Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-18-2011, 04:09 PM   #81
Commercial Member
 
vintageair's Avatar
 
1955 16' Bubble
Europe , glous
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 57
Mike,
Very interesting. Thanks.

I wonder how long they owned her. I reckon my oris might in fact be Dorris!

Sam.
__________________

__________________
Sam
WBCCI #1234 Nebraska - My trailer is the #1
www.vintageairstreams.co.uk
https://twitter.com/carryonglamping
www.99point7percentpure.blogspot.com
vintageair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2011, 04:14 PM   #82
Rivet Master
 
streamer23's Avatar
 
NOVA SCOTIA , CANADA
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,448
Images: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by vintageair View Post
Mike,
Very interesting. Thanks.

I wonder how long they owned her. I reckon my oris might in fact be Dorris!

Sam.
The 1968 Directory is my oldest and Alfred was still in my 1990 Directory but not in my 1992.

The membership numbers are issued to the owners and not to specific trailers so hard to say how long they owned it.
__________________

__________________
Mike

AIR #7916
Ex WBCCI #32083
streamer23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2011, 06:13 PM   #83
4 Rivet Member
 
Grand Master's Avatar
 
1963 24' Tradewind
Anderson / Sun City , Indiana / Arizona
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 444
My 1957 Directory does not contain #1234, because the highest number listed is #1209. The 1958 Directory lists #1234 as Hempel. Therefore, it is not likely that #1234 was originally issued to this trailer when she was new.

I am curious about the Wally Byam's Caravan plate below the numbers. First, it is not rivoted on, so is it the mylar sticker version? To tell the difference - Mylar is paper thin as opposed to aluminum panel thickness of the plate. Second, I have never personally seen a red one when they were being originally issued prior to 1962. Is it possible that the red had just faded out leaving blue?

The Wally Byam's Caravan designation indicated that this trailer had been on a Caravan, not just a member of the WBCC.

Great trailer. Congratulations
__________________
Mike Brumback
WBCCI #1200
Grand Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2011, 07:59 PM   #84
4 Rivet Member
 
Grand Master's Avatar
 
1963 24' Tradewind
Anderson / Sun City , Indiana / Arizona
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Master View Post
........ I have never personally seen a red one when they were being originally issued prior to 1962. Is it possible that the red had just faded out leaving blue?
Correction. I have never personally seen a BLUE one when they were beingin originally issued prior to 1962. Is it possible that the red just faded out to blue?
__________________
Mike Brumback
WBCCI #1200
Grand Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2011, 08:42 PM   #85
Site Team
 
azflycaster's Avatar

 
2002 25' Safari
Dewey , Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 14,034
Images: 62
Blog Entries: 1
Vintage Trailer Supply makes a reproduction of the red plate and talks about both the red and blue ones here:
Wally Byam's Caravan Etched Plate

I was the lucky winner of one during the raffle at the Vintage area during the International Rally. Thanks VTS!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG-20110701-00055.jpg
Views:	123
Size:	472.6 KB
ID:	135288  
__________________

Richard

Wally Byam Airstream Club 7513
azflycaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2011, 09:07 PM   #86
4 Rivet Member
 
Grand Master's Avatar
 
1963 24' Tradewind
Anderson / Sun City , Indiana / Arizona
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 444
Richard,
I know that Vintage makes that reference, but refer to post #44, #54, & #56. Pee Wee is pretty emphatic that they were never blue. And, I don't remenber ever seeing a blue one either.

If you look at my profile, you will see a red one on my Dad's '54.
__________________
Mike Brumback
WBCCI #1200
Grand Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2011, 09:15 PM   #87
Rivet Master
 
66Overlander's Avatar
 
1962 22' Safari
2016 30' Classic
Southeast , Michigan
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,597
Images: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by streamer23 View Post
My 1968 directory lists #1234 to

Alfred & Dorris Jorgensen
Omaha Ne
Quote:
Originally Posted by streamer23 View Post
The 1968 Directory is my oldest and Alfred was still in my 1990 Directory but not in my 1992.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Master View Post
My 1957 Directory does not contain #1234, because the highest number listed is #1209. The 1958 Directory lists #1234 as Hempel. Therefore, it is not likely that #1234 was originally issued to this trailer when she was new.
I can add that #1234 was still assigned to the Hempels in my 1960 Directory, but had been reassigned to the Jorgensens by 1966. I do not have the directories in between to allow me to be more precise. The Jorgensens are not listed as having participated on any Airstream or numbered WBCCI caravans.

Barney and Della Hempel were from Belleville, NE, so it is quite possible that they were the original owners your 1956 30' Sovereign (and original assignees for #1234) and later sold the Sovereign to the Jorgensens, although I cannot prove that. The Hempels are not listed as having participated on any caravans in my 1960 Directory, but I cannot vouch for the years 1961 to 1965.

I should note that the square Wally Byam's Caravan plaque/sticker preceded the current WBCCI "globe" as the club "logo". I have seen this plaque/sticker before on Airstreams with no caravan history, so it's presence does not mean the trailer went on any caravans.

That's all I have. Enjoy your 13-panel Sovereign!
__________________
Joe
Wally Byam Caravan Club International Historian
Vintage Airstream Club Historian
WBCCI/VAC #6768

66Overlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2011, 09:24 PM   #88
4 Rivet Member
 
Grand Master's Avatar
 
1963 24' Tradewind
Anderson / Sun City , Indiana / Arizona
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Overlander View Post
.......
I should note that the square Wally Byam's Caravan plaque/sticker preceded the current WBCCI "globe" as the club "logo". I have seen this plaque/sticker before on Airstreams with no caravan history, so it's presence does not mean the trailer went on any caravans.
Joe you are correct. in reviewing this thread I found the following in post #22.

Howver, in old photos my Dad's trailer was often the only one in the frame with the rectangular plaque.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	byam0005.jpg
Views:	154
Size:	54.7 KB
ID:	135289  
__________________
Mike Brumback
WBCCI #1200
Grand Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2011, 09:26 PM   #89
Site Team
 
azflycaster's Avatar

 
2002 25' Safari
Dewey , Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 14,034
Images: 62
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Master View Post
Richard,
I know that Vintage makes that reference, but refer to post #44, #54, & #56. Pee Wee is pretty emphatic that they were never blue. And, I don't remenber ever seeing a blue one either.

If you look at my profile, you will see a red one on my Dad's '54.
This is going to have to remain a mystery. The picture in the earlier post does look blue, but it may have faded over the years.
__________________

Richard

Wally Byam Airstream Club 7513
azflycaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 12:26 AM   #90
Commercial Member
 
vintageair's Avatar
 
1955 16' Bubble
Europe , glous
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Master View Post
My 1957 Directory does not contain #1234, because the highest number listed is #1209. The 1958 Directory lists #1234 as Hempel. Therefore, it is not likely that #1234 was originally issued to this trailer when she was new.

I am curious about the Wally Byam's Caravan plate below the numbers. First, it is not rivoted on, so is it the mylar sticker version? To tell the difference - Mylar is paper thin as opposed to aluminum panel thickness of the plate. Second, I have never personally seen a red one when they were being originally issued prior to 1962. Is it possible that the red had just faded out leaving blue?

The Wally Byam's Caravan designation indicated that this trailer had been on a Caravan, not just a member of the WBCC.

Great trailer. Congratulations
The plate has been etched/embossed onto .0032 aluminium sheet material and is not a mylar sticker. The blue does look like it is original. It's not riveted. I can't tell if the back of the plate is flat or if it has the reverse imprint. But I assume it is flat as it looks like the plate has been deeply etched rather than embossed.

Thank you for the all the information, I wonder if there might be any more to come.....

Sam.
__________________
Sam
WBCCI #1234 Nebraska - My trailer is the #1
www.vintageairstreams.co.uk
https://twitter.com/carryonglamping
www.99point7percentpure.blogspot.com
vintageair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 09:06 AM   #91
4 Rivet Member
 
Grand Master's Avatar
 
1963 24' Tradewind
Anderson / Sun City , Indiana / Arizona
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Overlander View Post
.......I should note that the square Wally Byam's Caravan plaque/sticker preceded the current WBCCI "globe" as the club "logo". I have seen this plaque/sticker before on Airstreams with no caravan history, so it's presence does not mean the trailer went on any caravans.
I think I have run upon a clue in the evolution of the WBCCI. In 1956 and 1957 the directories were titled Wally Byam's Caravanners. In 1958 the title changed to Wally Byam's Caravanners & Club Members. It remained thus for many years before being changed to the current WBCCI Membership Directory.

The Club was an evolutionary process and in 1958 they were planning for the 1st International Rally which they called an Airstream Congress in the Ozarks. I have included an image of a 1958 letter previously posted in this thread. Notice the letterhead - Wally Byam's Caravan. I think it is probable that it was because of the formation of an annual Rally that the use of the rectangular plaque evolved from its previous use for Caravans into a general logo for members of the Club. I can tell you that prior to 1958 there were very few Airstreams with red WBC plaques in the many Airstream pictures that I have.

I have gone through countless pictures taken at Rallies and Caravans prior to 1962 and I cannot find any examples of blue plaques. They are all red. I believe that current examples of blue plaques were originally red plaques that have faded to blue. The only other explanation is that during the evolutionary process they produced blue plaques for a very brief period of time. I do know that they started as red and ended as red.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Scan 3.jpg
Views:	105
Size:	196.9 KB
ID:	135306   Click image for larger version

Name:	byam0006.jpg
Views:	112
Size:	58.5 KB
ID:	135307  

__________________
Mike Brumback
WBCCI #1200
Grand Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 01:37 PM   #92
Commercial Member
 
vintageair's Avatar
 
1955 16' Bubble
Europe , glous
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 57
grey not blue....

I had have another look today in better light and can pretty much confirm what Grand Master and others in the thread have suggested.

The plaque is not blue, it was probably red but paint has gone and left a grey background.

On the next posting I will add pictures of the Wally Byam trailers plaque. A colour one from the fifties and a what it looks like today
__________________
Sam
WBCCI #1234 Nebraska - My trailer is the #1
www.vintageairstreams.co.uk
https://twitter.com/carryonglamping
www.99point7percentpure.blogspot.com
vintageair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 01:40 PM   #93
Commercial Member
 
vintageair's Avatar
 
1955 16' Bubble
Europe , glous
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 57
1234 grey photos

photos attached of 1234 plaque
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen shot 2011-07-19 at 20.29.59.png
Views:	107
Size:	1.97 MB
ID:	135367   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen shot 2011-07-19 at 20.30.13.png
Views:	93
Size:	1.03 MB
ID:	135368  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen shot 2011-07-19 at 20.30.26.png
Views:	103
Size:	967.7 KB
ID:	135369  
__________________
Sam
WBCCI #1234 Nebraska - My trailer is the #1
www.vintageairstreams.co.uk
https://twitter.com/carryonglamping
www.99point7percentpure.blogspot.com
vintageair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 01:50 PM   #94
Commercial Member
 
vintageair's Avatar
 
1955 16' Bubble
Europe , glous
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 57
The #1 Wally Byam trailer plaque 1955 and 2011

Attached are images of the #1 trailers plaque new and old. Please note the before photo was supplied from the estate Helen Schwamborn.

You will see red in 54/55 plus a close up of what it turns out like 56 years later. It is exactly the same as the one on the 1234.

Just to note that the #1 front plaque is riveted while the rear one (which is missing) was not.

There is a shadow of plaque on the the rear.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen shot 2011-07-19 at 20.42.07.png
Views:	108
Size:	137.6 KB
ID:	135374   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen shot 2011-07-19 at 20.46.25.png
Views:	113
Size:	2.01 MB
ID:	135375  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen shot 2011-07-19 at 20.46.36.png
Views:	93
Size:	2.03 MB
ID:	135376   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen shot 2011-07-19 at 20.46.45.png
Views:	113
Size:	1.08 MB
ID:	135377  

__________________
Sam
WBCCI #1234 Nebraska - My trailer is the #1
www.vintageairstreams.co.uk
https://twitter.com/carryonglamping
www.99point7percentpure.blogspot.com
vintageair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 02:12 PM   #95
Commercial Member
 
vintageair's Avatar
 
1955 16' Bubble
Europe , glous
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 57
1961 Omaha NEB

Quote:
Originally Posted by streamer23 View Post
Alfred & Dorris Jorgensen
Omaha Ne

Looks like Alfred & Dorris attended the National Trailer Rally in Omaha Neb back in 1961, could this have been their first outing?

Any idea of the significance in a metal plaque compared foil one, it looks very offical.?

I would love to know when she got the plaque for going on a caravan/s, would it have been mid 50's (it looks the same as the 55 #1) or maybe later?

Will be few months before I go exploring for other ghost numbers with Nuvite on those to end caps.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen shot 2011-07-19 at 20.55.03.png
Views:	89
Size:	2.08 MB
ID:	135382   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen shot 2011-07-19 at 20.55.11.png
Views:	102
Size:	2.44 MB
ID:	135383  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen shot 2011-07-19 at 20.55.19.png
Views:	89
Size:	2.06 MB
ID:	135384   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen shot 2011-07-19 at 20.55.28.png
Views:	76
Size:	1.94 MB
ID:	135385  

__________________
Sam
WBCCI #1234 Nebraska - My trailer is the #1
www.vintageairstreams.co.uk
https://twitter.com/carryonglamping
www.99point7percentpure.blogspot.com
vintageair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 08:56 PM   #96
4 Rivet Member
 
Grand Master's Avatar
 
1963 24' Tradewind
Anderson / Sun City , Indiana / Arizona
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 444
The WBCC Window decals indicate they belonged to the Nebraska Unit and attended the Bemidji, MN International Rally in 1963. I don't believe the National Trailer Rally decal was an Airstream event.

Originally, the Wally Byam's Caravan plaques were made of aluminum plates. By 1959 the club switched to a mylar emblem (probably to save money). I don't believe there is any distinction between them other than the year they were issued. Joe was correct that because the use of the plaque changed over the years, it is not possible to assume an Airstream was on a Caravan simply because it has a plaque.

I have deduced that the plaques were originallyused to designate who had gone on a Caravan (early 1950's to 1958). By about 1958 this distinction had morphed into a universal club logo. It was later phased out by about 1962. I also notice that in old pictures I find examples of Airstreams with the rectagular plaques below the big red numbers, and the current style round decal above. If you look in my profile, you will see an example of our Unit decal above the numbers (the decal is similar to your Nebraska Unit decal).
__________________
Mike Brumback
WBCCI #1200
Grand Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 12:12 AM   #97
Rivet Master
 
66Overlander's Avatar
 
1962 22' Safari
2016 30' Classic
Southeast , Michigan
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,597
Images: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Master View Post
I think I have run upon a clue in the evolution of the WBCCI. In 1956 and 1957 the directories were titled Wally Byam's Caravanners. In 1958 the title changed to Wally Byam's Caravanners & Club Members. It remained thus for many years before being changed to the current WBCCI Membership Directory.
Mike,
You are correct! I noted this and many other evolutionary changes in the article WBCCI Through the Years that I had published in the August 2010 issue of the WBCCI Blue Beret magazine. Check it out at www.blueberetonline.com if you did not keep your copy.

I will add that the WBCCI Directory continued to list Airstream caravan participants that did not choose to join or retain their club membership through 1979. Finally in 1980, the Directory only listed dues paying members.
__________________
Joe
Wally Byam Caravan Club International Historian
Vintage Airstream Club Historian
WBCCI/VAC #6768

66Overlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 12:35 AM   #98
Commercial Member
 
vintageair's Avatar
 
1955 16' Bubble
Europe , glous
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 57
Thank you for all the information.

So, given that aluminium plaques disappeared around 1958 and their distinction of indicating a trailer had been on a caravan also changed around this time into more of a general club logo, would it be reasonable to assume that this/any trailer with an aluminium plaque was on an actual Wally Byam caravan?


Sam.
__________________
Sam
WBCCI #1234 Nebraska - My trailer is the #1
www.vintageairstreams.co.uk
https://twitter.com/carryonglamping
www.99point7percentpure.blogspot.com
vintageair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2011, 05:36 AM   #99
Rivet Master
 
66Overlander's Avatar
 
1962 22' Safari
2016 30' Classic
Southeast , Michigan
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,597
Images: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by vintageair View Post
Thank you for all the information.

So, given that aluminium plaques disappeared around 1958 and their distinction of indicating a trailer had been on a caravan also changed around this time into more of a general club logo, would it be reasonable to assume that this/any trailer with an aluminium plaque was on an actual Wally Byam caravan?


Sam.
Hi Sam,
Unfortunately NO it is not a good assumption that your '56 Sovereign with the plaque was on a Wally Byam Caravan, although it may have been on one between 1961 and 1965. As I stated earlier, according to the WBCCI Directories I have, the original assignees of #1234, Barney and Della Hempel of Belleville, NE were not on any caravans from 1957 (when the number was first assigned) through 1960 and the later assignees of #1234, Alfred and Dorris Jorgensen of Omaha NE, were never on a Wally Byam Caravan.

The only possibility it was on a Wally Byam Caravan was if the Hempels (or another interim owner) took it on a caravan between 1961 and 1965 before the trailer was sold to the Jorgensens. While not impossible, this seems unlikely. The typical WBCCI member back then participated on a caravan shortly after joining the club, not years after joining. We also don't have proof that the Hempels actually owned your Airstream, nor do we know when they sold it if they did own it. Assuming the Hempels DID own your Airstream, they could have sold it anywhere between mid 1961 (after the 1960 Directory was published) to mid 1965 (before the 1966 Directory was published). It is also possible that the Hempels sold the trailer after 1960 to an interim couple that took it on a caravan before selling it to the Jorgensens prior to 1966. This seems unlikely, but not impossible. If anyone has 1962 through 1965 WBCCI Directories, we can clear up this mystery (there was no 1961 Directory). If not, we can only speculate.

Another reason it is unlikely that your '56 Sovereign went on a caravan is that 30-footers were the longest and heaviest Airstreams made at that time and therefore less likely than shorter models to be taken on a caravan on rough roads in Mexico or Canada when pulled by the typical car of the day. Again, this is not proof, just a supposition. Some 30-footers did go on caravans.

So to conclude, it is possible that your '56 Sovereign was on a caravan, but in my opinion it is unlikely. Unless you find a decal or hidden paperwork from a 1961 to 1965 caravan on or inside the trailer, or unless someone can check the 1962 through 1965 Directories (which I don't have), you probably will never know for sure.
__________________
Joe
Wally Byam Caravan Club International Historian
Vintage Airstream Club Historian
WBCCI/VAC #6768

66Overlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2011, 02:24 AM   #100
Commercial Member
 
vintageair's Avatar
 
1955 16' Bubble
Europe , glous
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 57
Joe,

Many thanks. I find the whole thing very interesting and again many thanks for helping to piece this together.

Also many thanks to the Airforums and the club for making this possible.

I don't wish to clog the thread too much on an individual trailer but I do have a few others questions, that answers could be pm'd or posted (which ever is more appropriate).

- Can I do I title history search?
- Could the club do a S/n search?
- If metal plaques discounted in 1958, then is it reasonable to assume they would not have been added in the 60's and must have been put on the trailer in the 50's?
- We can't confirm who owned the trailer in 56 and 57, we know 1234 do not exist in 57. Could we then assume the Hempels are not the first owners?

She was purchased in 2000 from Shorewood RV in Anoka by Andy Herman who sold the trailer 2011. I am going to give them a phone to see if anyone remembers where she came from.

I can clearly see 'Doris' painted on the lower first segment curb side with a bunch of other details including Omaha Nebraska. It looks like the trailer was given a name, but need get good light on there to work out that this is.

Sam.
__________________

__________________
Sam
WBCCI #1234 Nebraska - My trailer is the #1
www.vintageairstreams.co.uk
https://twitter.com/carryonglamping
www.99point7percentpure.blogspot.com
vintageair is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.