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Old 09-10-2019, 09:13 AM   #101
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:15 AM   #102
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CHANGE is EASY to accept!!!

Embrace CHANGE as it going to happen whether you like it or not and you might as well benefit from CHANGE rather than become a VICTIM of CHANGE with old attitudes and ideas!
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Old 09-10-2019, 01:03 PM   #103
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Correct. When you enter "Airstream Park" or the name of any Airstream park in the search engine of the new website, nothing related to an Airstream park appears. On the old website, the Airstream Parks Association had a section and a description of each Airstream park, with contact information and links to park websites. It appears the Airstream parks were omitted from the new, improved website. From my perspective, Airstream parks should be listed under "benefits". They are open for visitation by anyone who owns an Airstream, not just the owners.

I did report this to the webmaster, and they are aware and are in the process of adding this - it might be a bit, there are some technical issues that are being resolved. Thanks so much for pointing this out - very important, I think!
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:10 PM   #104
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I don't remember if this was discussed but I was just looking for detailed Caravan information. Used to be in the Blue Beret - not now. Went to the website and clicked on caravans - just some general stuff. Finally found something that said something like "for detailed information go to wbccicaravans.wbcci.net." Is it a link? nope, have to type it into the URL bar. Design not great, but OK - implementation fail. Someone needs to go through the whole site looking for stuff like this. It was too hard to find the details on the caravans.

Don't get me wrong, I love the concept of the new site and the club has to move forward but Caravans are one of the big things and we made it harder to get the info.

Al
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Old 03-08-2020, 11:11 AM   #105
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Role of religion in the WBCCI (ACI)

Some issues have come up about the role of religion in the WBCCI. As an informal survey, would you willing to share thoughts that you have regarding this topic? Thanks for your time.
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Old 03-09-2020, 12:06 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by twestover View Post
Some issues have come up about the role of religion in the WBCCI. As an informal survey, would you willing to share thoughts that you have regarding this topic? Thanks for your time.


What issues have come up? Whatís the context behind the question?

In a general sense, Iím comfortable enough in my own beliefs to not need them affirmed or discounted by my camping club and Iím not a fan of religious beliefs becoming a formal part of groups like this. Nor have I experienced it at any rallies Iíve attended.

The problem is if you ask 10 people about faith, youíll get 20 opinions - and everyone will say their view is right. You know - like arguing about hitches or tire pressure in the Forums We have enough of that without throwing everyoneís favorite Deity in to the mix. At least with hitches and tires pressure there are scales and gauges to objectively measure stuff. When it comes to faith - not sure what tool one uses to measure that - and if a club or any other entity - even a house of worship - wants to sell a faith torque wrench - Iím just not buying, thank you very much

So again - what issues have come up??
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Old 03-09-2020, 06:56 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by SteveSueMac View Post
What issues have come up? Whatís the context behind the question?

In a general sense, Iím comfortable enough in my own beliefs to not need them affirmed or discounted by my camping club and Iím not a fan of religious beliefs becoming a formal part of groups like this. Nor have I experienced it at any rallies Iíve attended.

The problem is if you ask 10 people about faith, youíll get 20 opinions - and everyone will say their view is right. You know - like arguing about hitches or tire pressure in the Forums We have enough of that without throwing everyoneís favorite Deity in to the mix. At least with hitches and tires pressure there are scales and gauges to objectively measure stuff. When it comes to faith - not sure what tool one uses to measure that - and if a club or any other entity - even a house of worship - wants to sell a faith torque wrench - Iím just not buying, thank you very much

So again - what issues have come up??

Generally, discussions of a religious invocation or prayer at meals at Airstream events. Just wondering what people think. That's all.
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Old 03-09-2020, 08:18 PM   #108
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As Steve said too many opinions to reach a conclusion.

We're good with prayer. We pray before every meal and trip anyway.

That being said if you are of different faith's or none are you offended by payer or just the one being offered currently.

You can no longer go with majority rules because someone always gets left out.

A previous poster asked why God has to be mentioned at all (no one replied to him) as it appeared to annoy him.

Another poster (said they are of Jewish faith) was at a rally and a basic prayer was offered and they were good with that. That same poster was at another rally and the prayer was more involved with more indepth religious verbiage and that didn't sit well with them due to words.

What's going to happen is all prayer will be left off so as to not offend. Maybe a moment of silence for self prayer or reflection will be put in it place instead.
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Old 03-09-2020, 10:06 PM   #109
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Letís try it this way. Letís say we all worked at different high tech companies. If you work at Google and your camping crowd talks in Google language, uses Google materials, inserts Google in to breakfast, lunch, and dinner ceremonies, and conducts business meetings under the flag of Google, are you happy about that because youíre a Googler?

Or...

Are you uncomfortable because you have friends in the camping club who happen to work at Facebook, Amazon, and Oracle and theyíre being forced to participate in Googlization in order to be part of the camping club?

If youíre an Amazonian - how are you feeling about the Googlization of your camping club?

If youíre a Googler but Facebookism reigns in the club - how are you feeling then?

Now - if Google wants to start a camping club for Googlers with shiny trailers or perhaps a special unit of the mother club for that stated purpose - well praise the Lord and pass the propane. Knock yourself out. Otherwise, a club whose members are only required to be owners of a certain brand of trailer has nothing to do with religion. And no religion - no matter how lovely, no matter how popular, no matter how beneficent - no religion should be forced on the members. Trust me - those with faith - and maybe even atheists - are praying quietly before eating at your rallyís pot luck supper anyway
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Old 03-10-2020, 02:45 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Hittenstiehl View Post
. . .
. . . Maybe a moment of silence for self prayer or reflection will be put in it place instead.
Silence is golden at moments like this IMO.

It resonates equally with all religions, or with none at all.

Brevity stuns.

Less is more.

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Old 03-10-2020, 09:59 AM   #111
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My ex-perception of the numbers scheme was that the trailers were rentals.
Me too!
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Old 03-15-2020, 09:00 PM   #112
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Things have quieted down at the club. Best not to bring religion into it. Will add that the
atheist-agnostic-secular group is one of the biggest groups and well over 20%. Things change.

If you want a fight, that would be a big one. Then you can make left handed people write right handed.
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Old 03-16-2020, 09:37 AM   #113
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Things have quieted down at the club. Best not to bring religion into it. Will add that the
atheist-agnostic-secular group is one of the biggest groups and well over 20%. Things change.

If you want a fight, that would be a big one. Then you can make left handed people write right handed.

I completely agree with you.


Terri
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Old 03-16-2020, 09:37 AM   #114
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Silence is golden at moments like this IMO.

It resonates equally with all religions, or with none at all.

Brevity stuns.

Less is more.


Yes!
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Old 03-16-2020, 12:27 PM   #115
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Brevity stuns . . . again!

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Old 04-17-2020, 10:51 PM   #116
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Going and camping in a field of Airstream's as was recently done at the Airstream "National" meet or at the Jackson Center event earlier this year is NOT a Caravan. It's Camping!

When Wally ran things you had Caravan's like the 1959 trip from Johannesburg SA to Cairo Egypt.

Now that was a Caravan!l]
I was on the planning committee for the 50th anniversary re-running of the Capetown to Cairo Caravan, it would have run in both directions using the same trailers and TVs with different participants to keep the cost down. Plans were excellent, would have had live 'streaming for sponsors of ads, military escort support from a couple of the most dangerous countries, support from A/S corporate.

The caravan was full: 50 units/people signed up (25 each direction).Two issues killed it: bottom out of economy in 2008, and refusal of WBCCI to give us caravan insurance, which caused A/S corp to drop out.

I was very upset with WBCCI--they said it was too dangerous, but so was the original caravan. So I guess we are a bunch of wusses now.

Anyway, I was depressed for a couple of years over that cancellation, and I still regret intensely that it was cancelled and I missed the caravan of a lifetime.

Vivian
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Old 04-17-2020, 11:43 PM   #117
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issues

I was on the planning committee for the 50th anniversary re-running of the Capetown to Cairo Caravan, it would have run in both directions using the same trailers and TVs with different participants to keep the cost down. Plans were excellent, would have had live 'streaming for sponsors of ads, military escort support from a couple of the most dangerous countries, support from A/S corporate.

The caravan was full: 50 units/people signed up (25 each direction).Two issues killed it: bottom out of economy in 2008, and refusal of WBCCI to give us caravan insurance, which caused A/S corp to drop out.

I was very upset with WBCCI--they said it was too dangerous, but so was the original caravan. So I guess we are a bunch of wusses now.

Anyway, I was depressed for a couple of years over that cancellation, and I still regret intensely that it was cancelled and I missed the caravan of a lifetime.

Vivian
Couldn't leave it as above--sounds like I don't like WBCCI/ACI what the hey--and that's not true. I will rejoin the club as soon as I get the VIN# of my Caravel (it's out-of-state being restored), and the VIN is required to join. It's a great club, I think I joined in 2001? and was a member until about 2 yrs ago. And yes there was a lot of formal stuff (berets, uniform, officer installation) but I just ignored it.

I was part of the Vintage Club, it was lots more fun than the big club, and we vintage folks usually parked together and caravanned into the big rallies because we were parked together and so we could have the Open House without visitors walking all over the entire parked group of Airstreams trying to locate all the vintage coaches. So do what you like in the club, and don't do what you don't care for: simple! One of my coaches had the big red numbers, and for the other I had a sheet of plexiglas with numbers, name, and home location. Again: do what you like! Nobody ever "scolded" me for doing/not doing anything.

But do take the letters out of the center of the new logo! That's awful: hard to read, confusing, looks like a college sports logo. How about a tradition we could keep: using the bicyclist-pulling-the-Airstream logo as the center of the new logo? My 2 cents worth!

Vivian
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Old 04-18-2020, 10:29 AM   #118
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I was very upset with WBCCI--they said it was too dangerous, but so was the original caravan. So I guess we are a bunch of wusses now.
It is not fair to compare 2009 to 1959.

In 1959 the club was run by Airstream. Since October 1979, the club has been completely independent from Airstream, both financially and administratively.

The risks in 1959 were mostly the lack of roads and repair facilities. The risks of armed natives were liited to a couple of countries. Most natives had no idea the caravan was coming and couldn't do anything about it when they saw it.

By 2009 armed natives with political agendas were everywhere and pre-publicity would let them know when and where to make their attack if they wanted to make a political statement or just take hostages for ransom.

2009 may have occurred without incident, but it is naive to think the risks weren't much greater than 1959 in many ways. Had a major incident have occurred, the club would have been ruined.

I was excited about the 2009 trip when it was being planned, though had no desire or ability to participate myself. I do not blame the club for not officially approving it as a club activity.
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Old 04-19-2020, 12:20 AM   #119
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It is not fair to compare 2009 to 1959.

In 1959 the club was run by Airstream. Since October 1979, the club has been completely independent from Airstream, both financially and administratively.

The risks in 1959 were mostly the lack of roads and repair facilities. The risks of armed natives were liited to a couple of countries. Most natives had no idea the caravan was coming and couldn't do anything about it when they saw it.

By 2009 armed natives with political agendas were everywhere and pre-publicity would let them know when and where to make their attack if they wanted to make a political statement or just take hostages for ransom.

2009 may have occurred without incident, but it is naive to think the risks weren't much greater than 1959 in many ways. Had a major incident have occurred, the club would have been ruined.

I was excited about the 2009 trip when it was being planned, though had no desire or ability to participate myself. I do not blame the club for not officially approving it as a club activity.
Joe, all due respect, but there are two major differences between 1959 and 2008, IMHO:
1. Great dangers in both time periods, but different kinds of danger, life-threatening in both cases but we had promise of military escort in the most dangerous countries.
2. The US was not a litigious country in 1959, now it is VERY litigious. But that's what the insurance is for, the club would not be the entity paying for damages or suits. And I'm sure the insurance company would have charged premiums commensurate with the danger, a cost which WBCCI would have passed on to the caravan, I'm sure.

WBCCI still runs caravans through Mexico and South America, there are kidnappings every year of Americans for ransom and there are bandits, but that hasn't stopped those caravans. I don't think the planning committee was naive, we were well aware of the dangerous people and areas, that's why the military escorts were arranged. The countries through which the caravan would have passed were very glad to have us coming: a major source of tourist spending $$, and thus were happy to give us the escorts.

Airstream Corporate is not naive, and they were going to send a new coach with us and fly their employees out in rotation to pull-inhabit that coach. But without insurance it would have been foolish to risk their coach and people, so I understand their pulling out.
IF the planning committee had not done the job properly, IF members didn't sign up due to danger, THEN refuse insurance and cancel. But that wasn't the case, WBCCI was simply risk averse. I bet Wally would have gone for it.

Vivian
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Old 04-19-2020, 07:18 AM   #120
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About 15 years ago; there was another Cape to Cairo caravan. Cape Girardeau Mo to Cairo Illinois. I don't remember which unit put it on, but it was about 35 miles and took 2 days.
The story was in an old BB, as I remember
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