Saddened by WBCCI Action

[Goin camping]

Originally Posted by warbler5

Well......THAT certainly looks like more fun than what I saw in the Blue Beret

One question.....if we were to join the 4CU, would it be looked down upon for us to join in on the rallies of other units? I think one reason we were considering the MAL option was because we wanted to go on a few rallies with other units before committing ourselves! And, perhaps the 4CU might be one that we would want to stick with.....is that a problem, even though we could potentially become active in another unit?

Cheers

Nope. Most of us go to other WBCCI and non WBCCI rallies.

We are not a regimented group think unit. We just have fun and go camping. Participate as much or as little as you want and welcome in.

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by 62overlander

Also the person being banned for a year... I think until those who do not know the whole story do, all should refrain from spreading rumors as truth.

If you know the whole story, suppose you tell us what it is.

What we know at this point is,

1. Former International President Jim Franklin has been quite vocal about the need to improve the "quality versus quantity" of the WBCCI membership by purging it of dissident elements, in particular, "bloggers on Airstream Forums".
2. Grievances were filed against then-Region 1 President (now Region 1 IPP) Bob Thompson and present Metro NY Unit President Leo Garvey.
3. Coincidentally, both of these gentlemen had the temerity to run as candidates from the floor against the International Nominating Committees selected candidates for their respective offices. (Just a coincidence, I'm sure.)
4. Bob Thompson has been suspended for one year by the WBCCI Executive Committee upon recommendation of the Ethics and Grievance Committee. His suspension was announced at his own Region 1 rally last week.

If any of the foregoing assertions are not true, please indicate which ones are untrue and what are the true facts.

If the foregoing assertions are true, how about giving me reason not to be outraged as I am.

Like yourself, I am very attached to my WBCCI unit. But I wouldn't give you much for the International organization, and I'm beginning to wonder if the successful units like yours and mine wouldn't be better off without it.

See you down the road,
Nuvi

[soldiermedic]

Originally Posted by 62overlander

Once again, my offer stands to pay any forum members rally fees to any WDCU rally and the forums philosopher gets membership and dues...

If you throw in half of the fuel...I will be at Cherry Blossoms or the East Coast VAC rally.

Steve

[mbmbstreamer]

I think you've done a nice job listing facts. Lets list a few more:

5. Bob Thompson attempted to ensure ALL units get to vote, even if none of their unit members can attend the International. His motion was dismissed at the Winter IBT as not within the rules of the club.

6. Bob Thompson attempted to bring to the delegate meeting a motion to allow units to send a proxy to the International. It was ruled out of order.

7. In frustration, Bob Thompson sent a letter to the IP which detailed his opinions in language that reflected his concern for the club.

The Grievance Committee is not likely to comment. It is unclear how much information is provided to those who stand accused and reprimanded.

It is clear that Past R1 Pres. Thompson must have done something much worse than disagree or make critical remarks. Otherwise, I can't imagine how suspension would result from words.

Matt

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by mbmbstreamer

It is clear that Past R1 Pres. Thompson must have done something much worse than disagree or make critical remarks. Otherwise, I can't imagine how suspension would result from words.

Oh? That's not at all clear to me.

First of all, as I mentioned, past IP Jim Franklin had previously stated his intention to remove from membership those critical of the WBCCI or its Executive Committee. Bob Thompson and Leo Garvey have both certainly made comments critical of the Executive Committee.

Second, go read the actual words of the WBCCI Code of Ethics upon which a grievance can be based. They are sufficiently broad that almost anything anybody said could serve as the basis for a grievance.

Once a grievance is in the hands of the Ethics and Grievance Committee and the Executive Committee, the process is essentially 100% political. The outcome will depend on whether the complainant or the defendant has more juice with the personalities involved.

I think it is quite reasonable to believe that Bob Thompson was suspended on the basis of his words alone, in addition to the sin of running from the floor for International 3rd VP against the Approved candidate picked by the Nominating Committee.

(And by the way, in my inexpert opinion, the statement that "it is clear that he must have done something much worse" comes pretty close to libel. )

[TBRich]

Oh boy. Here we go...again...

[warbler5]

Nothing seems to bring our more emotion in this group than a discussion of WBCCI .....

I think we have decided to make the plunge and join the 4CU...

In reading over points 5, 6, and 7, what Bob Thompson, who I have never met or even heard of until this discussion, was proposing made perfect sense to me! Why is the IBT attempting to limit the voting of units to only those that can afford to send someone to vote in person? In these trying times of expensive airfares and gasoline prices that are sky-high, I would think that appointing a proxy or allowing a vote via snail-mail would be encouraged!

Bob, if you are reading this, I look forward to shaking your hand! In the meantime, thank you all for all your help in understanding what the WBCCI is all about. I guess it's time to jump off the fence and try to save Wally's Club before it's too late....and, have some fun camping at the same time....cuz, isn't that REALLY what it's all about?

Cheers

[moosetags]

Suspension from the club for opposing the leadership? What a crock!!!

Brian

[Chief]

"what we had in mind.....camping and informal socializing, maybe a potluck or two, head out in groups or on our own during the day, informal tours of the various Airstream rigs, problem sharing/solutions, and maybe a glass of wine...or two...around the campfire at night....or not, if that's not how you are feeling at the moment."

Warbler5,

Being a non-member, I really don't have a dog in this hunt. However, I have been following this thread with some interest because we've been considering WBCCI membership for the past year. When I read your post (partially quoted above), I realized that you had expressed our thoughts exactly. However, unlike you, I am still not convinced that I should contribute $55 to an "International" group that (appears) to do nothing positive for local or MAL units. I will continue to participate in forum rallies, which we really enjoy, but refrain from joining a group that would surely "suspend" my membership within a short time for being the outspoken, pain-in-the-butt, person that I can be. BTW, does anyone know if your International dues are refunded if you are "suspended" or "kicked out" of the club?

Chief

[eubank]

I guess I'll add my 2 cents worth on the Thompson suspension. Here I'm assuming narrowly that the suspension was of the result only of the letter that he wrote and that no other event or condition precipitated the suspension. (This is a crucial assumption, I think you'll agree.)

1. I do not agree with the suspension. The IP needs to look into the matter immediately and examine whatever can be done under WBCCI rules.

2. Thompson's letter was not a shining example of tact. That it precipitated a reaction is not surprising.

Lynn
WBCCI 21043

PS: I'll post these comments on the WBCCI forum.

[ronstory]

For the curious... it there a copy of the letter somewhere?

I've been thinking of joining the WBBCI and like the WDCU since they support web members well with e-mail voting, etc, etc.

However, I've been a member of a bunch of clubs over the years... and this if the first time I've seen an example of a true "suspension". Worse I've seen is someone at a club meeting losing their temper which got to the point of "you either need to be shut-up now or leave". Now that person did make the dinner alway held after our club meeting. Just because folks strongly disagree doesn't mean we like them. ;^)

Besides... I've yet to learn something from folks that agree with me. LoL

[eubank]

Below is a copy of the letter as it was posted on SaveWally.org. I hope I''ve got the line spacing right, but you can also see it at the URL below. My comment about the situation is above.

http://savewally.org/forums/index.php?topic=1158.15

Subject: WHAT IS GOING ON?
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 14:02:02 -0400

First we have the Proxy Motion at Mid-Winter IBT ruled "out of Order" based on a flimsy excuse. When, in fact, the motion does provide for a real human (the Proxy Holder) to be authorized to represent the unit giving the proxy. That Proxy would be instructed in the exact same manner as any Unit Delegate, prepared and ready to debate issues, and vote on amendments, for that Unit. That proxy holder would present themselves to the Delegate Credentials Committee and receive their credential. That Proxy Holder, now the Delegate for that unit, would be at the Delegates Meeting and have all the rights of any other Delegate. Yet our leadership, apparently not wanting every member's vote to be counted, rules the motion out of order, without the process of being discussed and voted on. It appears that I was wrong in thinking that we were following Robert's Rules in the conduct of a democratic meeting. STRIKE ONE MR COLLINS.

Then we come to the Parade issue. Who is minding the store? Mr. President, the flag issue is not a rumor; your statements are an insult to the membership. The buck stops at your office, and this issue should never have occurred. It appears, Mr. President, that your administration is "out of order" STRIKE TWO MR. COLLINS.

Now a four page voting procedures document is issued to some of the units - others did not receive it. The document is very biased against candidates running from the floor, and heavily favors the official slate of nominees. What's next Mr. President?

Since the Federal and State of Ohio election laws pertaining to corporations (including non-profit ones) appear to indicate, that if a unit, or an organization, does not follow the written voting procedures of the parent organization, then their votes can be nullified and not counted. This is similar to the two state Parties who did not follow the election instructions of the DNC, which like the WBCCI, is also a non-profit organization. Is this the intent? If not, why then do you say that you will take the matter under consideration and not take the necessary actions to correct the problem while we still have time?

Your own CB&L Chairman agrees that there is a problem. Some units don't even know that there are two people running for I3VP. Why is your administration trying to implement the "Two Highest Votes" provision, when it has NOT yet been voted on by the Delegates, and therefore is not yet a part of the WBCCI Constitution?

I'll bet that there are quite a few lawyers out there that would love to get their hands on this one. They would have a field day. Now there is an idea whose time may have finally come.

Why issue the voting procedures document in the first place? I've got news for you Mr. President, the membership is very smart and knows how to vote without it. Gee, Wally must be turning over in his grave. STRIKE THREE MR. COLLINS.

THREE STRIKES AND YOU'RE OUT MR. PRESIDENT. YOUR ADMINISTRATION HAS FAILED.

Wait, there's more. Mr. President, the Club's budget is operating in the red to the tune of thirty thousand dollars. Can we, the members, expect your administration to continue to operate in the red? I've not been informed of any significant cost savings since the Mid-Winter IBT meeting. ANOTHER STRIKE MR. COLLINS.

Retention is the number one problem in the Club, so what positive initiatives has your administration enacted? How come Regions I and II (among others) are growing and the leadership in your administration has not even looked into why, when other regions are not. Let's look at this retention problem a little closer.

Are you aware that last year a group of Airstream owners consisting of WBCCI members and non-members held a get-together in Western Florida? Most were non-members and it appears that they convinced some WBCCI members that there was a hassle-free way to have Airstream fun. It is understood that WBCCI lost some members as a result, the proof was in the DOING. That group again held a get-together this year, with even more Airstream RVs in attendance, over 60 RVs strong. Want to know more about this and other "get-togethers" across our country, then check out the "AirForums" website. This is happening in other areas of our nation. Their numbers are growing and ours are not. What does that tell
you? No action on your part gets you ANOTHER STRIKE MR. COLLINS.
Oh! Almost forgot, it appears that a Region 3 unit passed a motion under section 1 of the amendments Article. It is believed that amendment concerned the motorhome issue. Now, let me say up front that I am an Airstream trailer owner and that I believe that the Club should remain Airstream Products only Club. BUT I also believe that the Unit putting forth their motion had every right to do so under our Club's Constitution and I will fight for their right to do so, even though I would cast a no vote on such a motion.

AND it also appears that a Region 2 unit passed a couple of motions under section 1 of the amendments Article and sent such to their Region President.

So why have these not been sent to the other units in their region for a vote in accordance with the WBCCI Constitution? It is your administration Mr. President, the buck stops with you. It is understood that your administration appears to have taken action to cause the withdrawing of one motion and delay of the others. . Were scare tactics involved? What is going on? Why is International interfering with due process? Don't try that in my Region while I am the Region President.

Yeah, I know, you will "take it under consideration" Well that is ANOTHER STRIKE MR. COLLINS.

And while we are on the subject of a Section 1 of the amendments Article, allow me to advise you of coming events.

As you are aware (or should be) I have submitted the Proxy Motion to be placed on the agenda for the upcoming IBT. Now we know your "Out of Order" position, so a Unit placed the very same motion on their business meeting agenda; discussed it, and voted 100% for it. All with an attorney present. That motion was passed under Section 2, where in a unit may submit motions directly to the Delegates, without going through the IBT. As that motion is going through the process, you may have prevented all units from casting their votes in the short term, but all you have done is delay the inevitable. Our membership and our units will be able to cast their votes by proxy when necessary, and if you find the need to block this attempt just one more time, it is our membership that will make this happen in '09.

Now another unit is voting on the same Proxy Motion to amend the WBCCI Constitution under Section 1, and when their Region President receives the documentation, it will be sent to all of the units in their region to be voted on. And there is no greater example of a deliberative assembly then that of a unit addressing an issue. Every member has the right to speak, debate, and vote. When an administration fails, it is the right of the membership to take corrective action. Section 1 is their tool. The Constitution of the United States and that of Canada provide for this thye of Article and the Constitution of Ohio provides for such and WBCCI Constitution provides for it also.

Mr. President, it is believed that your administration is in a mess; is a complete failure; and is "out of order." YET ANOTHER STRIKE MR. COLLINS
Tell me, Mr. President, how many vendors are going to be at International? Less than fifty? Another failure. ANOTHER STRIKE MR. COLLINS.

Tell me Mr. President, How many helpful seminars are going to be at International? Not many, huh. Our Region 1 Rally has eleven helpful seminars planed plus several workshops. It is noted that Region 2, under Barry's administration as well as Don's current leadership have both presented great seminars and informative presentations. AND over in Region 3, Tom's administration has done a great job. In fact, Region 1 people go to many of the seminars in Regions 1 & 2 so we may learn and do better in our own Region. No wonder attendance is up at Region Rallies. Why hasn't International used some of these presenters?
Another failure, ANOTHER STRIKE MR. COLLINS.

NOW, IN ALL FAIRNESS TO YOU, MR. COLLINS, THESE STRIKES ARE LIKE IN A BALL GAME. YOU HAVE SIMPLY STRUCK OUT AND YOUR ADMINISTRATION HAS FAILED. IT IS SAD TO SAY, IN THE END, IT IS THE MEMBERSHIP THAT HAS LOST.

Ok IBT members, you have kept silent long enough, STAND UP AND BE COUNTED.

If the above comments do not provoke you into taking a position instead of being just another sheep in the flock, then I too have failed our membership. Take a stand, for me, or against me, it does not matter, just stand up for your Region's membership and do what is best for them, and best for WBCCI.

To paraphrase another, I know not what course others may take, but I will stand by the membership and work for the membership to my last day in office.

Robert E. Thompson II
Region 1 President

Lynn

[rickandsandi]

First I would like to mention that I support Bob 100% and it was a pleasure to have dinner with him up at PEI. Several NEU members are in the process of working with Bob on the issues at hand. As a Region 1 member and as one of the three original committee members who worked on the Proxy Voting Proposal which Bob presented to IBT, I too am quite upset and concerned over the events of the last several months. Bob has brought up many very good points and all are well worth addressing. Once Bob has had the opportunity to appeal the current allegations I hope all will be sorted out and we can then continue to find ways to better the WBCCI.

[LI Pets]

I started a new thread about the ethical way in which Bob Thompson was ousted.

All this has been building a long time and you can't buck the "Ancients" system.

You don't run from the floor or do anything else that they never saw before, you also are NOT under any circumstance allowed to envoke your freedom of speech rights.

If you do you get booted.

[mbmbstreamer]

My apologies for "libelous" remarks. I cannot believe that ANY leader (has been or present) of the club would vote to suspend someone based solely on expression of their opinion.

I heard Jim Franklin's remarks concerning criticism and thinning of the heard. I didn't believe ANY members of the IP or EC could possibly agree with that position. If that is his intent, perhaps we should re-instate sponsorship requirements for members. Force them to obtain several sponsors require a vote. With that change, we would significantly reduce the problem with new member retention. We could save a tremendous amount on the BB in a couple of years.

I'm sure without too much work, we could reduce the club to a few hundred who could then book rallies in much smaller venues.

I have read the Code of Ethics. I also have found no real direction for the determination of sentence, but this one is very harsh for exercising member rights to express concerns and propose change for improvement.

Since the WBCCI is a "Deliberative Body", the club is dependent on multiple points of view. Otherwise, we should pose all questions in writing. Mail them from Jackson Center in March. Vote on them in the units in April or May and MAIL in our unit votes....Sorry, only those who travel vote.

Again, sorry if I offended.

[moosetags]

No, you don't offend; The Club leadership offends our intelligence.

Brian

[wheel interested]

Originally Posted by SierraBreeze

Whether newcomer or old timer, if you aren't willing to get involved, to support your chosen unit, to expend some energy then you deserve what you get.

I'll second the validity of that statement. That's exactly what I encountered locally. You are pigeon-holed either for 'em or agin 'em and they sure let me have it, of course I deserved what I got. Or so they keep telling me to this day. Yeah, I'll be a MAL, thank you, until attitudes change from what some members think other members "ought" to do to be deserving to make the cut.

[MrAgent007]

Hello, the WBCCI and its management is worthless. An organization that chooses to take action against an individual who is simply exercising his First Amendment Right does not deserve to be in existance. The entire management structure needs to be purged of the brain dead individuals who choose to take action against a member who proffers facts they do not want or like to hear. These are exactly the type of people who should not be in any way involved in the management of any organization.

[pmclemore]

Thank you for your carefully reasoned, constructive and clearly stated analysis of the situation.

Pat

[MrAgent007]

Thank you for your gracious comment. This is very simple to evaluate, understand and develop a solution for. I could understand the WBCCI action to suspend someone for proffering an opinion if this was Russia or China, however, it is not. If people managing organizations do not like what they hear and retaliate for it, they need to be gone. End of story, PERIOD. These closed minded people have no place managing or running any kind of organization.