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Old 09-25-2006, 06:00 PM   #161
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klevan

Sorry for the diversion. I am serious about knowing more about your progress with your new Unit. Would love to come to NM or anywhere in the Four Corners and hang out with you.
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Old 09-25-2006, 06:08 PM   #162
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David, I suggest that the ad hominem is not a good practice to engage in.

I am wondering if your comment is eschewing the idea of trying to learn and understand. It sure sounds like it. If so, why?
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Old 09-25-2006, 06:10 PM   #163
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Positive consequences of disapproval are ...

Bryan:

Since you seem to understand and approve of his action, could you please list here for me all the positive consequences flowing from Region 11's First V.P., Chester Haughawaut's, disapproval of a one year provisional charter for the proposed Four Corner's Camping Unit? Thank you!
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Old 09-25-2006, 06:16 PM   #164
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I too am not happy with the R11 VP's rejection of the FCU. I am also apalled at some of the comments being made by "old school" WBCCI leadership.

Quote:
In this case, it wasn't a group of folks who had a need to organize their activities but rather a group of discontents with no track record who wanted to organize without demonstrated need for that organization.
The above quote comes from the WBCCI forum area.

I was to host the first rally for the new FCU. I would like to go ahead with the rally if I can get enough interest. Look for a thread in the near future to spell out the details for this event.
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Old 09-25-2006, 07:06 PM   #165
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First Phantom Unit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by azflycaster
I was to host the first rally for the new FCU. I would like to go ahead with the rally if I can get enough interest. Look for a thread in the near future to spell out the details for this event.
Hi Azflycaster:

As you know, there are many ghost towns in the Southwest. Well, in that vein, the officially disapproved Four Corners Camping Unit can proclaim its existence effective as of the disapproval date, September 21, 2006, and operate as the first WBCCI "Phantom Unit" in the nation. Or maybe it should just wear its fate and operate as a "formally disapproved" unit. After all, the prospective new unit members are not the losers; the WBCCI is the loser. So I say "Fun Forward" and let the unit propser!

Some wise travel trailer club may eventually come along and try to sign up the new unit. Who will be the first on the doorstep: the Tin Can Tourists? The Good Sam Club? Some other club or one yet to be formed?

Maybe we can call ourselves the "Chesternuts" in honor of our liberator and wear enlarged acorn caps as headgear. Our theme song will be crooned by Nat King Cole on the Ipod while we nip a little Jack Frost. Can Chip and Dale be our mascots? So much to talk about, so Let's Party! Keep that first Rally date on the calendar, Azfc, and tell me when and where to quietly appear. See you down the trail.
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Old 09-25-2006, 07:14 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 47WeeWind
Bryan:

Since you seem to understand and approve of his action, could you please list here for me all the positive consequences flowing from Region 11's First V.P., Chester Haughawaut's, disapproval of a one year provisional charter for the proposed Four Corner's Camping Unit? Thank you!
Fred. thanks for beating me to the asking while I was mowing the yard.

Bryan, please.....let's hear all the positives consequences flowing from towing the party line on this one. And do educate us so that we might "learn" why we are so ignorant.
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Old 09-25-2006, 07:20 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dscluchfc
Sheesh...this all reminds me of the years I spent up to my neck in the politics of running a political action committee for a professional organization of 5000 members.

All the dang mavens and their By-Laws fights and turf wars over what could be done and not done, and what could be supported under "proper" interpretation and what couldn't, and who was included and who was excluded....who was compliant and honored tradition and who didn't, and who were rebels and who weren't....labeling and blame fixing, and king building.....and constant STRATEGIZING and vote counting, and finger wetting, and monitoring over EVERY decision that I made for years trying to move an organization out of "the way it had always been done" into greater effiency and self reliance.

Many times when I saw things that needed change, I would meet with my Board to recommend a course of action, and all I got was resistance....and sometimes after getting all the resistance, I would just issue executive order as CEO and LEAD ANYWAY.

And sometimes, organizations deserve to DIE. No less than TWO YEARS after my final day as Chairman and CEO, due to term limits, my successors turned leadership tails and ran, outsourcing the administrative functions from Austin, to the National office 1500 miles away from the people they serve. Membership has declined precipitiously since then and the organization will die in due course.....after a storied 100 yr plus history.

I say all that to say that in picking your battles to fight, the WBCCI must also pick the battles THEY fight.

Submit the NAME you want for the unit.
Call it "The Four Corners Camping Unit" if you want to, and leave off any mention of a state if you want to....if they don't know there is only ONE FOUR CORNERS in the USA, maybe they are not as travelled as they should be.
IF WBCCI wants to deny the charter and not accept the dues money, they are cutting off their nose to spite their faces....
Then answer the question: Will the WBCCI survive long term fighting to keep people out this way??...and is that what you want to be a part of???

Organizations need to adapt....but most of the time they die instead.
WBCCI desparately NEEDS an innovative by-laws committee to trash what they have, and re-invent themselves.....but they would have to fight every old-timer in the organization that does NOT want change to do it.

I am tired and rambling and should just probably erase all this and not post it.

These are the types of battles I do NOT want to fight because I have spent many professional hours fighting these type political battles within a political action committee where they were amplified because it was professional politics at stake.

Fighting these kind of battles in search of relaxation away from professional pressures is not my idea of recreation.

I may ulitmately decide to pay WBCCI dues through this newly chartered unit, because it would meet my needs much better than the local Lubbock TX unit, but my tolerance for by-laws fighting and exclusiveness for the sake of "that is the way we have always done it and we don't want to change", over inclusiveness and moving forward, is limited.
I think what I said 5 weeks ago still makes sense, especially in light of the Chester Edict.
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Old 09-25-2006, 07:24 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dscluchfc
And never underestimate the power of stupid people in committees.
What I said 8 weeks ago makes sense too.
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Old 09-25-2006, 07:42 PM   #169
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Quote:
Since you seem to understand and approve of his action
is that called getting one's exercise by jiumping to conclusions and related activity?

What I advocate is reading what was actually written and not what you think might have been said. What I advocate is being open to the arguments made and where they came from.

To me the key is one I see often. That is making a lot of talk but not doing the walk. It is making a pretense at the walk so as to not loose face from all the talk.

There is no sense duplicating something that already exists. There is no sense in expending effort when it is not needed.

WBCCI has enough trouble with a lot of talk not creating much action. The action I suggest considering here is that of first demonstrating the need for organization before trying to organize. I think that is worth more that it has been given in this thread.
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Old 09-25-2006, 07:51 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leipper
(snip) There is no sense duplicating something that already exists. There is no sense in expending effort when it is not needed.

WBCCI has enough trouble with a lot of talk not creating much action. The action I suggest considering here is that of first demonstrating the need for organization before trying to organize. I think that is worth more that it has been given in this thread.
What a good number of folks are saying is that they have indeed tried to make things work with the exisiting NM unit and the western Colorado unit. The results were less than satisfactory. They quit those units, and they won't rejoin. There's the need.

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Old 09-25-2006, 07:59 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azflycaster
I too am not happy with the R11 VP's rejection of the FCU. I am also apalled at some of the comments being made by "old school" WBCCI leadership.



The above quote comes from the WBCCI forum area.

I was to host the first rally for the new FCU. I would like to go ahead with the rally if I can get enough interest. Look for a thread in the near future to spell out the details for this event.
If you guys start something can I be an affiliate member. If you aren't WBCCI then can I be a real member even if you aren't a WACCI club? I'ld be honored to pay the dues and I think I know more than a few other yankees who believe in people more than organizations who would also join. Serve it up and they will come.

I WACCI R U

New rule for WACCI units. You can be a secret WACCI Unit and not tell anyone.
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Old 09-25-2006, 08:04 PM   #172
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"The action I suggest considering here is that of first demonstrating the need for organization before trying to organize. I think that is worth more that it has been given in this thread."__________________

I have been an outspoken critic of the WBCCI based on personal contact with some members, reading the BB and watching people use this forum to air their dirty laundry. The chances of my joining were between little and none until the idea of a FCU came up.

I wonder if Chester is familar with that old Groucho Marx quote, "I wouldn't want to belong to a club that would accept me as a member".

It's beyond my capacity to understand the hidebound ways of WBCCI leadership. Didn't I see a thread show the declining numbers here?

Way to go Chester.
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Old 09-25-2006, 08:39 PM   #173
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Bryan: I will try again for a clear, direct and simple statement from you. Would you please list here for me all the positive consequences flowing from Region 11's First V.P., Chester Haughawaut's, disapproval of a one year provisional charter for the proposed Four Corners Camping Unit? Thank you.
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Old 09-25-2006, 08:47 PM   #174
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And, I would like to know by response from Bryan:
"What are the losses/gains - suffered/achieved by Region 11 & WBCCI for allowing the Provisional Charter of the FCU vs. the losses/gains - suffered/achieved by WBCCI & Region 11 for disallowing the Provisional Charter of the FCU?
Compare and contrast....
(My old Senior Administrative Policy Prof from Harvard would be so proud of this question)....
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Old 09-25-2006, 09:09 PM   #175
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hi ken...

sorry to read about the denial...are you really all that surprised?

i'm not.

having seen how long it took to accept mohos, argosy, b vans and so on...

are you not aware of how hard it was for vac to fully form?

from a strategic perspective it was a mistake to propose the 'new' unit in anything but the traditional way...10 or more members...yadda, yadda.

including any reference to the forums was a hugh mistake.

so too was openly planning here on the forum...where not everyone reading is supportive of these efforts....

should have all been done via private messages or email...

or a camping trip or 2...

some of the points are just goofy, as others have noted...but don't ignore these points...

they provide much insight into wb officer thinking...

some other observations...

'no compelling reason to approve'...do the reasons for a new unit need to be compelling?

while there is vague but valid reference to stealing members from other units...there is NO mention of the mal members who were planning to finally join a unit....isn't that a good thing? or those ready to drop out completely if not for a new unit?

ken are you sure some vac folks who are wb officers may not have opposed this new unit...and said so quietly?

65gt...watch it, we are agreeing way too much...5-6 regions max...i agree.

another reason mals will not get a vote...the first order of business would be a national mal unit without a local geographic basis..

and here fred is your real reason why the proposal was denied and the 'positive consequences' of the denial (from a wb view)...

***approval would have lead to other proposals for other inventive units....cyber units, non traditional units, mal units, national units and so on....setting this denial precedent....will effective kill or slow other proposals for forum related units...


cheers
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Old 09-25-2006, 09:54 PM   #176
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I think that WBCCI (ala Region 11) is trying to pack all members into one mold here and it isn't working. I love the (incorrect) comment that people meet face to face, etc... baloney! With so many WBCCI members out and about caravanning or full-timing, how do they do that??? How do they stay in touch? I know the president of our unit spent months at a time away from our homebase but coordinated and communicated via email (and phone where available) to get things done. And that seemed to work just fine.

I can say from experience that in our Burning Man activities we conduct 100% of our business (*February through September) on the net. The only face to face we have is on the playa for the 2 weeks we are there. The rest is all net or phone (via Skype).

There is absolutely no harm in a virtual unit. In fact it can only do good. If it fails the WBCCI is out nothing. If it is rejected outwardly, as was done, it would surely mean more lost memberships. My question is this... Would WBCCI garner more or less memberships by the formation of this unit??? I bet more. I bet that it becomes one of the biggest units in the WBCCI. It fits so many peoples lifestyles and caters to the younger demographic and of people on the road.

The Region 11 response sounds suspiciously like one who is a firm believer in the Luddite Society (somebody should make these poor people a web site - more people might join) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite. It seems like there is no belief in the viability of a virtual unit of sorts. But WBCCI better close it's eyes to the WDCU.... Because they are doing a brisk business in exactly that fashion.

FCU, I lend my support to you as visionaries of change. So much so that I will donate web space and assistance if needed in getting off the ground to your effort (I know you have a site set up right now but if needed, that offer stands). Let people sign up to be members and ante up a couple of bucks for a membership. Lets see where it goes... Sounds like you would have 30 members already (including ours as associates if in WBCCI or as charter if not). That is better than many of the units already in existence. What say ye????
Leo, Nicely put!!
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Old 09-25-2006, 10:01 PM   #177
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Greetings 2air...

And as usual, thanks for your clearheaded analysis.
You are correct on all points of course, but not entirely right.

To me it would not have been "right" to be anything less than honest in explaining the philosophy and objectives of the proposed Four Corners Unit, but it would have been the "correct" way to garner approval.

Open discussion on these Forums was the "right" way to foster open discussion, but it was not the correct way to garner approval.

I am convinced that postive outcomes will flow from this defeated attempt to transform the WBBCI and breath some life into it. We know more about the entrenched leadership that Leipper embodies and personifies on these forums each day. Notice how he attacks me and my friends who inspired this effort. He accuses us of "bitching" and "talking the talk but not walking the walk." So defensive, so rude, and so wrong is he as he revels in our defeat.

I have owned three Airstreams
I have belonged to the NM Unit since the fall of 2001.
I was 2nd VP for a year and 1st VP for a short time before I was "uninstalled."
I was Region 11 Contributing Editor to the Blue Beret

Ken Johansen has owned three or four Airstreams.
He was 2d VP and 1st VP of the Colorado Unit before he was "uninstalled."
He is a devoted Boy Scout leader and a successful CPA.

Jerry Heald owns two Airstreams
He was the Membership Chairman and Trustee of the NM Unit
He is a rally planner extraordinaire
He is also a retired nuclear physicist

Oh, and me; I spent 27 years talking the talk and walking the walk in the USMC advancing to the rank of colonel. But then, I know nothing about leadership or organizational dynamics.
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Old 09-25-2006, 10:17 PM   #178
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Ken - Can you explain to me why the Regional 1st VP made the decision and not the Regional President? The WBCCI constitution clearly states:

Quote:
Article XI Club Organization
Section 2
Applications for Unit Charters shall be made in writing to the Board of Trustees through the President of the Region in whose geographic area the proposed unit seeks to organize. The Region President may, upon being satisfied that the proposed Unit has complied with the minimum qualifications, as fixed by said Board, issue to such proposed Unit a provisional charter. Any such charter so issued shall terminate on the Fourth of July next following the date of its issuance unless sooner terminated by action of said Board in granting or denying such application. A Provisional Unit may elect officers, collect Unit and International dues and engage in usual Unit activities, but until issued a permanent Unit Charter shall not be entitled to vote or otherwise participate in the Annual Delegates Meeting.
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Old 09-25-2006, 10:22 PM   #179
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Ken,
My hat is off to you, Ken Johansen, and Jerry Heald for your efforts. I intentionally laid low on this one, not bringing the Texas connection into the mix for fear of backlash in the approval process for not being confined to the geographic description. Obviously, that now matters not.
I spent 28 years walking the walk and talking the talk of the professional association for life insurance and financial service professionals rising to become Chairman and CEO of the Political Action Committee for Texas.
So, I too believe that I know a thing ot two about organizational dynamics, and I applaud your integrity and assertiveness in attempting to get something off the ground that is desparately needed as I perceive the WBCCI. I think we had some early beginnings of this conversation in Monument Valley in June 2005.
I hope our paths cross and we meet up again.
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Old 09-25-2006, 10:25 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klevan
And as usual, thanks for your clearheaded analysis.
You are correct on all points of course, but not entirely right.

To me it would not have been "right" to be anything less than honest in explaining the philosophy and objectives of the proposed Four Corners Unit, but it would have been the "correct" way to garner approval. ...
Ken,

As a Marine you know that the best way to take an mountain or building is not through the front door but from behind where they are not looking for you.

Best of Luck,

Bill
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