WBCCI Board Lawsuit

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by doug&maggie

Bob, I'll ask this for Carol.

Come on, she gave you money!! I think that many inquiring minds want the answer, so please advise.

Thanks in advance for your timely and complete response.

Maggie

In response to this, I received a private email from LI Pets that he is not responding to requests for information on this "toxic thread". He is also not responding to requests for information from contributors in private messages.

Bob, you seem to have some serious control issues, IMO, and this is not serving you well. Might want to look at that.

Maggie

[LI Pets]

correction I said non contributors, please check your pm, you have not contributed.

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by LI Pets

correction I said non contributors, please check your pm, you have not contributed.

I'm not a contributor, but Carol/Wheel Interested is, and you refused to give her this information.

Maggie

[mistral blue]

Originally Posted by nasons

... Defend Wally created a legal fund and Metro NY later came on board as an additional plaintiff. Legal counsel was retained to file suit against WBCCI and institute change.

Originally Posted by nasons

During the course of preparing the law suit, Defend Wally/Metro NY was contacted by WBCCI. Discussions began, and eventually centered on withholding the lawsuit in exchange for appointing a representative from Defend Wally/Metro NY to sit on a newly created “By-Laws Revision Committee.” ... Encouraged by this turn of events and intent upon having a seat at the table to institute positive change within WBCCI, Defend Wally/Metro NY has decided to withhold filing suit in the hope that changes in the club can be achieved amicably through this new Committee.

Defend Wally/Metro NY has chosen a representative to the Committee, and he has been duly appointed by WBCCI.

To this end we have directed counsel to suspend legal action while the By-Laws Revision Committee meets to generate its recommendations, and the WBCCI act upon same.

Sincerely,
Michele M. Curley
President Metro NY Unit
and on behalf of Defend Wally

Originally Posted by RickDavis

I am assuming the lawsuit is not gone and could /would be reactivated if progress is not made??

Originally Posted by LI Pets

Correct, hence the escrow account!

Originally Posted by Byteman

I don't know about anyone else here, but I think having a seat at the table that rewrites the rules is just fine. If it doesn't work out, that suit can and should go forward, ....

WHAT MORE COULD BE HAD!!

Originally Posted by Byteman

As a Metro NY Board Member I can say I was not in personal approval of this lawsuit....

Originally Posted by Byteman

I do certainly have faith in Bob to put the whole of membership and prospective membership at the top of the agenda. I have no reason to doubt him. I would certainly rather have a seat at this table than not....

Having said that… We are fully prepared to engage in legal action should it be necessary. The lawsuit is not dead and should/is being reserved as our last resort to achieve our goals and objectives....

Metro New York took this initiative after being a direct victim of bad policy/practice by preceding IBT administrations in WBCCI. We are taking this initiative where we collectively feel it needs to go.

Originally Posted by sezwho

The Anonymous Sock Puppet Speaks

Once upon a time there was a little unit called Metro NY not the biggest but the friendliest……..my how things have changed.

...lo and behold some of the feckless leaders agents approach the lawyer and the people and seem to want to strike a deal.

...the agents approach and say they are forming a new committee to rewrite the by-laws and if someone that seems to know the issues at hand would be interested in sitting on that committee….Well heck it may be a working solution and it may accomplish maybe SOME of the goals of the nice guy…. and then everyone can all get back to the business of camping. ….this little club is by now getting a little overwhelmed with the responsibility of this money and the looming lawsuit and think….yeah this just may be the solution and it could actually work……the very least they can do is “give it a try”…………………and so here they are willing to at least try………….

Arrogance is so unbecoming Bob. You have too many examples in this thread alone to list.

Please Bob, just give the money back and apologize, not to me, but to the people quoted above. They believed in you. They trusted you. Lawsuits should not be looked upon as some "hobby" or game Bob. They affect people deeply.

Originally Posted by LI Pets

asked and answered

It woul take say two months to organize and raise money, but it will not be easy.

Now it's November, you file suit, wait a month for the defendant to answer.

Oppps it's January already, by that same time the bylaws committee filed its changes.

Now if it passes your suit just died.

The time for such a call to action is soooo premature it's just silly or baseless.

It's over, just chill till the mid winters, if this isn't adopted which I doubt, there will be a mass drop in membership.

I no longer trust you Bob.

Your Committee is already at a serious crossroads and the work hasn't even started.

[MRHottinger]

Originally Posted by LI Pets

correction I said non contributors, please check your pm, you have not contributed.

Bob,
I am new to AS and a brand new WBCCI member and am concerned about many of the issues with the club and believe with good communication and open information of what is happening the committee should be successful in general.

Contributor or not, does this committee not represent the greater good of the concerned WBCCI members? If it is not a law suit now, why should being a contributor matter? Being a committee in WBCCI system now makes every dues paying member of WBCCI a contributor. Is the committee in fact, as others state on here recently, really just a NY committee and that is all that matters?

It is stated that this committee was formed to come to common ground with the WBCCI for positive change as many members want and to keep the club what it was meant to be and make the leadership responsible to keep a balanced budget. The contributors made a good faith investment on a law suit but it appears by your decision to abstain from detailing facts that the committee is for a few people, not the greater good since it has become a SECRET to the masses on what has conspired and what is now on the actual agenda. Communication by PM is just that, PRIVATE. I thought PRIVATE meetings and PRIVATE conversations brought this to be.

It seems to me that there was a lot of people asking questions late July and your statements were to the point that you could not comment on the lawsuit because the attorney’s advised you not to. According to the only time line we have, Leo's, the law suit was tabled mid July and the committee was already formed and there were no lawyers involved. As a neutral, non-contributor I ask you this.

Why should I stand behind this committee and moreover you if the facts and timelines are so secretive? I am just asking as new member that is trying to understand if you and the committee are out for my best interests or just New York’s. I am a member in Region 3 and what I see is Region 3 is a great region and working for the greater good also, I am proud to be counted in their numbers.

Why should I or anyone truly believe you and the committee best represent me?

Why are there secrets? If the actions are honorable a committee should have open records.

Do I trust the committee? Lets just say since I have less knowledge than most but understand the greater good of what Wally's club was about (that's why I bought an AS) but trust the committee at this time, I don't know. I am guarded as to my stance on this but would believe if the committee was open on the secrets that appear to be there trust would soon become a non factor with most people.

I would like to see a Bio on each committee member to understand where they come from and why they are best suited for a seat at the table. Is this bad? I think it is reasonable and maybe some of this distrust will go away. It is not unusual to see bios on committee members and board members in the business world.

Bob, I don't expect you to answer these questions; I just want to spark a few things that a newbie like myself might be thinking. It appears this is going the same direction the IBT has gone with secret and private discussions that lead to lies and deception. I am a person that waits to get all the facts to take a side but I must be honest Bob, it does not look good for you or the committee. There are people asking questions and the get a politician’s dance, a little side step if you will. The only facts posted so far on how this came to be is from Leo but yet he is attacked. Why is that? Share with us and let us see that the committee is here for us all. The lawsuit was for a few basic things. 1) make the IBT accountable for the financials and 2) get a member that has done more for the club to stay on the path that the great Wally Byam set it on. Now that we lost Leo, it appears the goal is already loosing ground. Can the other 50% be saved. Ok so maybe I missed the SOB motorhome issue but that could not happen without rewriting history and a few people don’t control the greater membership required to vote that in, unless the people that care stop being members, then it becomes easier.

Thanks for the forum space to speak out on what a non-Anonymous member has a view point on.

Mike

ps. I guess Leo could be substitued for Miss Mona in the song and sorry Bob but you sure seem like the Governor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCDoBvG1HoI

[LI Pets]

Mike since you took the time to write a lengthy post, understand I'm not replying to any questions in this thread, I consider the thread closed.

You can post in the bylaws thread or as I have said before.

Originally Posted by LI Pets

I have extended an invitation to call a few people, so I'm available not hiding.

Not to be secret on a call, just not to read trash talk here by others.

[Boondocker]

Originally Posted by LI Pets

.... understand I'm not replying to any questions in this thread, I consider the thread closed.

You can post in the bylaws thread or as I have said before.

Really? Do you have any idea how proclamations like that look? Just in case you dont. It looks arbitrary, and imperious- the very problems that people are having with the WBCCI. Are you certain that is how you want to approach this? Is this any way for the "reform" representative to be acting? Really?

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by LI Pets

Mike since you took the time to write a lengthy post, understand I'm not replying to any questions in this thread, I consider the thread closed.

You can post in the bylaws thread or as I have said before.

Not to be secret on a call, just not to read trash talk here by others.

To state the obvious, you consider this thread "closed", yet you're still reading it and responding to posts when you choose.

How much action and support are you getting on that other thread, Bob? Is this approach you've taken working for you? Might be time to reassess and reconsider.

Maggie

[LI Pets]

I started an open forum, this is silly, I have a choice to post answers where I wish.

Your choice, it is open to both members and wannabe members, naysayers will not be responded to.

This must be the gazillionth time I said this.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...s-68639-5.html

As far as action over there maybe when folks get out of the denial stage they'll wake up and realize they have an opportunity to get their ideas considered by the committee thu myself.

[wheel interested]

So what you are saying now, is that you are no longer saying, what you used to be saying, that you will not respond to non-members, non-supporters, expelled members and former non-team members; but that you will respond to everyone else that agrees with you, doesn't trash talk and are not naysayers. And that the open forum you created, is that the one where you said some people couldn't post to your thread, and then received a moderator's reminder that the thread is open to all Airforums members, and then you said it is, but you dont have to answer them, That one? The one that you made that is open to all, or some, but not to be confused with this thread that is not open to all or to some? btw, no need to respond to me that you are not responding to me.

Such a media hound. What brings you front and center today Bob, any new news? Are we supposed to write NYU for refunds? When do you expect they will be processed and will it be upon request will it be automatic and who is in charge of handling those in case someone would like to make an inquiry? Will the refunds be issued through Pay Pal if they were so donated and by check for those who mailed in their contributions? These questions do not rightfully belong in the constitution and by-laws committee thread. I wouldn't close Howie's thread until he comes back and until you have followed up with answers to spare the unit president from having to repeat herself too many times since you are handling the matter of the lawsuit and defense funds.

Post# 28

Leo as an an expelled member you have no place here nor will I address you or your sock puppets

Post#36
Moderator hat on:

While the topic of discussion may be of particular interest to WBCCI members, all registered AIR members are free to post on this board. Please remember that direct attacks on another member are verboten. Please keep discussions on the topic of the thread and within our forum guidelines - paying SPECIAL attention to the be nice rule.

Post#37

On that same note I'm not required to reply to anyone.

This would present itself to be of a particular challenge for committee members to help facilitate uniting the club when you will not address those of dissenting opinion.

[Dave Park]

When someone gets onto a committee, then acts as gatekeeper of opinions to that committee, then only solicits those opinions that they agree with, it's called confirmation bias.

[wheel interested]

Originally Posted by LI Pets

I started an open forum, this is silly, I have a choice to post answers where I wish.

Your choice, it is open to both members and wannabe members, naysayers will not be responded to.

This must be the gazillionth time I said this.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...s-68639-5.html

As far as action over there maybe when folks get out of the denial stage they'll wake up and realize they have an opportunity to get their ideas considered by the committee thu myself.

Through yourself, or through Dona? You sure bilk the lime light, Ill give you that. Better sharpen that pencil and those writing skills Bob, looks like you have lots of rewriting and proof reading ahead of you. That'll keep you out of mischief for a while.

From: Norman Beu <beu146@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 10:44:19 -0500
Subject: Membership
Friends

The selection of members for the Bylaws Revision Committee, approved by the Executive Committee on July 5, 2010, is now complete. I am pleased to announce the following appointments:

Dona Garner, Chairman, WBCCI Parliamentarian
Kerry Mattila, President, Ontario Canada Unit
Joe Perryman, 1st Vice President, Region 10
Bob Novak, Member, Metro New York Unit
Tom Smithson, First Vice President, Northern California Unit

I have encouraged Dona to consult with the 2020 Committee, the Vintage Airstream Club, and others as appropriate. I want to thank Dona, Kerry, Joe, Bob and Tom for stepping forward to the challenge of this significant task. My personal interest is to make the Blue Book more user friendly, to reduce the bulk, to review Standing Committee Job Descriptions, and to identify impediments to "fun, fellowship and adventure" - all the while retaining the essential character and the traditions of the WBCCI, including the Code of Ethics. Should you have an input for study by the Committee, please communicate directly with Dona.

Safe Travels

Norm Beu
President, WBCCI

(from Save Wally posted by Damon Beals)

[dufferin]

I see here WBCCI trend...

Originally Posted by LI Pets

(...)

Your choice, it is open to both members and wannabe members, naysayers will not be responded to.
(...)

[Boondocker]

Originally Posted by wheel interested

Through yourself, or through Dona? You sure bilk the lime light, Ill give you that.

From: Norman Beu <beu146@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 10:44:19 -0500
Subject: Membership
Friends

The selection of members for the Bylaws Revision Committee, approved by the Executive Committee on July 5, 2010, is now complete. I am pleased to announce the following appointments:

Dona Garner, Chairman, WBCCI Parliamentarian
Kerry Mattila, President, Ontario Canada Unit
Joe Perryman, 1st Vice President, Region 10
Bob Novak, Member, Metro New York Unit
Tom Smithson, First Vice President, Northern California Unit

I have encouraged Dona to consult with the 2020 Committee, the Vintage Airstream Club, and others as appropriate. I want to thank Dona, Kerry, Joe, Bob and Tom for stepping forward to the challenge of this significant task. My personal interest is to make the Blue Book more user friendly, to reduce the bulk, to review Standing Committee Job Descriptions, and to identify impediments to "fun, fellowship and adventure" - all the while retaining the essential character and the traditions of the WBCCI, including the Code of Ethics. Should you have an input for study by the Committee, please communicate directly with Dona.

Safe Travels

Norm Beu
President, WBCCI

(from Save Wally posted by Damon Beals)

Help me out here. This is from just a couple days ago right? Where in any of this is the suggestion that this committee is going to bring about significant restructuring? Someone school me, I don't see it.

[wkerfoot]

Rodney,

I don't see it either.

Bill

Originally Posted by Boondocker

Help me out here. This is from just a couple days ago right? Where in any of this is the suggestion that this committee is going to bring about significant restructuring? Someone school me, I don't see it.

[2airishuman]

1 of the apparently REAL tasks listed is to "review the standing committee job descriptions"...

i've seen the 3 ring noteBOOKS with these...

anyone wanna GUESS how many standing committees there ARE ((each with 1-3 page written job descriptions))?

cheers
2ari

[wkerfoot]

2air,

Over 100.

Bill

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

1 of the apparently REAL tasks listed is to "review the standing committee job descriptions"...

i've seen the 3 ring noteBOOKS with these...

anyone wanna GUESS how many standing committees there ARE ((each with 1-3 page written job descriptions))?

cheers
2ari

[rideair]

Talk about “It’s about as good as a Fart in a Space Suit”

Norman Beu:

“My personal interest is to make the Blue Book more user friendly, to reduce the bulk, to review Standing Committee Job Descriptions, and to identify impediments to "fun, fellowship and adventure" - all the while retaining the essential character and the traditions of the WBCCI, including the Code of Ethics.”

I’m not quite sure why you need a full blown committee to accomplish the above.

1. A simple re-indexing takes care of “user friendly / reduce bulk”.

2. To review something is simple. But he “does not” say “eliminating” any. One could maybe interpret this to mean a “re-write” of the descriptions and to get rid of the “fluff” while retaining the job and duties as they presently are stated.

3. “Identify Impediments” to “FF&A”. This was done by the 2020 committee a couple of years ago and no major changes ever came from it because it requires the IBT/EC7 to quit spending like drunken sailors, give power back to its members and quit harassing members that you don’t agree with.

4. But here’s the kicker! “while retaining the essential character and the traditions of the WBCCI, including the Code of Ethics” What this means, do all the above (1-3) which is nothing more than a paper exercise, but nothing will change that gives up control from the IBT/EC7 or makes them quit spending like drunken sailors or allows them to kick out members or allows the members to talk bad about the IBT/EC7 actions if they choose to do so.



In the words of Dr. Smith from "Lost in Space"

“The Pain, Oh the Pain”

[wheel interested]

1 of the apparently REAL tasks listed is to "review the standing committee job descriptions"...

i've seen the 3 ring noteBOOKS with these...

anyone wanna GUESS how many standing committees there ARE ((each with 1-3 page written job descriptions))?

Over 100.

Oh no...like Paul said, only I was thinking more along the lines that Bob just got sent to Pergatory! And I don't think there is anyone left outside that will pray him out. Vanity they name is committee...

[2airishuman]

ok so THIS phrase is clearly part of the wb PREZ message...

all the while retaining the essential character and the traditions of the WBCCI, including the Code of Ethics.

one of the recent changes i recall reading is an EXTENSION of the time to file a grievance...

from 30 days to 60 days ((this in spite of SOME calling for an END to the grievance committee))

wasn't this EXTENSION recently approved?

also from recollection the "code of ethics" includes language about how/not to address OTHER members of the wb'...

a glorified be NICE policy, sorta...but with more details and repercussions.

Originally Posted by LI Pets

...As far as action over there maybe when folks get out of the denial stage they'll wake up and realize they have an opportunity to get their ideas considered by the committee thu myself.

ONE THING FER SURE...

there are currently 4 OTHER folks on this new committee who might seem a TAD more useful to contact ...

IF ideas exist AND the thinkers of ideas wanna have those ideas considered...

just guessing, it might be ANY of those other folks will still be ON the committee months from now.

WHY? well here's why...

Originally Posted by LI Pets

...You can post in the bylaws thread or as I have said before...

so it's OK to read and refer to dat'thread...?

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...tml#post889710

Originally Posted by LI Pets

...Wbcci forums are run by the Gestapo...

isn't the CURRENT wb forum owner/runner a member of the wb'?

isn't referring to him PUBLICLY with such harsh labels some SORT of violation of the code'o'conduct?

((even if the thought of such a title is justified))

isn't it POSSIBLE that this wb' member COULD file a formal grievance related to being called a gestapo?

((being called a member of the nazi secret state police, is a bad thing right?))

it would seem that IF this wb' member opts to FILE a grievance and now has upto 60 days to do THAT...

the committee membership could change slightly as a result?

or considered another way...

IF ya wanna get yer ideas to bob, NOW might be the best time 2 do that.

just saying...

(as a proud member of the say'rs of nay or is it ni' , just saying ni ...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTQfGd3G6dg

cheers
2air'