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Old 03-10-2006, 04:11 PM   #101
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I too went there and looked at the forum. Only 360 people - not too many. I registered and the first message I saw was a statement that "The forum administrator has the right to edit, censor, delete or modify any posted message." No difference with the forums here. But there is no statement of policies as these forums have and therefore no guidelines at to what posts would be edited for which content. This leaves the door open to having WBCCI remove a thread if it doesn't like the content, for example a movement to stop the name change.

I saw few posts but what I did see is that he threads spoke of there being (generally) disappointment in the leadership but also hope that some of the changes the leadership was taking would be taking (somewhat unspecified as to what changes exactly). I also saw no posts in support of the name change.
Actually it sounded exactly like many of the discussions we have had on these forums.

But this also left me with questions. For example...How many of the 360 members are WBCCI members? Of that how many are, say, IBT, delegates, unit officers, or just represent WBCCI in any official capacity at all? That lead to further thoughts - with so few people there (and so many here) why expect that the WBCCI would be better aware of the issues expressed on that forum than over here? I bet that there are more officers, IBT and delegates registered here than over there. In fact based on a poll, there are more registered WBCCI members on these forums than total registered individuals on WBCCI forum.

Looking further, that forum has no moderation that I can see. It is a simple forum structure and I am only guessing that there are no active moderators or administrators (being as WBCCI farms out the site maintenance to an outside company). The "administrator" had only one post - a statement of the "CODE OF ETHICS". The administrator turns out to be Cindy Reed, who if memory serves me correctly is part of the office staff.

All in all, my impression is that the WBCCI forums are not a resource to carry on any discussion on any aspect of the name change or any WBCCI business because it a dead forum. On the name change there is a total of 7 posts - and not one statement in favor of the name change. Half the posts had questions and no responses by anybody stating that they are from WBCCI in any capacity.

Now on to poke around the airstream.com forums...
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Old 03-10-2006, 05:21 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azflycaster
2air, this link was made for you: http://www.imgag.com/product/full/ap/3034801/

ok azflycaster...or is it flycatcher? thanks for the bunny link...
it's funny bunnies AND meatloaf!
i'd throw ya some green .....
but the meter says i gotta spread it around first....

and cooperhawk those meatloaf receipes in the p.m. are mighty fine....

careful now, this thread might become interesting and useful....

food for all!

and happy snake saturday to all me' lucky charms......

cheers
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Old 03-10-2006, 05:45 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttercup
I too went there and looked at the forum. Only 360 people - not too many. I registered and the first message I saw was a statement that "The forum administrator has the right to edit, censor, delete or modify any posted message." No difference with the forums here. But there is no statement of policies as these forums have and therefore no guidelines at to what posts would be edited for which content. This leaves the door open to having WBCCI remove a thread if it doesn't like the content, for example a movement to stop the name change.

All in all, my impression is that the WBCCI forums are not a resource to carry on any discussion on any aspect of the name change or any WBCCI business because it a dead forum. On the name change there is a total of 7 posts - and not one statement in favor of the name change. Half the posts had questions and no responses by anybody stating that they are from WBCCI in any capacity.
I don't get it. Ok... I'm gonna be a little critical here... you want to save the WBCCI. In the very next breath you're criticizing the WBCCI's attempt to furnish you exactly what you want, a forum to discuss the WBCCI policies with it's staff, officers and membership, but today's the first time you've registered with them? And it's not good enough for you to use? It doesn't have enough members or get used enough? And you don't trust your club's leadership enough that they would allow open discussion about the club and decisions they're making? And you're afraid of censorship without ever having actually posted there? And yet you're passionate about the club name?

Anyway, my point is... other than being critical about it here what are YOU going to do about it there? It's YOUR club!

Roger
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Old 03-10-2006, 05:51 PM   #104
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Buttercup, you raised a lot of puzzlements in your post above. Did you raise them in the new forum? It would be interesting to see the responses directly from the WBCCI. This looks like the time to do it Happy posting! ~G
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Old 03-10-2006, 06:11 PM   #105
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Roger,

Are you registered there? Have you posted there? Funny because when I joind this forum, I did so because it was everything that WBCCI's forum is not. I made a critical judgement then - only difference was that it was in favor of ASForums. Doesn't matter... The response is simple. I took a suggestion to go there and post. I looked around. And there is only one thing to say about it - it's a dead forum, period. But I will answer your questions...
Yes
Perhaps
Definitely
I do not
I am not
Yes, I am - you had to ask?

Wheel is right - damned if you do and damned if you don't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 85MH325
I don't get it. Ok... I'm gonna be a little critical here... you want to save the WBCCI. In the very next breath you're criticizing the WBCCI's attempt to furnish you exactly what you want, a forum to discuss the WBCCI policies with it's staff, officers and membership, but today's the first time you've registered with them? And it's not good enough for you to use? It doesn't have enough members or get used enough? And you don't trust your club's leadership enough that they would allow open discussion about the club and decisions they're making? And you're afraid of censorship without ever having actually posted there? And yet you're passionate about the club name?

Anyway, my point is... other than being critical about it here what are YOU going to do about it there? It's YOUR club!

Roger
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Old 03-10-2006, 06:23 PM   #106
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No, I'm neither registered there nor would it be appropriate to post there as I'm no longer a member of WBCCI. But I'm not the one being critical of the club's management or the direction they're setting.

You seem to have the motivation to try to fix what you percieve needs to be fixed, yet you seem to me to be bent only on criticizing, stirring the pot and rabble rousing rather than effecting positive change.

It's not my intent to incite or demean you and your efforts. I just see them as a fruitless waste of time in the wrong place, and you seem happy to just plug along spinning your wheels.

My observations are meant to be objective and friendly, and I hope you take them that way. I've said my piece on the issue. Thanks for listening.

Roger
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Old 03-10-2006, 09:55 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
Hi Fred! I sent you an email with attachments yesterday -- I hope you got it...
Yes I did, and I just quickly looked at them now. Thanks! I was gone all day yesterday and busy today with other things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
Have you ever spent any time over at wbcci.org in their forums? It's the one place where you can actually find out if a tree makes a sound if it falls in the woods and NOONE is there to hear it. Crickets also come to mind... The right place is where the action is and that's here, that is unless there's a movement to remove the WBCCI sub-forum.
I was making a helpful suggestion to you and Buttercup to expand your audience by also posting your messages on the WBCCI Forum to ignite a dialogue and discussion there, which in my view is another appropriate location that might get the attention of WBCCI officers and WBCCI members who are not on this Forum.

When this Forum began, it had very few members and posters. If the early viewers and lurchers sniffed that there were fewer than 350 members on this Forum and it was therefore "dead" and not deserving of their time, effort and input, it never would have grown to its present size. Capice?

Since I'm not up to creating a parable, I'll post a simple analogy: if you want to spread the gospel, you have to preach beyond the choir, which is already in the church. If you want to convert the heathen, you should seriously consider posting on www.webeeheatherns.com.
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Old 03-10-2006, 11:31 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yukionna
I have another question -- this question is for those people with "vote no name change" avatar's. Why do you have avatar's that say "vote no name change" when the name change is a done deal? I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from.

From what Shari indicated in her post, the delegates voted "yes" to the name change last year so voting "no name change" doesn't seem to be an option here. It seems the only option is to vote on WHAT the new name will be not IF the name will change. Again, I'm just trying to understand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yukionna
I thought the "done deal" was that the name IS going to change. What I thought was NOT the done deal is WHAT the name will be. So, my understanding is that this June the delegates will vote either yes or no to if the name will be AOAI. If the majority is "yes" then the name will change to AOAI; if the majority is "no" then a new name will be decided on and presented to the delegates for voting. Am I missing something?
Quote:
Originally Posted by yukionna
I think I understand now. Initially I was confused when I saw your avatars because I interpreted them as we still had a chance to vote "no" against the name change which is not the case. A "no" vote will only delay the inevitable name change, right?
Yukionna,
I beleive you've got it. I can say that I sport a "Vote No Name Change" Avatar because:
A. It was available.
B. I do not support AOAI and I want to encourage others to vote against it.
C. It is a non-violent way to protest.
D. It's fun!

I personally am not opposed to adding Airstream to the WBCCI Club Name, perhaps as something like the Wally Byam Airstream Club (WBAC), but quite frankly, I see very little need to do so, so if a motion comes forward to table the whole idea I would be happy to support that.

I believe that if AOAI is defeated, WBCCI Leadership will most likely give it another try, and send another proposal to the membership next year. Hopefully, that 2nd attempt will be a less extreme change from the current name of the club (perhaps something like WBAC?). If that second attempt is not so extreme, I probably won't oppose it. If it passes, so be it. But if that fails, I could very easily see WBCCI tabling the whole name change idea. I would think after two failed attempts it would become obvious to WBCCI Leadership that a name change would not a worth spending any more time or money on.

But these are only suppositions. Time will tell how this will all finally play out. All I know is that I will continue to try to defeat AOAI in a positive and constructive manner. I have been in contact with one of my Units (I submitted an editorial to the Newsletter as well as talked about this issue at a luncheon, . . . and I will contact my other Unit soon). I have also been in contact with my Region and even an International Officer to express my opinion on this proposal. Unlike the image presented by some folks here, at least some of us that are opposed to the name change are trying to influence this decision inside WBCCI as well as expressing our opinions here.

Thanks for your interest on this issue.
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Old 03-11-2006, 05:12 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Overlander
But these are only suppositions. Time will tell how this will all finally play out. All I know is that I will continue to try to defeat AOAI in a positive and constructive manner. I have been in contact with one of my Units (I submitted an editorial to the Newsletter as well as talked about this issue at a luncheon, . . . and I will contact my other Unit soon). I have also been in contact with my Region and even an International Officer to express my opinion on this proposal. Unlike the image presented by some folks here, at least some of us that are opposed to the name change are trying to influence this decision inside WBCCI as well as expressing our opinions here.

Thanks for your interest on this issue.
66Overlander -- Your views and answers to Yukionna's questions are very nicely expressed. Thank you for speaking on this!

I was wondering if you would be willing to share your newsletter editorial (by email perhaps?) with me and others who are interested in it, to help us write our own letters or opinion and informational pieces for our local units. You seem to have a good handle on what has transpired and what might happen with the upcoming vote.
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Old 03-11-2006, 07:52 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
The past is important when dealing with the future. I can give you some history, but facts as to what is coming up -- those are closely held by the chosen few...

THIS post will help you understand how this all got screwed up -- I'm assuming you've never seen it, but I reserve my right to change my assumption based on your feedback...

http://www.airforums.com/forum...63-post35.html

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Thanks for the link to that post -- I had not seen that before. FYI -- for anyone who hasn't seen the Blue Book and/or the 2006 Blue Book changes yet, this information is online in PDF format on the New England Unit website: http://www.wbcci1.org/ne/links.htm.
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Old 03-11-2006, 09:24 AM   #111
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Old 03-11-2006, 09:45 AM   #112
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Exactly! But I couldn't find the section on flamingo placement in all those pages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Van
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Old 03-12-2006, 06:14 AM   #113
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Name change for the better?

A national caravan leader pointed out to me a reason we may not want to change our name to more closely associate the club with "AIRSTREAM". He says "The caravan leaders always use the WBCCI name when dealing with comercial campgrounds while making reservations". They do that because the company run "AIRSTREAM" caravans have abused the relationships with the campgrounds in dealing with them. Changing the club name to included "AIRSTREAM" might cause the campgrounds to confuse their caravans with the company caravan's leadership and make dealing with them more difficult.

I would also like to point out: Some time ago we finally let Argosy owners become part of the club. We are no longer an "AIRSTREAM" club. The Argosy folks are good people and we welcome them. Changing the club name to include the word "AIRSTREAM" but not Argosy might rub some salt into old wounds. It would also prevent us from bringing up (for consideration) the possibility of allowing other brands into the club some time in the future.

In some discussions with non-Airstream campers, they seem to think the word "AIRSTREAM" has an elitist and snobish ring to it. I wonder were they got that idea, with new "AIRSTREAM" travel trailers selling for over $50,000 and motorhomes into the $200k range. Vintage trailer club names have a more lovable "retro" image. From my experience (being a long term VAC member) it seems that faction of the WBCCI is more youthful and growing. There still are alot of older Airstreams out there. The prices are more reasonable for younger less affluent families. VAC seems to have a more relaxed, fun atmosphere at their events. They also seem to enjoy better relationships with the press and the outside public.

For a friendlier sounding name the inclusion of "FAMILY" might have a more active image. al la "FAMILY" motor coach association". Membership in WBCCI is a family membership and we would like to attract families of any age to participate in the fun.

Most of the membership like to camp. (be that when having local park rallies, regional rallies or participating in caravaning. Inclusion of "camping" in the name might be more indicative of the majority of our activities than only "caravaning" which is more difficult to participate in.

The inclusion of the word "INTERNATIONAL" in the club name seems out of proportion to the amount of members outside the North American continent and the number of the club's truely international events. It also sounds stuffy.
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Old 03-12-2006, 01:53 PM   #114
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Excellent points, Dwightdi!

Do us all a favor and write that up and mail it to your region representatives. Someone ought to hear that viewpoint inside the club!
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Old 03-13-2006, 07:13 PM   #115
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I'd like to share some things with the group. First the name change and how it all began. I'm having trouble finding that myself but I believe Buttercup is correct. The concern began when membership was declining and the debate began to perhaps get some insight as to why. In 2004 a survey was sent to all members.

FACT there was a 13% return. That means of the 5,634 members 1,498 people responded. It goes on to say the The Delegates Voted to include the name Airstream in the Club name and determine the most cost effective and effective method to be implememnted at the earliest date.
FACT the word "included" has been what has been presented over and over again. Not change the name, not remove this and that but rather include Airstream. The survey question also asked if the membership wished to "include" the name Airstream in the club name.

FACT that didn't happen nothing was INCLUDED, the name was changed. Things are now in motion and I might add that the way it is being presented is presented in such a manner that it seems like it is a done deal.

It is not! We allowed it to go this far prehaps because the question what to include Airstream and that did not seem so bad at the time. But now the powers that be are leading us down that path they want to take us.

If we don't want it we need to organize ourselves and JUST SAY NO!
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Old 03-13-2006, 09:02 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgesch
FACT there was a 13% return. That means of the 5,634 members 1,498 people responded.
You might want to recheck your math.

Dennis
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:48 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
You're a little late to the party -- but we've all been told that already so hey -- why not!
Until the vote is taken, it is never too late.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
People here are getting sick and tired and tired and sick of this whole thing, so for your benefit I'll PM you a few things you should look at -- especially as you want to write an article.
Please feel free to share those thoughts in this thread so that others can benefit. If people are "sick and tired", as you indicated, then that is their problem and they can choose to not read the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 65GT
Glad to see you chimed in -- who knew there'd be someone new that might be interested in all of this stuff...
I have a feeling there are many "lurkers" out there who are very interested in this stuff. I know because, until recently, I was one of them.
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Old 03-14-2006, 03:19 PM   #118
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Old 03-14-2006, 05:10 PM   #119
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Regarding the math

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmotini
You might want to recheck your math.

Dennis
Hi Dennis, It wasn't my math the survey results were published in the Blue Beret on August 2005. I'm glad to see how many people are for NOT changing the name. I have always felt as you all seem to, that it would make very little difference. Im not really late on anything I just spend more time reviewing information. Research is something I do so I know a bad piece of work when I see it.
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Old 03-14-2006, 06:07 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgesch
Im not really late on anything I just spend more time reviewing information. Research is something I do so I know a bad piece of work when I see it.
Oh dear no, you are not late! That was just a bit of tongue in cheek for all the good folk that have been telling us that its been stated and overstated and see no more need of it (no name change talk, that is.)

You'd think if one had enough they would avoid the thread knowing its purpose and not begrudge others the opportunity to review some of the info they have claimed to become tired of.

And any way you do the math is adds up to bad news if we don't just vote no.
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