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Old 06-03-2010, 12:24 PM   #581
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Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
One other point that you should be aware of is WBCCI has not reached out to anyone from Defend Wally or our attorney to discuss resolving this lawsuit to date.

I may be missing something here, but how does one reach out to resolve a lawsuit that has yet to be filed or shown to exist? Moreover, if WBCCI is watching this as closely as you suggest, I am sure they'd be receptive to the phone ringing inbound. Not everyone has to bow to you and your cronies Bob. IIRC, you are one of a few leading this charge. You and your legal team could also pick up a phone too.


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Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
Wait until you read the complaint then it will be clear as to how the suit will change things

.

That's just it Bob, we've all been waiting for you and your henchmen since 03-02-2010, 11:14 AM the time stamp of the OP of this thread. A quarter of a year now.


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Originally Posted by Goin camping

The theory of "We have to destroy it to save it." .


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Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
Defend Wally never took that position
.


Though clearly it's not the stated position, in fact that is precisely what very well may happen.


In the end this pretty much sums it up best:

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Originally Posted by hampstead38 View Post
These long-term members are unhappy enough to share their feelings quietly or "one-to-one" but they lack the--whatever--to express these feelings publicly? I apparently underestimated the mystical power of the red numbers.

In the words of the immortal Inigo Montoya, let me sum up.

The alleged lawsuit--which doesn't really exist yet and which the IBT has promised to fight if it does--is representing not only the shouting critics but a secret number of whispering malcontents. The exact number of people will only known when "Leo" finishes the map and it will only be shared with holders of the secret decoder ring. The lawsuit, if filed, must be funded. If funded, it must be successful. If successful, it must radically change the leadership structure of the IBT in a way that not only satisfies a majority of members but resolves the other issues with the club including the budget deficit.

Somehow, Bob's involvement is beginning to make sense to me.

...and before you send me another PM Bob or thank me publicly for bumping the thread, I'll simply say you're welcome in advance so that the 15-20 active folks who really care and post here can get some new things to grin about...but wait, you and your crew have me on the ignore list, so I guess this is all for not and prob drops the 15-20 folks down to 5-8!

Time to put up or shut up bud...plain and simple. If yer gonna do it, do it, but you talk in circles with ZERO action to date. I have no doubt you'll eventually do something. How grandiose and successful, only time will actually tell, but folks love an underdog story, which yours clearly falls into that category. Until then, all I hear and see from you and your crowd is this Bob:



You and your crew playing Kahn and substituting the Enterprise on the view screen with a WBCCI logo!
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Old 06-03-2010, 12:42 PM   #582
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Another point about litigation. People who bring lawsuits are often angry—sometimes with good reason, sometimes because they are angry people who see slights and insults that aren't there or would be ignored by most people.

It's okay to be properly angry, it's a normal response to being treated unfairly, but being angry means reason is compromised. That's why it is advised not be be your own lawyer (or spokesman for that matter). A lawyer's job is to act with reason and not adopt the anger of the client. Sometimes it is beneficial for a lawyers to act angry, but not to be angry.

I think it would be beneficial to the prospective litigants to consider that and ask their lawyer to do the posting or just to let any possible posts to sit for a few days while you consider whether they would advance your cause.

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Old 06-03-2010, 01:03 PM   #583
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Gene

As often your comments are quite insightful and well intended.

Yes this thread is an open discussion and yes some on both sides are angry. Many are angry have attempted to deal with the problems of the Club through the narrowly defined avenues intended to stop and change within the Club. I can't speak for all on either side as to how they will conduct themselves once this is in court. However there will be a filter in place, namely the Lawyer, that if chosen well will contribute the restraint you mention.

I started this thread and given the chance I will start another thread clearly dedicated to conveying accurate information, not disclosing anything still before the court, as it becomes available. It is ashamed that such disclosure will not available directly from the Leadership.
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Old 06-03-2010, 01:26 PM   #584
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Another point about litigation. People who bring lawsuits are often angry—sometimes with good reason, sometimes because they are angry people who see slights and insults that aren't there or would be ignored by most people.

It's okay to be properly angry, it's a normal response to being treated unfairly, but being angry means reason is compromised.

Gene
And with that said because there are people that are upset and angry, being angry and treating others poorly because you are angry only means this thread will be shut down and restrictions will be placed on users that can not control how they post.

So a recap of items that we will not tolerate -
Name calling
Threats of physical or other violence
Flaming
Baiting
Or other not nice posting.

The above list is not inclusive of everything. And if you are not sure if the post is NOT NICE then error on the side of better behavior and don't post.

We are up for an open discussion. We will not tolerate poor behavior. Either in posting to threads or PMing using the AirForums PM system. Thanks for keeping it passionate and with courtesy.

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Old 06-03-2010, 05:21 PM   #585
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Since you're a non member, I need not
I'm a member send it to me
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Old 06-03-2010, 06:36 PM   #586
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Have no doubt that members support this and that funds were collected and that a lawyer is hired and on this. Also have no doubt you will all receive open updates when they are available. I think the plaintifs have been as open as possible, far more responsive to you than the other side. Am I correct? Twink tap your foot, sound your horn wiggle your injustice but it is coming when it comes. We certainly wouldn't keep anyone dancing on a string. When we know, you will soon know and that is the truth. Now go ask the IBT where their answers are. Oh that's right, they need a special forum so they won't be attacked, oh wait they have one. Don't hold your breath for their side of the issues. We are still waiting for leadership to particpate on the new forums. But then you could be more cordial for the side that tries hard to oblige answering your questions. I am sure you would give up and go home like everyone else did on WBCCI forums if you knew that you would not receive attention. Thank heavens for free expression and Air Forums!!
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Old 06-03-2010, 07:16 PM   #587
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I'm an ex-member and don't want to be an ex. I'm an Airstreamer. However, I am also an accountant by profession and it offends me that the management of an old, respected organization is willing to spend down its capital for the benefit of those who are charged with its trust. (Running a deficit budget without investing in future increases in income is, by definition, spending down your capital. Unless, of course, you are the government and can print your own money).

I am also offended by its misuse of a wonderful communication device, the wbcci website. Given its rigorous moderation (a misuse of the word, if ever there was one) members and non-members who have concerns are not permitted to publish, much less persons (such as myself) who would like to express concerns without the expectation of being supermoderated away.

So I remain sad; i have contributed to the lawsuit because to pay my dues to wbcci would be interpreted as a vote for the current management.

Pat
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Old 06-03-2010, 07:58 PM   #588
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The previous post was the most dispassionate and logical statement of what's going wrong that I have seen posted here, period.

Thank you, Pat.
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Old 06-07-2010, 04:27 PM   #589
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three questions:

Has anyone counted how many people have posted to this thread? Take me, Hamp, Gene, Silver twink, pm clemore, and Rob out of the count, for we are those dreaded "non members with no pony in this show". Don't forget Leo, he is a non member too, though he wants his pony back in for some odd(to me at least) reason... How many individuals ya got there?

and...

Does that constitute a sweeping majority pushing this forward?

and ....

Does the NY Metro Unit REALLY have 100% support within it's ranks for this suit, or are there some disgusted by what is being forced upon them?
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Old 06-07-2010, 09:26 PM   #590
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Has anyone counted how many people have posted to this thread?
Having little else to do this evening, I did. The answer is 73.

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Old 06-08-2010, 03:48 AM   #591
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That 73 is all those that have posted, including members of the club with Mr Byam's name in it, former members, and those that just piped in to say that this thread proves to them they are happy they never got involved. It is the actual number of actual members that is the eye opener.

The response to my earlier questions can hopefully be found on this new thread that Bob started. Not sure why it was not answered here.
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Old 06-09-2010, 09:52 AM   #592
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Public knowledge

I want this to be publicly known.. when all this started, I was asked if I would provide the information about my Cease and Desist letter that I received from the WBCCI by LI Pets...

My reply.. "Oh yeah, you mean the Bash.. if you want to use it, go ahead.. I could care less - I've moved on"

I've since changed my mind and want to be no part of this lawsuit any longer and last night I asked if those involved would remove me and my data from the information they are generating for the suit.. I was told by LI PETS in an email,

"Can't unring that bell at this point."

My reply.. " It's my data and my name, and if I don't want it used, and I don't, then you have no right. Sorry" . I also mentioned that if it is used, I'll have to contact my lawyer too.... but I'm not a lawyer happy guy (as they just take all your money) like some people are....

In a follow up email, this is what I sent..

"...... but now I've changed my mind and it's my data. As a courtesy, please honor my request. We don't need this to get nasty either. I have moved on, and I don't want to be associated in this lawsuit in any way."

With no reply as of yet...

I'm only posting to this thread as I just want it publicly known (and usually, they could care less with non member opinions - as I now see)... that I NO LONGER SUPPORT THIS LAWSUIT OR ANYTHING IT IS ABOUT

There, I got that off my chest... this whole thing is JUST TOXIC.. everything associated with it is... and I for one, DO NOT NEED IT.... Yes, I've moved on.

R/s,
Rob
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Old 06-09-2010, 05:20 PM   #593
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The info is a letter from WBCCI's law firm to Rob, it was given to the Defend Wally lawyers weeks ago with your permission.

You were never going to become a named party so relax, it's just an exhibit that could have been obtained in discovery.

The real reason for your outburst is not the letter as we know.
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Old 06-09-2010, 10:32 PM   #594
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I want this to be publicly known.. when all this started, I was asked if I would provide the information about my Cease and Desist letter that I received from the WBCCI by LI Pets...

My reply.. "Oh yeah, you mean the Bash.. if you want to use it, go ahead.. I could care less - I've moved on"

I've since changed my mind and want to be no part of this lawsuit any longer and last night I asked if those involved would remove me and my data from the information they are generating for the suit.. I was told by LI PETS in an email,

"Can't unring that bell at this point."

My reply.. " It's my data and my name, and if I don't want it used, and I don't, then you have no right. Sorry" . I also mentioned that if it is used, I'll have to contact my lawyer too.... but I'm not a lawyer happy guy (as they just take all your money) like some people are....

In a follow up email, this is what I sent..

"...... but now I've changed my mind and it's my data. As a courtesy, please honor my request. We don't need this to get nasty either. I have moved on, and I don't want to be associated in this lawsuit in any way."

With no reply as of yet...

I'm only posting to this thread as I just want it publicly known (and usually, they could care less with non member opinions - as I now see)... that I NO LONGER SUPPORT THIS LAWSUIT OR ANYTHING IT IS ABOUT

There, I got that off my chest... this whole thing is JUST TOXIC.. everything associated with it is... and I for one, DO NOT NEED IT.... Yes, I've moved on.

R/s,
Rob
Good! Whatever your motivation. It's better for you to be camping and laughing than worrying and stressing. I wish you smooth roads and level spots and I hope to meet you across the campfire.

Cheers
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Old 06-11-2010, 08:47 AM   #595
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Wink wbcci forum

I just found these videos on UTube explaining or proving how folks are blocked from access to the clubs forum





I can't see how it can be denied.


.
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:40 PM   #596
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Since you're a non member, I need not
I'm a paid up member so show me. Either in Pm or here.
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Old 06-18-2010, 11:55 AM   #597
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Wow no word from anyone in a week. Does this mean the lawsuit has gone away?
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:11 PM   #598
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No such luck. It is in detailed stage of the works
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Old 06-24-2010, 07:53 AM   #599
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The "Appeal Hearing Board" has upheld our expulsion from the club.
Leo,

So sorry to hear this as you are a wonderful Rally compadre and have been an powerful, constructive, and effective voice within the WBCCI.

See you at Pocono! Airstreamers start your engines!

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Old 06-24-2010, 09:37 AM   #600
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Just a quick brief update...

The "Appeal Hearing Board" has upheld our expulsion from the club. Of course, as an international corporation, they were intent on holding their hearing at their attorney's offices in Ohio which was not acceptable on any front. We did not attend.

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Sorry to hear of the outcome, Leo, but not surprised. They seemed intent on ousting you, and those in power (anywhere) generally do what they want.

Real accountability is rarely obtained internally, in my experience.

Take care,

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