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Old 08-28-2010, 01:46 PM   #861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT View Post
Unfortunately from my end ALL information relating to this "settlement" is from just one source and it wasn't the attorney. ...
yes i understand leo and it's unlikely your CURRENT info stream can be trusted for real info.

but even without a GOOD SOURCE for the details,

you have been sniffing out and posting some of the INconsistencies in the story offered here ...

good radar ol'fella.
__________

some of the OTHER CURRENT members in good standing, can explore further and VERIFY the details...

there are several past office holders, leaders and so on reading here/or posting who NEED TO...

verify with the wb' side, some/any/all the details offered in this thread.

there are many references here to "fiduciary responsibility" that all read like OFFICIAL nonsense...

those that have pledged or GIVEN money need to dig deeper and verify...

it is after all their money, not bobs or the defend group, or metro ny...

don't put your BRAINz in escrow too.


cheers
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Old 08-28-2010, 01:53 PM   #862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
this is an EXAMPLE of the rationalization one might INVENT

to go along with the STORY told here about the legal action and committee.

it is NOT verification of the story FROM the ibt/prez or even ANY real committee member.



anyone even VAGUELY connected to the wb' over the last 4-6 years...

might have typed this though once or twice...

4-6 years ago.

that's THE POINT, longer term members or those LOOKING for signs of change were pointing them out years ago...

the signs went NO WHERE.




this might be very well true and was pointed out months ago...

the point NOW is that SOME OF THOSE (not carol or leo) who took on LEADING the cause have caved...

no one actually knows WHY or HOW the caving came about.

and those that have caved, STILL HOLD THE MONEY given from those who WANTED legal action, not a committee.



1. no one is ranting, these are RATIONAL, reasoned thoughts backed with REAL facts, open for all to interpret.

2. the "absurd" part is someone is HOLDING MONEY and has SPENT part of it, withOUT actually doing what was advertised.

3. again "giving a new path" (the new committee) a chance is EXACTLY what has happened for years and years...

only new members of the wb' or those that have NOT LEARNED the recent history, would suggest this.
____________

when some1 here suggests THIS is deja VU, pay attention grasshopper...

it IS DEJA VU.
____________

the wb' IS changing.

the change is PRIMARILY a result of fallling cash reserves.

we all know when they run out of money real changes will happen.

those TRYING to fix the mess (leo and many other sincere members) have been trying to do so...

BEFORE the money dries up.
___________

a committee won't fix it.
___________

but the questions remain...

-HOW did bob end up on this committee...

-WERE there negotiations as described here...

-WHO suggested the committee and member selection process...

-WHAT are they really charged with doing....

>>>>in other words dont' RATIONALIZE the story told, VERIFY the facts and EVENTS...

cheers
2air'

I agree with much of what you're saying here, I just see that it's over. I also thinking there's some ranting going on. I would be likely be ranting if I had contributed to this lawsuit, which I did not.

We may not have the facts, why's and wherefore's, etc., but they that were going to be the Plaintiffs and responsible for paying for this suit over time have chosen a different path.

And I'm not saying it went down the way it should have---it certainly didn't---just that it's done and those who want their money back need to take that up with those that have it. It just seems to me all these posts are pointless and redundant, as nothing can be resolved here.

It may be time for me to stop reading all this. The handwriting was on the wall months ago, IMO.

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Old 08-28-2010, 02:00 PM   #863
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Originally Posted by doug&maggie View Post
...It may be time for me to stop reading all this...
good choice.

but finding out what REALLY did happen, what really IS happening, and what really WILL happen still matters...

so does the money taken from members and solicited HERE.

the mess needs cleaning up, that still matters.

and there is NO PROOF it's over, only the few posts by those now HOLDING the money...

that's the point, as is reINstatement, as is a REAL effort to change the wb'....

the SELF PROCLAIMED poster in this thread....

is no leader, no visionary, and with NO RECORD of ever helping the wb' GET to the next level.

as posted earlier the SCHeeeeME was or became a ruse and now the ruser is gonna serve the membership?

eye dunt think sew...

cheers
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Old 08-28-2010, 02:32 PM   #864
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Originally Posted by lewster View Post
You know..........

It seems to me that when I pledged to support Defend Wally there was a law suit that was going to be brought against the WBCCI for the many reasons originally listed.

Now there is no lawsuit and we are being told that the contributions are being held in escrow........FOR WHAT?

Please enlighten me here without BS or heated rhetoric......name calling or any other diversion. Some folks are in....others out. I simply want to know where my contribution is and WHEN I CAN EXPECT IT TO BE RETURNED now that the original purpose for the funds no longer exists. I did not donate funds to form a committee, I DONATED FUNDS FOR A LAWSUIT THAT WAS TO CHANGE THE DIRECTION OF THE FAILING WBCCI AND TO GET Leo G RE-INSTATED!

I'm a patient person, but from where I come from, you don't solicit funds for one purpose, then spin around and change course and expect that the original contributors will remain happy with this new path...one that ostensibly does not require the funds that were originally donated.

Am I missing something here????????????

Some straight answers will suffice nicely!
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug&maggie View Post
... but they that were going to be the Plaintiffs and responsible for paying for this suit over time have chosen a different path.
As a contributor to DW, lewster was a member of DW.
That was the only requirement.

As a member of DW, lewster would have therefore been considered one of the plaintiffs
and would have been one of the ones "responsible for paying this suit over time."

When did lewster "choose a different path"?
What happened to the rights of the DW contributors?
How can you solicit funds for one purpose and then decide to go in a completely different direction without telling anyone?
How can the people involved with this be trusted now?
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Old 08-28-2010, 02:33 PM   #865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
good choice.

but finding out what REALLY did happen, what really IS happening, and what really WILL happen still matters...

so does the money taken from members and solicited HERE.

the mess needs cleaning up, that still matters.

and there is NO PROOF it's over, only the few posts by those now HOLDING the money...

that's the point, as is reINstatement, as is a REAL effort to change the wb'....

the SELF PROCLAIMED poster in this thread....

is no leader, no visionary, and with NO RECORD of ever helping the wb' GET to the next level.

as posted earlier the SCHeeeeME was or became a ruse and now the ruser is gonna serve the membership?

eye dunt think sew...

cheers
2air'
Valid points and an interesting story yet to unfold.

Got my slippers and popcorn.
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Old 08-28-2010, 02:45 PM   #866
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Valid points and an interesting story yet to unfold. Got my slippers and popcorn.
and bigdaddy m'bluez post is even more valid'er-est....

it is down right satisfactual!

it is good right down to the last notion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistral blue View Post
...How can the people involved with this be trusted now?
______

like ALL wb things the 3 key notions here are ...

follow the money, follow the money, follow the money.
__________

now go back and reconsider the story told with this IMAGINARY possible senario...

the elected wb' leadership has been dealing with a terrorist group of renegade wb'ers...

they decided to NEGOTIATE with the terrorist.

they GIVE the big T a seat at their table, and suspend NORMAL committee membership requirements...

they then operate ON this committee with the ever present threat...

that IF the terrorist aren't happy with the outcome, the legal action will resume?

while i have NO regard for the wb' bobbleheads,

it' is impossible to imagine them caving AS REPORTED to club hooligans, thugs and lawsuit mongers.

seriously does THAT really seem pausible?

and there should be MINUTES of meetings or plans or official wb' views on all this eventually.
_________

much has been made of the wb' legal expenses this year.

but they've had a LOT of stuff to deal with this year.

exactly HOW MUCH of the legal fees were for THIS ACTION SPECIFICALLY?

no doubt $ was spent on letters to leo, tim and others

and the EXPULSION would have been carefully crafted (costing more money)

but HOW MUCH was really spent dealing DIRECTLY with DW?

follow the money.



cheers
2air'
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Old 08-28-2010, 03:17 PM   #867
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What a cast of characters: IBT, renegade wb'ers, big T, various posters here. Let's lock 'em all (but me) in a room for several weeks (no bathrooms, no food or water) and see who's left alive.

Will it be the chief cannibal who becomes president of the WBCCI?

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Old 08-28-2010, 05:12 PM   #868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
and bigdaddy m'bluez post is even more valid'er-est....


but HOW MUCH was really spent dealing DIRECTLY with DW?

follow the money.



cheers
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From Bob Moss' report it appears that every Caravaner has contributed about $6.00 of their dues on this fiasco. It looks to me like lawsuits aren't benefitting anyone but the lawyers.
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Old 08-28-2010, 05:20 PM   #869
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Grand Master are the dates included? Are those legal expenses because of the member driven lawsuit or is it for cease and desist letters and legal fees paid to uphold Leo's expulsion as he tried to present his disallowed defense? I just wanted to be certain we were comparing the same dates and expenses. I know last year the report stated a very large amount for legal expenses but that predated the lawsuit. In this volunteer action each paid considerably more than that individually to help Leo fight the IBT's well funded legal team against him, which perhaps cost $6.00 each member to toss Leo, to write letters to Rob Baker to take Wally Byam's name from the Birthday Bash Celebration Rally, and to send Save Wally a letter to remove their logo and various other expenses such as that.

There shouldn't be any expense to the members of the WBCCI because of the lawsuit because it was witdrawn before it was served possibly before it was drawn.

Bob we need some concrete numbers and reports and contact numbers here to show and verify our work with the lawsuit. Without facts the situation is becoming confused as 2Air has pointed out.
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Old 08-28-2010, 05:30 PM   #870
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Fact the committee was not forced upon the IBT it was created by them to incorporate change and streamline the governing documents among other things.

************************************************** ********

"This will be a committee of the Executive Committee. It is being created to recommend to the Executive Committee a revision of the constitution and bylaws and policy. It will incorporate the information collected over the past several years and strive to detect and eliminate any inconsistency or any ambiguities and provide its recommendations to the executive committee for its action."

ANYONE know the real scope of this new committee????

One persons idea of the committee describes it with a lot of responsibility another response suggest the committee has been charted with making recommendations with no authority.

Is there any publication on the committee or is this all he said he said?
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Old 08-28-2010, 06:49 PM   #871
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yes there's more not sure I can disclose it.

I think I can, just want to check before hand.

Also the interpretation of that clause is not apparent as to what it means

more on that....
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Old 08-28-2010, 06:53 PM   #872
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Bob we need some concrete numbers and reports and contact numbers here to show and verify our work with the lawsuit.
Carol, not concrete, but about 2/3 of each contribution would be be returned.

As far as contact use PM or email
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Old 08-28-2010, 07:13 PM   #873
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Carol,

There may be legal expenses pertaining to a potential lawsuit—since some of the possible claims were telegraphed here, lawyers would be advising their client (WBCCI) as to possible exposure to losses and how to meet the challenge to avoid litigation. Individual members of the board and officers may have sought counsel to see if they were exposed to claims. The bylaws or other documents of the WBCCI may provide legal coverage for many claims for directors; most corporations do. Liability and Directors and Officers insurance may cover all or most of these legal expenses for the corporation and directors and officers.

It's possible insurance paid for it all. An examination of corporate documents would reveal information about insurance coverage and any itemized bills from lawyers for all the things that have happened this year. A member of the organization is permitted by most, if not all, state laws, to reasonable access to corporate records. Much useful information for reform could be discovered this way. One does not just walk into the office to do so—prior arrangements should be made, probably through lawyers. Expect opposition. Bring a portable copier.

There certainly are a lot of unknowns and even educated guesses may be very wrong about the events of the litigation (non)event. Since lack of transparency is part of the problem, this committee should do it's utmost and more to insure transparency. It should seek through many means (including this forum) member suggestions and comments.

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Old 08-28-2010, 07:20 PM   #874
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Let's clear it up then. Yes or No questions. (Please, no spin.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nasons View Post

During the course of preparing the law suit, Defend Wally/Metro NY was contacted by WBCCI. Discussions began, and eventually centered on withholding the lawsuit in exchange for appointing a representative from Defend Wally/Metro NY to sit on a newly created “By-Laws Revision Committee.” This five member Committee would be tasked with consolidating and incorporating changes to the club’s Bylaws and Constitution. Encouraged by this turn of events and intent upon having a seat at the table to institute positive change within WBCCI, Defend Wally/Metro NY has decided to withhold filing suit in the hope that changes in the club can be achieved amicably through this new Committee....


Sincerely,
Michele M. Curley
President Metro NY Unit
and on behalf of Defend Wally
Quote:
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Obviously, this lawsuit has not been settled.

I don't believe there were even any negotiations.
Was there a negotiation?

Was there a settlement or a deal made?
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Old 08-28-2010, 08:38 PM   #875
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The language is pretty clear garry

Quote:
Originally Posted by garry View Post

"This will be a committee of the Executive Committee. It is being created to recommend to the Executive Committee a revision of the constitution and bylaws and policy. It will incorporate the information collected over the past several years and strive to detect and eliminate any inconsistency or any ambiguities and provide its recommendations to the executive committee for its action."

ANYONE know the real scope of this new committee????
Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
yes there's more not sure I can disclose it.

I think I can, just want to check before hand.

Also the interpretation of that clause is not apparent as to what it means

more on that....
Everyone with a pulse knows that these folks have procedural meetings to change adjectives and punctuation marks in the Bylaws.
It is written plainly there exactly as it is supposed to be and nothing more.

LI Pets implies there is more to it... but you cannot just add whatever you want to the charter... it is stated in black & white in full.

Leo got it right, "strive" to detect and eliminate and then provide "recommendations"... which can then be summarily tossed aside and dismissed.

There is nothing there that mandates anything has to be acted upon and it's worded in that manner on purpose.

A go-nowhere, do-nothing committee that will be deep 6'd and left to wither away ignored. That's what has been purchased.
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Old 08-28-2010, 09:42 PM   #876
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Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
now the ruser is gonna serve the membership?

eye dunt think sew...

cheers
2air'
But who has the power to change this? No one here, that's for sure. They chose Bob for a reason, not necessarily for one we would consider positive. He's onboard there, that may be just exactly what they wanted.

It seems to me, again, that MetroNY folks need some direct communication with the contributors, to give them the information and specifics they need. They don't need to post it here, but those that gave $ deserve some answers, period.

It occurred to me that dissemination of the information being demanded may be an attorney-client privilege problem. What MetroNY et al were advised to do and why would no longer be privileged if it were made public, correct Gene and you other lawyers out there? Not to minimize contributors needs for answers, but........


Maggie
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Old 08-28-2010, 09:52 PM   #877
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Old 08-28-2010, 09:56 PM   #878
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Originally Posted by doug&maggie View Post
now the ruser is gonna serve the membership?

eye dunt think sew...

cheers
2air'


But who has the power to change this? No one here, that's for sure. They chose Bob for a reason, not necessarily for one we would consider positive. He's onboard there, that may be just exactly what they wanted.

It seems to me, again, that MetroNY folks need some direct communication with the contributors, to give them the information and specifics they need. They don't need to post it here, but those that gave $ deserve some answers, period.

Maggie
International President Norm Beu is authorized to remove or replace Committee members, should that become necessary.

Bob can resign.
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:30 PM   #879
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It seems to me, again, that MetroNY folks need some direct communication with the contributors, to give them the information and specifics they need.
What makes you think that didn't occur by Defend Wally, the rants you read here are silent about that, why?

Every contributor and those on DW mail list were emailed about 200 went out by Howie, last week.

He had one reply.
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:32 PM   #880
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it's a simple concept that continues to elude your grasp...

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug&maggie View Post
...They chose Bob for a reason, not necessarily for one we would consider positive...
it's really not about positive or negative reasons,

it's ALL about how/when and IF this happened as reported SO FAR.

once again THIS notion (that THEY did anything as reported here)...

assumes the story/events as posted here are an accurate reporting...

unless you personally have confirmed HOW this current position was reached ((with the ibt leaders))...

the POINT is still...

first hand knowledge/confirmation of what happened, how, by who and so on is lacking IN THIS THREAD.

VERIFY what did/not happen in the genesis of this committee and its members...

and YES folks who donated should do this,

rather than trusting to or ACCEPTING the events as reported here.

REread these questions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistral blue View Post
Was there a negotiation?

Was there a settlement or a deal made?
then find ANY sources in this thread (or anywhere else) that...

1. directly answer the questions
2. come from ANYone other that the poster in post #791 or ONE DW member.

independent confirmation of the story/events/process/proceedings is NEEDED.

don't rationalize based on a story version that MAY not be complete or accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug&maggie View Post
But who has the power to change this?...
you do, as does ANY dues pay'n wb' member...

have you contacted ANY ibt leader by mail/phone/online or by way of your unit officers?

the top brass does reply to the underlings, occasionally...

cheers
2air'
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