum only allows this kind of discussion in the members Area.
Used to be, SOME members were allowed to post in the members area.
Now NO members are allowed to post in the members area.
OOPS, there is no members area.
__________________
Rick Davis 1602 K8DOC
61 tradewind, plus a few others
13 Ram 2500 TD
99 Dodge TD 577K miles
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08-26-2010, 01:01 PM
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#32
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Rivet Master
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer
, Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,080
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets
Rick you are on topic it is defined in the bylaws.
STANDING COMMITTEES - GENERAL DUTIES
F.
Electronic Communications To develop, provide and maintain an advanced community forum for present and potential club members. Provide support to individual club, Unit and Region members and other committees’ effort to exploit the many features available both on and off the Internet. Through these combined efforts, the electronic medium can be used to increase the club’s presence and relevance to present and potential club members. (7/5/10)
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Except for this thread and except for Leo and except for whom you are discriminating against as sock puppets, is that right? Can you show me where that is listed in the constitution and by-laws Bob or is that something you will be introducing on the committee in exchange for dropping the lawsuit to support Leo? And you are keeping our money that we gave to reinstate Leo and took away our action and said it belonged to New York and now you will use it for leverage on your seat on the new committee???? And you are imposing a ban?
What the heck just happened here? Wake up people!!
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08-26-2010, 03:18 PM
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#33
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Site Team
1964 26' Overlander
1964 19' Globetrotter
OlyPen
, Washington
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,926
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Moderator hat on:
While the topic of discussion may be of particular interest to WBCCI members, all registered AIR members are free to post on this board. Please remember that direct attacks on another member are verboten. Please keep discussions on the topic of the thread and within our forum guidelines - paying SPECIAL attention to the be nice rule.
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08-26-2010, 04:55 PM
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#34
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Silver Mist
Currently Looking...
Riverhead
, New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,011
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On that same note I'm not required to reply to anyone.
Of course non members are welcome to post their thoughts relating to this very important matter
__________________
Bob
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08-26-2010, 06:22 PM
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#35
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Rivet Master
1974 31' Sovereign
1970 23' Safari
1956 26' Cruiser Overlander
Lambertville
, Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,174
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__________________
Dave
TAC# MI-1
Operation "Save Rudy" Strike Team (charter member)
Yes, I am still working on it.
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08-26-2010, 08:30 PM
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#36
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Rivet Master
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,800
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Bob,
When I was Prez of the WDCU, I read both the WBCCI Constitution and the By-Laws over 20 times each to the point I knew when the MOHO Constitution changes was place out for a vote they worded it wrong because they left out a certain article and sec of the Constitution which they had to then change in the middle of the voting at International.
So when it comes to dealing with the WBCCI Constitution and By-Laws, been there, done that, got the shirt. That’s a part of my live I don’t care to re-live again. Everything you need to know in terms of what people would like to see has been hashed, rehashed and made in to mash on these very forums many times over the past 4-5 years. It would only take you five minutes of searching on this forum to know who, what and how needs to be done/changes made to keep the WBCCI alive. Plus, not to sound like Leo’s sock puppet, if you guys were fighting for all the changes listed on the Defend Wally site, you should already know the information you’re asking for from me.
At this time in my life and after beating my head against the wall with the IBT/EC7 in the past, I have found “nothing” will come of this. I think it’s great that you and others want to give it “one more try” in the hopes that this time unlike others something will change.
Again, it’s all been documented in the past, I’ve even started many of the threads myself about changes people would like to see.
What you may or may not understand, there has been some change already made. If it was not for the Save Wally crowd the IBT/EC7 would have gotten the name change through and the MOHO change through. The problem you have, the biggest voice you had in keeping that from happening is now gone. Not that you and others don’t have a strong voice, I think we would all agree there was one person that really kept the IBT/EC7’s feet to the fire.
Again, everything you are looking has been documented more than once and I don’t care to go through it again.
I wish you well on your new work but this time I’m going to sit this one out. But I do reserve the right to make a comment in the future.
__________________
Paul Waddell
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08-26-2010, 08:43 PM
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#37
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Silver Mist
Currently Looking...
Riverhead
, New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,011
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Paul thanks for taking the time to write a sincere post.
I appreciate it, I know how you worked for the clubs best interest in the past.
Ps: The cartoon is great
__________________
Bob
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08-27-2010, 11:38 AM
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#38
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Rivet Master
1969 31' Sovereign
Broken Arrow
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,455
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Having been a MAL many years ago it was obvious to me there were some serious problems in the "club". MAL's were not really members, had no rights except to send in their dues and have red numbers. I elected not to renew but have followed events on this forum where everyone is welcome and has a say if they so desire.
I have no idea how many threads have been started or how many post about the WBCCI have been posted on this forum but it is obvious there are a lot of unsatisfied WBCCI members hanging in there hoping for change, a few who have fought for change and a lot who have given up and moved on.
I don't see how a committee forced down the throat of the IBT is going to be taken any more serious than a MAL.
So what is on the committees agenda to address the MAL's ?
__________________
Garry
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08-27-2010, 11:44 AM
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#39
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Silver Mist
Currently Looking...
Riverhead
, New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garry
I don't see how a committee forced down the throat of the IBT is going to be taken any more serious than a MAL.
So what is on the committees agenda to address the MAL's ?
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Fact the committee was not forced upon the IBT it was created by them to incorporate change and streamline the governing documents among other things.
As to your MAL issue.
What rights do you believe they should have, within your post I don't see any specifics, please elaborate.
__________________
Bob
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08-27-2010, 11:48 AM
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#40
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Silver Mist
Currently Looking...
Riverhead
, New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,011
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Sorry I just cleared my PM box, if you couldn't get thru because it was full.
Also feel free to use email
__________________
Bob
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