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08-31-2010, 10:01 AM
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#921
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Restorations done right
Commercial Member
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore
, Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,545
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Why are so many "anonymous"? I was alway taught to be proud of what you do, to stand behind my actions. I cannot expect everyone to be the same. This is why my full name is below, this is why I am in the phone book, this is why my number is not unlisted.
one positive thing that has come out of this travesty is that a bunch of NYmetros are now posting here. They never did before, defending their actions has caused them to start. I always knew NY was a dog eat dog place, but their actions have demonstrated how true it is.
I just hope you are all proud of yourselves. I know Bob is.
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08-31-2010, 10:07 AM
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#922
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Naysayer
1968 24' Tradewind
Russellville
, earth
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,962
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Since we haven't heard a peep out of the WBBCI (which I think speaks volumes) I am pretty suspicious regarding the sincerity of this whole backroom deal. In fact, were I a betting man, I would be comfortable with giving 10 to 1 odds that Bob ends up under the bus this winter. At this point the IBT can walk away without losses given they haven't promised anything in public.
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08-31-2010, 10:23 AM
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#923
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sezwho
[FONT=Tahoma] The Anonymous Sock Puppet Speaks
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Nice story and sounds like it could be true.
Is it?
As for Bob, Rodney may be right, or maybe he'll sue the rest of the committee by January.
Gene
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08-31-2010, 10:53 AM
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#924
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2 Rivet Member
1975 31' Sovereign
Canby
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 79
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As a first time poster to this tread I have one question then a follow up statement.
Why can't another group of people interested in the same results (reinstating Leo and reforming WBCCI) investigate the filing of another Lawsuit?
It seems to me that my name was not on the first lawsuit, and that the putting a hold on the the first suit does not preclude another group from filing theirs. How about a group from the West Coast who believe in Leo and need for change, lets pull our respective heads out of the sand and really get things going.
Ted Davenport
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08-31-2010, 12:58 PM
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#925
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Rivet Master
1967 26' Overlander
Owings Mills
, MD
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,125
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If a social club treated one of my friends poorly and booted him (or her) out, I'd leave. I'd burn my ceremonial hat, shred my official name tag, and polish any identifying marks (*cough* red numbers *cough*) off my vehicle and/or trailer.
Just sayin'.
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08-31-2010, 01:17 PM
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#926
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Rivet Master
1977 31' Sovereign
1963 26' Overlander
1989 34' Excella
Johnsburg
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,944
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People will not likely financially support a similar venture when the first occurrence resulted in some feel they were burnt or betrayed. It is the fool me once, Shame on you Fool me twice Shame on me theory.
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08-31-2010, 02:14 PM
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#927
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Rivet Master
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer
, Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,080
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On the 28th you told us that you had more information to give us. What is that information?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets
yes there's more not sure I can disclose it.
I think I can, just want to check before hand.
Also the interpretation of that clause is not apparent as to what it means
more on that....
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On the same day you also told us that we would be receiving a refund but you didn't include a time frame. Will you please expound upon those specifics?
Quote:
Carol, not concrete, but about 2/3 of each contribution would be be returned.
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Bob you may not want to address me or answer my questions because I am no longer on your DW team but as one of the paying supporters I am entitled to be informed of your handling of the defense fund on my behalf, aren't I? And as my representative I am entitled not to be labeled a naysayer because I adhere to the original purpose of intiating the lawsuit, nor berated for my comments and questions that you seem to now find uncomfortable. But the fact remains that you are still my agent, and the agent of many others, and as such are accountable and must make reasonable disclosures as would be expected in a professional and courteous manner. That's the down side to being in charge, I guess. You aren't suppoed to be taking pot shots at the supporters and the person that the fund was established to help. You think?
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08-31-2010, 03:01 PM
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#928
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Rivet Master
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer
, Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,080
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May I please have a volunteer to ask my last two questions?
Bob pms me that I must find someone else to do that because I have asked to be removed from DW mailing list except for a refund and he says I do not want updates. He told me not to even think about reposting his message, so sorry, you will all have to just imagine the extent and colorfulness of his private messages not displayed on a public forum. And Bob to answer you as to what am I smoking? Absolutely nothing, I quit. Sigh Maybe after we save Wally and Leo we can thinkabout legalizing cannibus.
But more importantly now that we have that out of the way (feel better Bob?) When is it that supporters should expect to see their approximate 2/3 refund and what is the news you announced you would have for us now?
This time around, how about a little less subterfuge and some directness in answers?
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08-31-2010, 03:45 PM
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#929
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Rivet Master
2007 Interstate
Normal
, Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 18,078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested
May I please have a volunteer to ask my last two questions?
Bob pms me that I must find someone else to do that because I have asked to be removed from DW mailing list except for a refund and he says I do not want updates. He told me not to even think about reposting his message, so sorry, you will all have to just imagine the extent and colorfulness of his private messages not displayed on a public forum. And Bob to answer you as to what am I smoking? Absolutely nothing, I quit. Sigh Maybe after we save Wally and Leo we can thinkabout legalizing cannibus.
But more importantly now that we have that out of the way (feel better Bob?) When is it that supporters should expect to see their approximate 2/3 refund and what is the news you announced you would have for us now?
This time around, how about a little less subterfuge and some directness in answers?
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Bob, I'll ask this for Carol.
Come on, she gave you money!! I think that many inquiring minds want the answer, so please advise.
Thanks in advance for your timely and complete response.
Maggie
__________________
🏡 🚐 Cherish and appreciate those you love. This moment could be your last.🌹🐚
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08-31-2010, 05:40 PM
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#930
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_
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, .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
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a story from the american frontier and fables about american folk heros...
i am reasonably confident daniel boone did not attend this ibt seminar and has never done a simulcast...
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...t-66494-3.html
it would also be a safe wager he'd have LITTLE interest IF alive now...
in the particulars of writing rulz for a social club...
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...ons-68639.html
still, there is history and lessons to be learned from ole'daniel....
_______
after doing his duty in the civil war, records suggest boone worked as a surveyor for the union.
this gave him access to insider info on land and the opportunity to use that info for personal benefit.
he got into speculatin' with his own money and leveraged OTHER poeple's money for the same.
eventually he lost it ALL and dropped deeply into debt.
shortly thereafter, boone moved his family from kentucky to missouri where they lived for 20 years or so...
THAT move helped him escape the jurisdiction where his debts and collectors lived and their legal grasp...
while in missouri he worked for the french,
and his payments included MORE LAND in another region frontier region ...
this time the land given by the french turned out to be in what would become the louisiana purchase.
another bad luck move on boone's part.
once again he lost his original claim to the land,
since the french kept NO RECORDS of what they dealt to him...
then those same french guys sold it all to our uncle sam.
this left poor daniel even deeper in the abyss.
eventually some of his missouri claims were honored by the us government,
and he eventually had enough money to pay OFF some of his kentucky debits.
the point is his insider positions and dealings BOTH worked against him
and his ultimate payoff came the old fashion way...
a gift from our elected congress and the people at large.
________
we're a mobile society now but in the 1800s folks OFTEN moved to escape things...
hard life, bad crop weather, persecution, tyrants and yes even debt collectors.
_________
it seems we are NOW bouncing around in multiple threads here and perhaps for some of the same reasons...
WHOever or WHATever DW is needs 2 learn from dan boone's story...
RESOLVE the money issue, return the funds NOW to those entitled and move on.
until THAT is done posting about meetings, simulcasts and soliciting ideas for "change" is pointless...
give back the money, then ask forgiveness, then lick the wounds and move on.
((of course the story above is ENTIRELY fictional and it may not even be CLOSE 2 accurate american history))
________
regarding daniel boones later life,
there is evidence he wore a hat, but not a beret
and suggestions he did regularly travel by stream.
cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.
we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
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08-31-2010, 06:09 PM
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#931
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
after doing his duty in the civil war, records suggest boone worked as a surveyor for the union.
((of course the story above is ENTIRELY fictional and it may not even be CLOSE 2 accurate american history))
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Yes, unless you consider the War of the American Revolution a civil war (and I suppose it was), it is unlikely Boone participated in the Civil War as he died in 1820, although he could have been a zombie….
But it is an educational fable, and thus such errors can be tolerated. But, if he did become a zombie, he could now be serving on the IBT.
Gene
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08-31-2010, 06:31 PM
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#932
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_
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, .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
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details shifted 100 years so as not to be confused with davey crocket and the alamo...
since mr crocket also invented the world wide web...
on an ipad.
cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.
we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
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08-31-2010, 09:40 PM
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#933
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Rivet Master
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer
, Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,080
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Lawsuit Part 2
As far as I can see, nothing has changed in the progress and initiative of our lawsuit to try to reinstate Leo and correct the mishandling of the grievances except for a little lost time. We are no worse for wear. Your money should be available shortly from the Metro New York Unit. There may now be more people that would like to see Leo reinstated since they have become aware of the events and pending lawsuit. Let's shake the dust off and just not play into Bob's and the IBT's plans for us all. What do you say? Let's reaccess the situation and cut our loses, that means Bob you are out. NYU you are out. Leo we hope you are in.
I'm gonna wash that man right outa my hair,
And send him on his way.
Don't try to patch it up
Tear it up, tear it up!
Wash him out, dry him out,
Push him out, fly him out,
Cancel him and let him go!
If a man don't understand you,
If you fly on separate beams,
Waste no time, make a change,
Ride that man right off your range.
Rub him out of the roll call
And drum him out of your dreams.
Waste no time, weep no more,
Show him what the door is for.
Rub him out of the roll call
And drum him out of your dreams.
You can't light a fire when the woods are wet,
No!
You can't make a butterfly strong,
Hmm, hmm!
You can't fix an egg when it ain't quite good,
And you can't fix a man when he's wrong!
You can't put back a petal when it falls from a flower,
Or sweeten up a fellow when he starts turnin' sour
Oh no! Oh no!
Make a switch,
Drop him in the nearest ditch!
Rub him out of the roll call
As I said earlier and I still believe it, the lawsuit isn't done, Bob's done, at least as far as I am concerned.
Quote:
As a first time poster to this tread I have one question then a follow up statement.
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Quote:
Why can't another group of people interested in the same results (reinstating Leo and reforming WBCCI) investigate the filing of another Lawsuit?
It seems to me that my name was not on the first lawsuit, and that the putting a hold on the the first suit does not preclude another group from filing theirs. How about a group from the West Coast who believe in Leo and need for change, lets pull our respective heads out of the sand and really get things going.
Ted Davenport
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Ted that is a marvelous idea.
Dwight, I realize that many have lost confidence and have had their trust thwarted but those issues are person concentric and he is out of the picture busy serving on the IBT's Executive Committee's Committee, so we will carry on alone from here.
What say you? Are there any supporters remaining that haven't turned from their original intent in spite of the attempt to derail our efforts? Bob and MNY and the IBT only have the power that we allow them to have. Any one else want to stop the bus and get off and help Leo to get back up from under it?
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09-01-2010, 05:23 AM
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#934
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Restorations done right
Commercial Member
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore
, Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,545
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Notice that Bob no longer posts here? He has adopted the very tactic that he has railed against for years.
I think the campfire at the Fall Colors Rally will be a very interesting event with Mr. Novak in attendance. Many that were grifted of their money and some smart enough not to send it in will be there. The conversation should be very stimulating for sure.
The unfortunate part is that the rally is sold out. Wonder if Carl might be able to slide a few more rigs in. I hear PennWoods is spectacular. I was just kind of looking forward to going, now I am excited beyond belief.
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09-01-2010, 06:22 AM
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#935
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Silver Mist
Currently Looking...
Riverhead
, New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 62overlander
Notice that Bob no longer posts here? He has adopted the very tactic that he has railed against for years.
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asked and answered
Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets
I tried my best between the flames to answer legitimate posts in the last few days and correct what I believed were inaccurate statements.
But the rhetoric now needs to stop, time to move forward and get the work done.
I started a new thread about the bylaws revisions, those of you who want positive change lets take it there.
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I still monitor the rants which just repeat the same old stuff from a tiny group of naysayers.
Still only received 3 requests in re: refunds, Carol, Mistral and Lew.
I have extended an invitation to call a few people, so I'm availible not hiding.
Pennword is great, maybe you can throw me in the fire
Now you have an alternative avenue, you know Frank like TAC is an alternative to WBCCI.
Carol wants to start a new defense fund, that's anyone's choice.
A few things to be aware of make sure Leo himself donates and does ride on the contributors funds.
It woul take say two months to organize and raise money, but it will not be easy.
Now it's November, you file suit, wait a month for the defendant to answer.
Oppps it's January already, by that same time the bylaws committee filed its changes.
Now if it passes your suit just died.
The time for such a call to action is soooo premature it's just silly or baseless.
But either way Leo is still out but only one year remains until he can reapply for membership.
Are you absolutely certain a lawsuit would be faster?
Remember Leo took 10 weeks to give the DW lawyer squat.
He needs 400 hours he said, be certain all his work is complete before you ask for money, a mistake I made.
Now he gets reinstated (which he already declined?)
Within a matter of days somebody will file a new
Grievance , oooops he's out again.
It's over, just chill till the mid winters, if this isn't adopted which I doubt, there will be a mass drop in membership.
.
__________________
Bob
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09-01-2010, 07:30 AM
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#936
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Contributing Member
2018 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Austin (Hays County)
, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,164
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Make that four!
Quote:
Still only received 3 requests in re: refunds, Carol, Mistral and Lew.
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Add me to the list of those who are demanding refunds. I thought that was clear from previous posts.
__________________
John W. Irwin
2018 Interstate GT, "Sabre-Dog V"
WBCCI #9632
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09-01-2010, 08:09 AM
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#937
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Naysayer
1968 24' Tradewind
Russellville
, earth
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets
It's over, just chill till the mid winters, if this isn't adopted which I doubt, there will be a mass drop in membership.
.
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Exactly what is being adopted? As far as I know there is no proposal on the table. Or is this like health care, too important to let the general public know about until its passed? Maybe this can just be "deemed" as passed as well....
If there is an actual proposal being considered it needs to be out in the sunlight not hidden in a back-room, no matter how pure the back-room crowds motives may be.
Glad I have withheld my dues, if this keeps up that will be a permanent situation.
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09-01-2010, 10:46 AM
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#938
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4 Rivet Member
2000 31' Land Yacht
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 497
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I too, would like my money back.
Jim Mickle
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09-01-2010, 11:20 AM
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#939
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_
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, .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
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why hiding in missouri won't work this time...
Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets
...Still only received 3 requests in re: refunds...
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and the list grows now...
some folks were savy enough to delay sending $$ and others canceled their payments...
but a few sincere folks really did send $$ for the advertised goals...
those adverts have expired OR been reframed.
so here's the deal DW...
since so FEW want their money back, simply RETURN 100% to everyone NOT in the met-NY unit.
IS the met-ny money in a separate escrow account too?
if so give back ALL the money to everyone else (like the growing list above)
this way only met-ny money would be used to buy influence.
ya know, IF that's what happened?
cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.
we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
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09-01-2010, 11:43 AM
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#940
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,711
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Call Tech Support to find out what happened to your money and the lawsuit.
Gene
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