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Old 03-03-2010, 08:26 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie View Post
Um, Steve, better check your facts....Rob got a letter, he's not a member. ... Leo got a letter, he's not a member. ...
A lot of guys would probably ask themselves why Rob and Leo are no longer members, then they might even ask some questions about the timing of the letters vs the timing of the terminations of the memberships and the conditions under which the memberships ended.

Not everyone, certainly, but a lot of guys would.
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:26 PM   #62
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I did Eric and me schlepping across the yard in my polar fleece snugglesack broke right through that thin layer of ice and into the water at the street. LOL You made me look. I'll get you.
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:29 PM   #63
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I did Eric and me slepping across the yard in my polar fleece snugglesack broke right through that thin layer of ice and into the water at the street. LOL
Well I know that new 28 footer will help soften loss.
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:32 PM   #64
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almost... Brad and the AS will be here in the morning!! YIPEE!
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:47 PM   #65
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Don't follow your question, Rob left on his own Leo was expelled.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSHED View Post
A lot of guys would probably ask themselves why Rob and Leo are no longer members, then they might even ask some questions about the timing of the letters vs the timing of the terminations of the memberships and the conditions under which the memberships ended.

Not everyone, certainly, but a lot of guys would.
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Old 03-03-2010, 09:08 PM   #66
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Don't follow your question, Rob left on his own Leo was expelled.
Sorry. Was unclear.
Post 13 was in my mind too at the time:
(quoted text from Buttercup) : ... [an oxymoron is, to me] a non-member questioning the validity of a lawsuit. If you are still not a member of WBCCI, why would it matter to you if a group of people bring action against the club leadership?
...."

Silvertwinkie, responding to Buttercup: "Leo is not a member either ... so I fail to see the connection."
My response, probably at the wrong post, is that yeah, Leo's interested. The very circumstances under which Leo became an ex-member are cited in the opening post as one of the reasons for the action. ST really ought to be able to distinguish between a member who feels he was unjustly terminated and someone who's never joined. At least that's how it seems to me.
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Old 03-03-2010, 10:20 PM   #67
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It seems odd to me that a person who has really been an outspoken advocate FOR WBCCI but can not find it within himself to actually ante up for a membership disparages someone who was a member in good standing for years and has done a lot of good for the club (like the WBCCI Unit Guide and served as a president of a unit and has put together rallies for the club). It is like calling the kettel black but then denying you ever said anything at all.
Maybe Twink is a shill for WBCCI, and perhaps he is waiting for a gift membership for all of his hard work over at the forums - I don't know. All I know is that Leo Garvey has been a member of WBCCI in good standing for longer than Twink has NOT been a member in good standing.
Leo has contributed in areas that are unappreciated by folks and quite frankly, I think he has every right to challenge his expulsion in court and has a right to call into question all aspects if the WBCCI's leaders actions in that venue.
Twink - you want to really be a proponent for WBCCI - become a member, the proof is in the pudding. The longer you sit on the sidelines criticizing those who have actually had the courage to jump in the pool, the more you look like a shill. Write that check, pick that unit and join in. Otherwise, quit criticizing those who have worked hard FOR the club but were kicked out.
To me you look like someone who is trying to give the impression that you are part of the clique but are not. You truly have No Dog In This Fight.
How does the saying go??? Why buy the cow......
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Old 03-04-2010, 05:35 AM   #68
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AS this discussion goes on , I think I will sit quietly, putting my faith in those organizing the lawsuit and trust they are getting good advice.

The scarey part is this is what I did with the WBCCI management for over 30 years and look where we are now

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Old 03-04-2010, 05:52 AM   #69
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Exclamation Cast your vote -Not

Someone forward this to us


Unit's Voting Rights:
Units and regions draft legislation that would guarantee a unit's ability to be cast their votes annually. This effort was met by an IP, having 45 days notice of such efforts, calling both motions 'out of order' to the shock and dismay of all that would have expected the leadership to work with its members for progress.

Discrimination against Members: This administration blocked mere members from access to the membership for international elections. The IP created a new established custom that did not allow those that could not be present at the Mid-Winter IBT meeting to be considered for international office.

Nor would the IP allow those individuals access to the membership in free, open, and fair elections.

Delegates meeting


Allowing non-credentialed and uninvited members to participate in the Delegates Meeting in violation of WBCCI Bylaws and Roberts Rules of Order (specifically, members and chairmen of the IBT and Executive Committee sharing the floor, making and withdrawing motions, etc.)

Harassment of Delegates on the floor, during the Delegates Meeting, by non-credentialed members in the form of heckling & jeering.

Is this the way you want your club run?
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Old 03-04-2010, 05:53 AM   #70
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Hail to the disenfranchised , down trodden and the disgruntled. Lawyers love you people.Thats our bread and butter.The manor from the heavens let it pour, we need more lawsuits like the Wbcci.Win or Lose we get paid. Yours truly,from a well heeled, well oiled legal defense fund.
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Old 03-04-2010, 06:05 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup;818423
To me you look like someone who is trying to give the impression that you are part of the [B
clique[/B] but are not. You truly have No Dog In This Fight.
How does the saying go??? Why buy the cow......
Ok?! Any other advise?
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Old 03-04-2010, 07:54 AM   #72
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Ok?! Any other advise?
YES. As a stated Philanthropist in training, per your profile, you might consider stepping back for a while, taking a few more courses, and reevaluate the goals of such a profession.

I have no problem with anyone coming into this thread and adding constructive comments. I think we, the founders of this effort, clearly asked for it on the Defend Wally site defendwally.org

We have stated our goals, the correction of several questionable practices now being administered by the Clubs Leadership. If you wish to defend any or all of those practices come right ahead and advise us of our error. However your attempts to derail this effort will not. Iit may cause those members of the Forum that look into your clandestine profile an lack of Membership begin to question your motives.
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Old 03-04-2010, 08:00 AM   #73
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YES. As a stated Philanthropist in training, per your profile, you might consider stepping back for a while, taking a few more courses, and reevaluate the goals of such a profession.

I have no problem with anyone coming into this thread and adding constructive comments. I think we, the founders of this effort, clearly asked for it on the Defend Wally site defendwally.org

We have stated our goals, the correction of several questionable practices now being administered by the Clubs Leadership. If you wish to defend any or all of those practices come right ahead and advise us of our error. However your attempts to derail this effort will not. Iit may cause those members of the Forum that look into your clandestine profile an lack of Membership begin to question your motives.
Anything else?

I think this is getting personal now.... I'm not trying to derail anything. What could I possibly do? I have opinions, I didn't realize we started suppressing opinions that didn't fit the mold. Must be my bad.
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Old 03-04-2010, 08:06 AM   #74
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If this lawsuit fails and non AS mohos are allowed eventually, just think of the THOR made junk that might be allowed into the rallys. I might be able to afford to join again. zz
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:36 AM   #75
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If this lawsuit fails and non AS mohos are allowed eventually, just think of the THOR made junk that might be allowed into the rallys. I might be able to afford to join again. zz
I can see it now....a 1988 Dutchmen at the International
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:41 AM   #76
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In some situations the mods have asked the TAC or SaveWally folks to recognize the distinction of their issues and try not to cross over to other separate-content WBCCI threads. I'd like gently to step in here and point out that a hijack to oft-repeated arguments is occurring here. It would be great if this thread steered back into it's own lane -- the WBCCI Board Lawsuit.

Please PM me on this one post if you are concerned; keep it out of this thread ... a hijack I don't want start myself.

Thanks
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Old 03-04-2010, 03:55 PM   #77
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For those of you that may be considering the "wait and see approach" you will be happy to know that President Tom C has proposed major changes in his March New Letter.

Rally meal will be buffet style.

Dress will be causal at the unit Presidents dinner

A 1/3 reduction in the cost of gifts to the unit Presidents

A reduction in the number of trophies given out. Old ones from when Mexico was in the Club will be reworked for additional savings

A $7.00 savings on the metal plates to be given out.

Future trophies will have Plastic bases

The Pocono Special is NOT a WBCCI rally and those attending will not be covered by WBCCI insurance

Oh yes they still need a chairman for the Beanbag Basketball game.

Now if that doesn't tip you to one side of the fence or the other I think you are destine to be stuck there forever.

While these may seam to be milestone advances in the management of the Club they are not quite what we had in mind when we set out on this course.
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Old 03-04-2010, 04:44 PM   #78
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Arbitration

Hello everyone, My name is Robert (Bob) Thompson II and I would like to offer a solution to this entire mess. But first some personal comments that should be considered along with my suggested solution. When I was elected as the Region 1 President, I was bound to represent the members and Units of that Region. When Motorhome issues came up, I provided the region members with a presentation on the issue. It was said to be “fair and balanced” even by the International Motorhome Committee Chairman. I maintained an open mind until100% (and a very large majority of the members) informed me (and later voted) that they were against the motion. I was the only vote cast against the motion when it came before a special meeting of the IBT. I did not vote my personal feelings, but I did vote the desires of the vast majority of the regions membership. Later One of the regions units brought up the Proxy Representation issue. At the annual region 1 Meeting, the Unit Presidents voted to move forward and submit a motion to the IBT. I appointed a three member committee with representatives from three different Units. That committee prepared the Proxy motion and such was submitted to the units for membership vote. 100 % of the units voted for the motion and it was sent to Headquarters. I was bound to support it which I did to the best of my ability knowing that these two issues would cost me any chance of being nominated for an International office. However it was my obligation to represent the members of Region 1 and I did so. My personal opinions did not interfere with my duties and obligation to the members. Some may recall that at Jerry Collins’ mid-winter meeting I spoke out very strongly against any change to the nominating system (even though that committee did not nominate me for International third vice president) because I believed that doing so was for the good of the club.

Ok, history lesson is over, now my solution which I shall put forth in the form of an open letter to the WBCCI Leadership and to Mr. Leo Garvey, et al as follows.

To: WBCCI President Tom Collier
All Members of the IBT
Mr. Leo Garvey, et al

Subject: Arbitration

If the current dispute results in the above parties going to court, there may be no winner(s). Such actions may harm the club more then is realized. The loss of membership may be staggering. Such losses may well bankrupt the club financially, not from court costs because all know that the club has insurance to protect the officers from such suits, but because the loss of membership will be very, very costly.

It is suggested that all parties be agreeable to arbitration with me as the arbitrator. Why me? Because I understand the problems on both sides of the fence. All parties can be assured that I will be “fair and balanced” I would arbitrate with an open mind and seek to resolve the issues in a manner that is best for the club.

Thank you for your considerations in this matter.

Robert (Bob) Thompson II
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Old 03-04-2010, 05:17 PM   #79
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Bob

Thank you for your offer. My hesitation, and I am not speaking for all involved, is that you are assuming the Leadership of this Club is honorable and would respect any results of such arbitration. I do not share that assumption based on past performance.

I think the commanding presence of a Federal Court room will instill honor in all in attendance.

However you should not be discouraged from pursuing your approach solely on my position as the Leadership have got to be brought under control before the they drive this Club into bankruptcy.
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Old 03-04-2010, 05:29 PM   #80
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Bob,

This is an interesting thought. My first question is this - the information about what is in question is published at the DefendWally site. What would the IBT bring to the table?
I, like HowiE, am hesitant by nature of the experiences I have witnessed within the leadership core, that the leaders would even agree to such a proposal. Lets see what they say - they know what these members are saying.
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