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Old 03-27-2006, 10:29 PM   #161
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One member, one vote

Thanks Bjoern,
that's my my thought, I don't need giant red numbers anyhow. I actually think they are rather gaudy. If someone starts a one member one vote Airstream club I'll join.

I don't know what I'm missing not reading the Blue Beret, I've never seen a copy as you had to own an Airstream to subscribe. Now I own one and can't get past the full dues / no vote nonsense.

I would have voted NO!!

One member, one vote
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Old 03-27-2006, 10:45 PM   #162
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Hi safari64, I felt the same way, but made the move to jump off the fence and to let my one vote be heard. It's members like you and I that can make a differance in the future of this club. The one's who got the, I could give a damn attitude are the one's who have been carried all there lives, and have the attitude if it's not broken don't fix it and if it is, fix it but half BUTT, I wanted to use the other but don't want any issues with the Mod's.
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Old 03-27-2006, 11:02 PM   #163
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We call those kinds Lemmings... I would rather see people who support the change or like myself, don't support it. But one should never just accept something like this without thinking about it first.


Quote:
Originally Posted by davidh
Hi safari64, I felt the same way, but made the move to jump off the fence and to let my one vote be heard. It's members like you and I that can make a differance in the future of this club. The one's who got the, I could give a damn attitude are the one's who have been carried all there lives, and have the attitude if it's not broken don't fix it and if it is fix it but half BUTT, I wanted to use the other but don't want any issues with the Mod's.
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Old 03-27-2006, 11:15 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
Come on Shari -- you've lived through this in-person. Shed some light here because I can't even decipher what's going on here anymore...
As much faith as Leo has in me, I am not an expert in overall voting precidents and proceedures. I am just an ordinary member who has been involved in the Denver Colorado Unit for the last 5 years. As the 2005 President and Delegate, I attended the 2005 Delegates Meeting representing our Unit, so I had to figure out how things worked. I can tell you this, each Unit has it's own Constitution and Bylaws...I can only share how the DenCO Unit is set-up with regards to voting an delegate representation.

In part, our Constitution reads:

"Article VI - Business Meetings, Section 7 - A mail ballot may be used to obtain the vote of the members of the Unit on a proposal when such is deemed desirable or necessary. When a mail ballot is used to obtain the vote of the members of the Unit on a proposal, no other method of voting on such proposal shall be utilized."

and in part, our Bylaws read:

"Article VI - Delegates, Section 2 - The determination of the vote to be cast by the delegate on all proposed amendments to the Constitution of the International Club and for the election of International Officers shall be by a counted vote at any regular meeting or any special meeting called in accordance with Article VI, of the Constitution. The delate shall be bound by the results indicated by the counted vote or the vote expressed as a percentage of votes FOR and AGAINST and the results applied to the total entitled vote of the unit." (the entitled vote of the unit = the number of paid memberships)

"Section 3 - A mail ballot may be authorized by the Executive Board in lieu of the counted vote taken at a regular or special meeting and such ballot shall be mailed to all regular members by first class mail at least sixty days prior to the annual meeting of the delegates and shall be returned to the unit Recording Secretary on or before the date of the next regular or special meeting called for that purpose. The mail ballots shall be counted at such regular meeting or special meeting and the results applied as indicated in Section 2 of this article."

Click on the links at the bottom of the homepage to view the DenCO Constitution & Bylaws in full.

As the current Past President, I am still on the Executive Board of the DenCO Unit for 2006. At our April Executive Board Meeting, the Board will be voting whether or not to endorse a mail-in ballot vote for this year's motions. It is expected to be approved overwhelmingly by the Board, after which the ballots will be mailed to all 90+ of our members. The sealed ballots will be returned either by mail or in person to the Corresponding Secretary prior to our May Meeting/Rally. They will be opened and counted by a committee of tellers composed equally of a person(s) for and person(s) against and witnessed by the Corresponding Secretary at the May Rally immediately prior to the Regular Business meeting. The result will be made public and the delegate will be directed how to register our vote on all the issues at International in June.

Hope this helps answer some of your questions ~

Shari
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Old 03-28-2006, 04:41 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideOut
As much faith as Leo has in me, I am not an expert in overall voting precidents and proceedures. I am just an ordinary member who has been involved in the Denver Colorado Unit for the last 5 years...Shari
Very good explanation, Shari. Karma for you! Good to see that your unit is moving to a mail ballot for this issue. How are you getting the information out to people who might not be up on all the buzz on the internet? Also, when you take a vote at your business meeting, do your bylaws require a quorum be present to make the bigger decisions?

Thanks again! -J
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Old 03-28-2006, 07:05 AM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
First that was a bad example by the mere fact that you have more YES votes than NO votes...

Let's fix this but good!

207 members
70 attend the business meeting and vote
55 vote NO (now we're talking!)
15 vote YES
15/70 = 21.4% of the unit votes YES
55/70 = 78.6% of the unit votes NO (Don't you just LOVE it!)
so your unit casts:
207*.214= 44.3 votes YES
207*.786= 162.7 votes NO

Majority wins and you round up and down so you wind up with 44 votes for YES and 163 votes for NO.

Any takers?

__

which ever way you slice it - if JUST ONE Local Unit chooses not exercise a ballot vote(one vote per member) - the overal voting process - will be unfair.

And eligible votes - will be cast either by "percentage" of cast votes or used in a Majority Yes or No.

Our Consitution is almost verbatim of Shari's - I think the WBCCI gave out a model to follow years back - and not too much has been changed. Infact I wonder how many Units actually update their constitutions when there have been amendments in the past - like the amendements from last year - they are not showing up in our Constitution yet.

From what I have heard - our Unit will not be doing a "Mail Ballot" - however instead of a show of hands (which is so so out of this world) eligible voters will be issued a voters tab that will be collected. But we will still have the issue that only those present will be able to vote and those not present and eligible to vote will be counted in as a "Percentage" Which as far as I am concerned is still WRONG.

I think we also have to take into consideration those eligible that simply just choose NOT to cast their vote - and these should be abstensions. But we are counting them in with the percentage!!!!

I would like to request a mail vote - but as stated in our constitution it is up to the Board to deem it " desirable and necessary" - if ever there is a time this would be a good day for all units to exercise this one - or better still - the IBT could have deemed it "desirable and necessary" as the higher level of "Government".

Time and money now are an issue. But then how about a motion at the business meeting of the Unit to Call for a Ballot Vote and direct our local Boards to take the time to complete the vote before they head to the International.

Our problem too - is the people taking the votes and some of our Board are heading out early like 1 month to reach the other side of the continent thus who will be around to administer the process. There are always good reasons why. And for another reason stated - "we do not want to set a precedent" we have voted on issues in this manner from the beginning and our members have never complained".

There is always a first time...

Doing my best to keep an even keel - I have just been asked on behalf of the Executive to speak against the IBT recommendation at our coming business meeting and have 10 minutes to state the NO side. Wish me luck...

Anybody out there into constitutions - maybe a side committee of this forum could hash out some stuff that we could present to IBT or our Regions for future constitutional amendments????or at least recommendations to the Committee that was assigned the same time as the Name Change Task Force Committee.

Shari thanks for posting your C&B-L's I would do mine but the Board do not take kindly for the members to step out of bounds - guess I will have to jump in sometime to have that privilege

Well one thing is for sure folks - I can guarentee that MORE members are aware of their voting rights this year - and the current process (whether totally fair or not) and maybe more questions will arise from the ranks - to say hey - there are members out there that want to vote but can not get to a Rally or meeting to vote - and we all want to cast our vote if we so choose and if we choose not to then do not count my vote with everyone elses let it stand as an abstension.
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:05 AM   #167
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Quote:
Well one thing is for sure folks - I can guarentee that MORE members are aware of their voting rights this year - and the current process (whether totally fair or not) and maybe more questions will arise from the ranks - to say hey - there are members out there that want to vote but can not get to a Rally or meeting to vote - and we all want to cast our vote if we so choose and if we choose not to then do not count my vote with everyone elses let it stand as an abstension.
That certainly is my view of it all. You can't crunch and quote numbers and bander a supposition to majority unless the vote truly reflects real votes.

I am hoping regardless of the name change outcome that members will still press to make all information from the top down acessible, as well as a two way street from the ranks up, and voting procedures standard throughout all units with mail ballots and internet voting linked to a central database by every WBCCI number. If that has to be outsourced then so be it. I find that a better use of my membership dollars than flags, decals, and reimbursements.
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Old 03-28-2006, 09:07 AM   #168
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NAMES--NUMBERS--PROTOCOL !!!!!
It seems I've been reading this thread since the begining of time. While it's interesting reading it seems that this is all about beating a dead horse. I would bet dollars to donuts this is a done deal. I don't see how you could come to any other conclusion. If you read anything from the leadership of this organization it's pretty clear they are bias and not really concerned what the membership thinks. The problems this club has are much deeper than any name change. Example: In the Feb BB the president, Jim Franklin scolds
members for not putting numbers on their trailers. According to him we are "irresponsible"! That is followed by Dona Garner's article on MEMBERSHIP where she writes a full page on FLAG PROTOCOL !!!! I don't even own a "stinkin'" flag . Please tell me what in the world this has to do with membership????? She also mentions there has been a decrease of 7.5 percent in membership this year, WELL DUHHHHH!!!!!
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Old 03-28-2006, 09:49 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougjamie
How are you getting the information out to people who might not be up on all the buzz on the internet?
In the April newsletter (due out next week) there is going to be a point/counterpoint debate between two well respected members of our unit. The newsletter is sent to all mambers, including associates and retired. They will all be informed of the upcoming vote and procedure in the newsletter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougjamie
Also, when you take a vote at your business meeting, do your bylaws require a quorum be present to make the bigger decisions?
Yes, a qurom must be present to hold any vote per our Constitution & Bylaws.

Shari
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Old 03-28-2006, 09:53 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT6921
Shari thanks for posting your C&B-L's I would do mine but the Board do not take kindly for the members to step out of bounds - guess I will have to jump in sometime to have that privilege
How could referencing your Constitution & Bylaws be considered stepping out of bounds??? Ours are public record published in our Directory and online...

Shari
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Old 03-28-2006, 09:54 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Lewis
... I would bet dollars to donuts this is a done deal. I don't see how you could come to any other conclusion. ...
I'm curious how you came to this conclusion. I'm a "facts" kind of person so would be very interested to hear any facts you uncovered that have led you to this conclusion.
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Old 03-28-2006, 12:08 PM   #172
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name change conspiracy theory...

seems the 'no airstream' name faction is on a good roll and while the new name may be a forgone conclusion....the 'no group' is doing better than ever....

now i'm wondering perhaps this name issue can only be settled in person....
and with a vote, followed by a more motions, more votes and so on....

at the international....that's right......in oregon.....

see i'm wondering if this issue wasn't put together to get more people out to oregon this summer....
it's a long trip, attendance may be down this year and a big hullabaloo........
may be just the thing to drive it up...

those officers in berets are pretty clever.......

cheers
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Old 03-28-2006, 12:30 PM   #173
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2air do you mean heading up a filibuster caravan? Looks like we got us a convoy!
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:17 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by yukionna
I'm curious how you came to this conclusion. I'm a "facts" kind of person so would be very interested to hear any facts you uncovered that have led you to this conclusion.
yukionna--greetings from New Mexico--re: "Facts". I hope I didn't imply that I had uncovered any new or unknown facts. I actually based my conclusion on two things. One, on the articles I have read in the BB and two, the attitude in which I <gut feeling mind you> sence they were written. I guess I expected a non biased opinion from "the powers the be" rather than a position of pro change. Reading between the lines I sence, <more gut feelings> an expectancy on the part of the international president Jim Franklin that this will be passed rather than, "let's see what the membership wants". His authoritarian attitude quit frankly ticks me off. I see this expressed to those who are members at large in that they are not even concided worthy of a vote. ----- Pieman
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:51 PM   #175
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Quote:
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I see this expressed to those who are members at large in that they are not even concided worthy of a vote.
This is not a new situation that Jim Franklin had anything to do with, it's been this way for quite awhile.

Not that I agree 100%, but I believe the reasoning is that if someone is a MAL, they are on the road quite a bit and don't have a "home base" to recieve their information or a unit representative to count their vote. The International office is not set up as a unit (and shouldn't be) and doesn't have the man-power to act as one. They also don't have a delegate to represent the MAL vote at the business meetings. On the otherhand, a MAL with malicious intent could vote multiple times without a way of easily tracking them. Bottomline is, if a member choses to be MAL, they don't have all the responsibilities of belonging to a unit, but they also don't have all the benefits of membership. As I mentioned before, it's not solely a $$$ decision to be a MAL...to be a unit member of some units it would actually be less expensive than a MAL.

Shari
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Old 04-03-2006, 06:09 PM   #176
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two coins in that fountain

There was a thread on the secret society and members' impressions on the noted failure of members to exercise their responsibility towards the club.

Again, for the record, we are bald.

http://www.airforums.com/forum...secret+society
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Old 04-03-2006, 06:34 PM   #177
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We are permanently etched in, burnt in, and ghosting. Can't get the old numbers off....can't put new ones on over the somewhat there numbers either. So we either need to polish (ya right!) or put them on some plexi and suction them on for rallies.

I would love to put the numbers on if we could figure out how to get the permanently seared in ones off.
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Old 04-03-2006, 07:31 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested
There was a thread on the secret society and members' impressions on the noted failure of members to exercise their responsibility towards the club.

Again, for the record, we are bald.

http://www.airforums.com/forum...secret+society
Yep, We are and will remain bald. With a tiny exception. Members can purchase (from WBCCI Headquarters, though their Unit's Quarter Master or Treasurer) a "Car Decal" and 1/2" numbers. I've purchased these and plan to stick them on the window next to my camper's door. The decal is about 4" high and about 2 1/2" wide so it should not impact light coming into our rig. I've also purchased one for our TV. I'm pretty happy about this, I think I need to get a life.
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Old 04-03-2006, 07:54 PM   #179
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Yep, We are and will remain bald. With a tiny exception. Members can purchase (from WBCCI Headquarters, though their Unit's Quarter Master or Treasurer) a "Car Decal" and 1/2" numbers. I've purchased these and plan to stick them on the window next to my camper's door. The decal is about 4" high and about 2 1/2" wide so it should not impact light coming into our rig. I've also purchased one for our TV. I'm pretty happy about this, I think I need to get a life.
Do you have a picture of these? (And when you get a life, will you pick up an extra one for me too? )
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Old 04-03-2006, 07:56 PM   #180
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Do you have a picture of these? (And when you get a life, will you pick up an extra one for me too? )
I'll scan it into my computer. And, if my head does not explode from trying to figure out how to save the scanned item in a format that forum members can view I will be sure to pick up an extra life for you too.
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