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Condoluminum · 04-14-2007, 01:46 PM

I agree with you. We need to do something that allows these folks to retain their WBCCI membership for all the hard work, time and effort these members have put in. I support the idea of "Legacy Member", it's a win - win solution.

Thanks for support... I thought about using the term "grandfathering" but it just seems so "Age-ist"

And so many of the owners of Class A's are grandparents...

I'd be interested in other feedback on whether 10 years of loyal qualifying membership is enough, or if it should be 15 or 20 years before someone could remain a member regardless of model owned, and if it's worth setting up a poll on this idea as well..

tincantom · 04-14-2007, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Condoluminum

I'd be interested in other feedback on whether 10 years of loyal qualifying membership is enough, or if it should be 15 or 20 years before someone could remain a member regardless of model owned, and if it's worth setting up a poll on this idea as well..

I'm a 13 year member and no way that is long enough to allow me to drive around in an SOB and retain membership. You can call it what you will (Legacy, Associate or Grandfather), but I don't think we should be allowing anyone to have regular member privileges if they don't have an Airstream product. I wouldn't support a wholesale membership requirement change like this.

Sorry, but I don't see this as any different than what happened to some of our members who purchased the Airstream Integrity 5th Wheels and had no similar Airstream product to buy when they wanted to upgrade. I guess that was acceptable since they were probably just counted as our "usual" annual 6% membership loss.

Coloradobus · 04-14-2007, 09:18 PM

markdoane,

No one clairfied how I read your question about this motorhome vote.
This is a Vote about the CLUB's future. It's a Vote of "yea or ney" to allow an alien Motorhome into the WBCCI. It is a vote to allow ALIEN coach's built by FOUR WINDS and MANDALAY into the WBCCI and give them every right and all the privedges that current paying members of the WBCCI enjoy.
The CLUB will then become a club for other RV's, that are not manufactured by AIRSTREAM INC. The CLUB will no longer be Airstream Specific.

I fear the worst.

Jim and Chris
WBCCI #5812
Denver Unit
'59 Caravanner
'67 Globe Trotter
'79 Trade Wind Int'l
'97 B-190 B Van
'06 Bambi Quick Silver
'00 S.O.B motorhome- and NOT a Four Winds/Mandalay

Coloradobus · 04-14-2007, 10:59 PM

Let's not cloud the current issue here right now. Vote, "Yea or Ney", to allow Four Winds/Mandalay Motorhomes into the WBCCI with full rights and priveledges as if their coaches were made by Airstream, INC.

myboyburt · 04-14-2007, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloradobus

Let's not cloud the current issue here right now. Vote, "Yea or Ney", to allow Four Winds/Mandalay Motorhomes into the WBCCI with full rights and priveledges as if their coaches were made by Airstream, INC.

Our first step is to ensure this proposal is voted down - with delegates not being allowed to change their unit vote due to changes to the proposal that come from the floor during the delegates meeting at International.

Next step (and there must be a next step because those in power are traveling in Airstream MHs, not Airstream trailers) we must come up with a way to deal with this issue that allows us to remain an Airstream only club and allow current Airstream MH owners to retain membership in some fashion if they need to replace their unit.

This issue will *not* go away after the membership votes down the proposal this year. Too many in power are not trailer owners and having worked their way up through the chain to become Region or International Officers they feel they know what is best for the WBCCI and it's membership and will continue to work/fight to include SOB MHs in our club.

Coloradobus · 04-15-2007, 11:19 AM

It's been memtioned above, so let's give it legs.

How about we pick a date for "Grandfathering of the MH owners" sometime during the rest of this year. Then those MH owners who want to update their coach at a later date and stay in the club with a newer, or new coaches, may. This must only apply to current dues paying members who are exisiting "Class A" MH owners, made by Airstream INC. Just a thought.

yukionna · 04-15-2007, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myboyburt

Our first step is to ensure this proposal is voted down - with delegates not being allowed to change their unit vote due to changes to the proposal that come from the floor during the delegates meeting at International.

This is an important point...thanks for bringing it up myboyburt. Changes will inevitably come from the floor so your delegate should be prepped in advance on how to handle this situation if it should arise.

bfred · 04-15-2007, 05:27 PM

Some good points and arguments here. Keep in mind, that if someone has to leave the club because they no longer own an airstream, it is not the end of the world or the club. WBCCI will survive.
We belong to five different travel clubs and they are all suffering a decline in membership. Research shows that the baby boomers are not joiners, but just want to camp and travel without the obligation of belonging to a club.
Maybe we should give those sob MH owners a chapter of their own and leave the Airstream owners decide their own fate.
No matter what, I encourage a NO vote on this SOB amendment.

myboyburt · 04-15-2007, 06:51 PM

[quote=bfred]Research shows that the baby boomers are not joiners. quote]

Well, maybe.

But, the NEU is mostly made up by and run by baby boomers! So, what does this mean?

herrgirdner · 04-15-2007, 07:43 PM

My opinion doesn't carry much weight, I've been a WBCCI member for less than a year, however, it seems to me that since the WBCCI used the Airstream product for its genesis, it ought to remain that way.
regards

yukionna · 04-15-2007, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfred

Research shows that the baby boomers are not joiners, but just want to camp and travel without the obligation of belonging to a club.

There is all sorts of research out there on baby boomers. A study done by the Lions Club indicates that boomers are much more likely to be joiners than other groups.

airstreamers · 04-15-2007, 09:53 PM

my vote would carry less than no weight as i'm not a member yet. i have actually been waiting to see how this issue goes before i make a final decision about joining. i'm not saying that i won't join if it passes, just that i'm interested in the way issues are resolved in this organization. so, for the record, my vote would be "NO!"

yukionna · 04-16-2007, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airstreamers

my vote would carry less than no weight as i'm not a member yet. i have actually been waiting to see how this issue goes before i make a final decision about joining. i'm not saying that i won't join if it passes, just that i'm interested in the way issues are resolved in this organization. so, for the record, my vote would be "NO!"

Your vote is important here, on the forums!

So far, 80 voted against MH's and 3 voted for them.

Minnie's Mate · 04-16-2007, 01:17 PM

I can tell you one of the main reasons, if not the only reason, that the IBT wants this motion to pass. Over the weekend I attended an RV show and the local Airstream dealer was showing so I struck up a conversation with him about the issue and he said that I'd be shocked at how much of a discount Airstream makes him give on Class-A's to the officers of WBCCI. I told him I'd heard everything from huge discounts to free 34' Classic trailers were given to the officers above a certain level. He didn't flinch about free trailers. Now I'm sure the free trailer didn't come out of his pocket, but out of Airstream, Inc.'s if that rumor is even true. But the point is, the officers in the club get tremendous discounts on the Class-A's so this represents quite a perk-i.e. a huge sum of money that they get to keep in their pocket every time they purchase a new Class-A as long as they are officers of the club. If they join another club, they loose that perk and they loose their status as club leaders and have to start at the bottom of the ranks. There is a lot at stake for them: power, prestige, and money. No wonder they are trying so hard to ram this motion down our throats. They don't care about "the members". All they care about is their own lifestyles and what they can get out of the club. Volunteering, yeah, right. They are volunteering to get all they can and then some.

wheel interested · 04-16-2007, 01:45 PM

So that explains why the audience at the IBT MidWinter Rally was so excited, they are getting them free or very inexpensively. They will do whatever it takes to get that perk even changing the Airstream specific club. A big pyramid with the top getting free rewards for handling the broader base. Now they need more members, not to enhance their rally experience but to keep the dues money coming in to pay for all the hundreds and hundreds of volunteers that have only to drive up and say we're here what can we do and they have yet another free or inexpensive place to fulltime on the unit members dime. Yet it's a fight to allow members to pay for only the one or few days they can attend and not the full rally fee which others can stay a month or so on.

C Johnson · 04-16-2007, 01:46 PM

No, Nope, nada, no way jose, not on my watch, not in my back yard. Just how many ways are there to say no ?

yukionna · 04-16-2007, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

Over the weekend I attended an RV show and the local Airstream dealer was showing so I struck up a conversation with him about the issue and he said that I'd be shocked at how much of a discount Airstream makes him give on Class-A's to the officers of WBCCI. I told him I'd heard everything from huge discounts to free 34' Classic trailers were given to the officers above a certain level. He didn't flinch about free trailers.

WOW!

Now that is a shock to hear. Who would have known? This has to be the best kept secret around!

I guess the "priviledged" level is above the unit president level as I didn't get a free or discounted trailer the year I served as unit president.

myboyburt · 04-16-2007, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukionna

WOW!

Now that is a shock to hear. Who would have known? This has to be the best kept secret around!

I guess the "priviledged" level is above the unit president level as I didn't get a free or discounted trailer the year I served as unit president.

I heard about this at last year's International. Though I don't remember if the discounted Airstream Trailer or MH perk starts when an officer become a Region President or if it starts when they move to International office.

What I remember hearing (and it could be just hear say) is that a new Airstream MH or Trailer is given to newly "elected" IBT officers to use during their term in office. Then at the end of their term the Airstream is offered to them for a reduced price, because of course it is now a used MH.

I wonder if the same kind of perk will be offered if the Four Winds are allowed in. I guess it would be up to Thor as the parent company to decide if they want to continue the same type of program they offered IBT officers through Airstream.

Now, let me say this was all the talk / rumor at International last year. It may not be true at all.

dufferin · 04-16-2007, 05:00 PM

interesting... and then it is supposed to be about MEMBER, FRIENDSHIP and INVOLVEMENT.
sounds to me it is about PRIVILEGE (if it happened to be true)

Coloradobus · 04-16-2007, 06:46 PM

With the amount of money for travel re-imbursements the WBCCI BLue Book spells out in the By Law, this new info is NOT surprising.
"WBCCI BLue Book Bylaw and Policy Page 36 Issued 6/19/90"

a.) IBT President and I quote,"$10,440.00 plus one-way travel expenses to Board of Trustee meetings, other than those above, based on a budget submitted to the Treasurer prior to July1, for approval of the Executive Committee on or before July5. claims to be submitted diectly to HQ.

b.) IBT VP, and I quote "$6390.00 plus one-way travel expenses to Board of Trustee meetings, other than above, based on a budget....blah blah blah as above

c.) 2nd VP and I quote "$6030.00 plus one way travel .....on and on like above

d.) 3rd VP and I quote," $5805.00.....the rest is the same as Prez.
e.) Int'l Treasurer they get $3,000 plus the above as the Prez.
f.) Recording Secretary gets $3,000.00

g.) Immediate Past Prez, gets $800.00 and the above as the main Prez
h.) Region Prez gets $1,290.00 IN addition, Regional Prez shall receive reimbursement for travelling expenses on a variable allotment of $40.00 for each Unit in the Region and for travelling expenses to and from the IBT meeting, other than those above....the rest is as the first for Prez

i.) Region VP $650.00 In addition Region VP shall receive reimbursemet for travelling expenses on a variable allotment of $20.00 for each Unit in the Region. Cross funding within a region is authorized with full approval of the region officers concerned. In the event a region officer does not utilize his budgeted funds by the end of the fiscal year, the whole or a potion therof maybe allocated to the other Officers in the Region by application to HQ
More is spelled out but none comes close to what the Int'l Prez gets. This is a really big deal.
Also, in the Bylaws on Page 7 issued 6/23/01 The Board of Trustees shall have authority to award a Lifetime Memebership to the Outgoing Int'l Prez and the money shall come out of the main club coffer. This was past 1/17/97.

This whole thing is a BIG TO-DO!