Motor Home Amendment Invalid

[rickandsandi]

As noted above, if you want to belong to an exclusive Airstream organization you would join WBCCI. That was they way it always was and should continue. Isn't it interesting that the individuals who are now apparently pushing to allow non-Airstream products into our organization, are the same who not that many years ago started a campaign to stop MoHo made by AS into the organization, in addition fought to keep out Argosys?

[mistral blue]

Originally Posted by Buzzy4

Could it be that this non-Airstream SOB motorhome thing is a diversionary tactic in the name change war?

After all, both ammendments were introduced by the same people. The ploy being that if you really want to guard against SOB's; having Airstream in the name will exclude other brands by default.

Ed

Interesting stategic thinking Ed. I hope you're wrong. It's a conspiracy theory that, even if true, would be impossible to prove without some direct and compelling evidence. Most likely from a conspirator. Not a likely scenario here.

For the record, I will be voting against the IBT's proposed amendment to our Constitution. Clearly, for two years in a row, the IBT has come up with incredibly shortsighted, divisive and ill-advised proposals. I believe they have lost whatever "vision" they had and should be held accountable for their actions. I am, however, taking this year's proposed amendment at face value. I don't need any more incentive to vote against it. It's a terrible idea IMHO. All by itself.

[Minnie's Mate]

Originally Posted by JimGolden

Has Thor/AS done any market research to see if there'd be an interest in bringing back the "classic" looking motorhomes? Maybe I'm over simplifying here, but why couldn't they take a 34' shell and put a nose plug on it and have a new super touring motohome that looks like the vintage trailers? I would think they'd appeal to the Hollywood set if nothing else.

While Airstream is a division of Thor Industries, it is allowed to operate pretty much autonomously. It isn't Thor's normal process to be involved in making Airstream decisions on a daily basis.

A few years ago Airstream did exactly what you have pondered. They went so far as to have the technology for a fancy aluminum vacuum forming process developed for the intricate parts and, IIRC, may have even built a new facility or renovated an existing one or something to be dedicated to the "New Classic" motorhome. The new Classic Motor Home was very sharp. The mock-ups showed that it wasn't a re-introduction of the original, but it was a reinvention of the original. This wasn't too long after the new Class A was introduced. But less than a year before going into production Airstream pulled the plug on the whole project and said it was still on the drawing boards if they decided to green light the project at some time in the future.

One scenario said this new vacuum forming process proved to be too expensive. Another said the whole concept was too expensive. Another said there wasn't enough market for an all aluminum bodied Class A. Another said the building that would have housed the new Classic line was damaged/distroyed in a fire. Yet another said the new Classic would have been too expensive to find a market and the most believable one, IMHO, said that Airstream came to the conclusion that they wanted out of the motor home market altogether. Which is the most accurate? I haven't a clue.

[JimGolden]

That's really too sad about the new classic motorhomes. I bet they would have been really nice.

I know Jackson Center did have a fire some time ago. I'd called out there to get some information (I don't recall what) on my '77 and they said the records had been lost in a fire.


To keep prices reasonable, though, why couldn't they just mate a travel trailer's upper shell onto a motorhome chassis. Then just develop a new front end. They could build the shells on the same bucks they do the trailers on.

The truth, sadly, is that there probably isn't enough market out there to justify building them. They would have to cost a lot more than the trailers, which already cost a lot. And anyone other than a hard core airstream addict would probably rationalize that a SOB Class A is more bang for the buck. Honestly, I've seen some really nice Class A's. Not just Prevosts, but I've seen some superb looking units for "only" $180K

Of course I paid "only" $2.5K for my rig After I put $10K more in it, I'll have what I think is swank for my uses...

[wheel interested]

I would think that Airstream and it's workers and production department must have been very disappoiinted not to have been able to go forward with the anniversary year's cool new reinvented motorhome as planned. I believe it was mentioned by Larry Huttle at the IBT Rally, that in the space that was to be the housing for the new motorhome division, a complex of Thor Corporate offices will be erected instead.

I don't know, would Thor see a much better bottom line selling Class As to the WBCCI then spending money to get money back on Airstream motorhomes when they already have many different motorhome facilities at their disposal? Does Thor care about the pride of Airstream workmanship and design or did they just scoop up an iconic rv manufacturer and apply pressure to compete with numbers of its other lines?

[tincantom]

Airstream thought they could sell 5th wheels because it was a hot mareket at the time. Then a few years later they thought the same thing about the big MH market. I'm not sure they had that much problem with the classic MHs. IMHO basically the Airstream owners (I read somewere that 70% of their overall sales were to WBCCI members?) didn't want to buy 5th wheels and for the most part the big boxes (possibly a lot due to the prices) and the non WBCCI people, not being brand loyal, found much better bargains with other brands.
tom

[tincantom]

Sorry folks. I guess I lost track of where I was way off topic here
Appologies,
tom

[wheel interested]

Were you Tom? I didn't think so. I think we are all trying to guess just what motivated the WBCCI leaders into introducing the motion to allow other brand motorhomes into the club. I think anything that could possibly shed some light on just how we got to the point where we are today is topical.

It is so peculiar to so many. The motorhome owners would not be forced to leave, if 800 members already own Airstream motorhomes, why do they need non-Airstream motorhomes the year Airstream stops making them? Why would letting Thor products into the club be a membership boon? Perhaps we are stunned and trying to work through this but also thinking it is time to defend our club. I'm not off topic am I? This is the place where we came to post about the WBCCI the club that is and has been for over 50 years an Airstream only club, right?

[bfred]

As an owner of a 2003 land yacht 396XL, I never got a survey and you all know by now, I am totally opposed to the amendment to allow SOB's in the WBCCI. I also stated before, that if all MH's were banned from the WBCCI, I would miss all the friends we have made, but would understand.
The Airstream name is synonymous with the trailers and most motorhomes are just an afterthought, but we have a great club open to us that trailer owners do not. The IBT I feel are dedicated, but too many ex-military or retired school personel who are used to giving out orders without much rebuttal.

[Minnie's Mate]

bfred, I too oppose the amendment, but I would hate to see a ban on motorhomes, land yachts or classics. These were made by Airstream and, IMHO, deserve to be in the WBCCI. But it is the Four Winds motorhomes that I don't think should be allowed into the club.

[tincantom]

Back to the original post, the motion may be invalid for another reason. Am I wrong or did the maker of this motion refer to the membership in the "Airstream RV Owners Association"? If so, this motion would not apply to the membership of the WBCCI since there is no ARVOA, altho apparently Mr. Emlinger would like there to be

[Alumatube]

We are new Airstream classic motorhome owners as of a month ago, and after seeing everything that is going on with the WBCCI, we want no part of it. We had heard of it a long time ago and thought it was very cool, but it looks like it has broken down, some very irregular things are being done, and the original purpose has been lost or superseded.

We would enjoy a club that accepts our classic motorhome, but the joy we would get from it is from being with people who have machines and trailers similar to ours, not in the big fiberglass apartments on wheels. Airstream has something very original and unique with their campers, and that kind of club is what we would have enjoyed participating in.

Oh well. Guess we'll just go on doing our own thing, enjoying the heck out of our unique dream machine!

Susan

[WALLY 54]

Originally Posted by Alumatube

We are new Airstream classic motorhome owners as of a month ago, and after seeing everything that is going on with the WBCCI, we want no part of it. We had heard of it a long time ago and thought it was very cool, but it looks like it has broken down, some very irregular things are being done, and the original purpose has been lost or superseded.

We would enjoy a club that accepts our classic motorhome, but the joy we would get from it is from being with people who have machines and trailers similar to ours, not in the big fiberglass apartments on wheels. Airstream has something very original and unique with their campers, and that kind of club is what we would have enjoyed participating in.

Oh well. Guess we'll just go on doing our own thing, enjoying the heck out of our unique dream machine!

Susan

Hi Susan,


The WBCCI that many of us are rallying for is the one that you speak of here in your post.

I, personally, am sorry that you feel discouraged the way you do. But, based on the current goings-on of the club, I can understand your dismay and discouragement.

It is precisely members of your integrity that we need in the group to help us ensure that the ideals of Wally Byam stand true and prosper. I hope that you will reconsider your decision. There are many Units around the U.S. that feel the same way that you do and are working to change things accordingly.

It would be great to see pics of your rig and keep us posted of your adventures, here on the forums.

Cheers,
k

[WALLY 54]

Originally Posted by tincantom

Back to the original post, the motion may be invalid for another reason. Am I wrong or did the maker of this motion refer to the membership in the "Airstream RV Owners Association"? If so, this motion would not apply to the membership of the WBCCI since there is no ARVOA, altho apparently Mr. Emlinger would like there to be

Ya know, tincantom, I was wondering the same thing myself.

WBCCI... if you can't say it or understand it... learn!

[SwampBillies]

Alumatube
We are new Airstream owners also. We did however join WBCCI and I recommend it. It certainly has its issues. Doesn't any large organization? But if we all just throw up our hands and never have our voices heard, how will it ever improve? No matter what issues you find with the club, there is no comparison to pulling up and seeing hundreds of airstreams and airstreamers all in one place! If enjoying people with similar rigs is something you enjoy, I recommend giving it a try. You will not find a nicer group of people anywhere. Except maybe on this forum, but then again, they are Airstreamers also!
SwampBillies

[Minnie's Mate]

I agree with you Swapbillies. I guess that is why we joined the WBCCI last year. I knew there was an issue about the name change and as a new member I stayed out of it. Actually, I waited until after the International to join so I wouldn't be in the fray. Anyway, I didn't want to wait until the organization changed to the demographics I wanted to become a member to join. I would have been waiting a long time and would have missed a lot of opportunities if I had. I would have also missed the opportunity to be a part of the process of the changes that will be coming down the pike if the WBCCI is to survive and grow its membership.

I don't think change will come fast, but I think it will experience a metamorphosis over the next 10 years if it is to survive and I really don't think allowing SOB's into the club is a part of that metamorphosis. If it is, then I think I will rethink my membership.

I think as a corporate body, we have to draw a line in the sand and say "Airstream products on our side and SOB's on the other!" I also think that there will be no significant growth and no change for the better until the internal strife ends and the IBT stops with these divisive motions that serve nothing to benefit the club and much to divide the club. "A house divided cannot stand."

[Nuvite-F]

Alumatube,

Originally Posted by Alumatube

We are new Airstream classic motorhome owners as of a month ago, and after seeing everything that is going on with the WBCCI, we want no part of it.

I agree with the previous replies. Please don't judge the WBCCI on the basis of the squabbles you see on the forums. These arguments take place here (and on the WBCCI forum) because there really isn't any other public arena for them.

If you join the WBCCI and go to some rallies I think you will find that you will be welcomed and that WBCCI politics is seldom if ever mentioned outside of business meetings--which you don't have to attend unless you want to. In general, our experience has been that the smaller rallies like unit and the smaller regional rallies are friendlier and more laid-back.

There are significant differences between units. I would suggest initially joining the WBCCI as a member at large, or better yet, as a member of the Washington DC Unit (WDCU) which is really a "virtual unit"--I don't know that they have any members in Washington, DC. WDCU unit dues are only a dollar a year so it's less expensive than joining as a member at large, and will also give you an opportunity to vote on issues like the non-AS motor home proposal. (Which is in all likelihood going to be rejected.) This will give you an opportunity to attend rallies of any unit you want and see if you want to join them either as an affiliate or as your primary unit.

WBCCI is really about meeting new friends and having fun together--politics only rears its ugly head occasionally. Unfortunately the non-Airstream motor home proposal is one of those occasions.

See you down the road,
Nuvi

[Alumatube]

Thanks, everyone, for the nice and informative responses to my earlier post. We got our 310 as a way to reduce some of the insane stress in both of our lives, and some of that stress had been brought on previously by my getting sucked into the politics of the clubs and organizations we belong to (past president of a Triumph club and our local water association, for example). It is hard for me to not get caught up in causes, and all we want to do with this is just enjoy camping time with like-minded folks, not be affected by the political issues within a club. That REALLY takes the joy out of it for us.

I will keep an open mind on the WBCCI and promise I will look into it again when the current angst has settled down.

Thanks!
Susan

[Nuvite-F]

Susan,

Originally Posted by Alumatube

I will keep an open mind on the WBCCI and promise I will look into it again when the current angst has settled down.

In addition to which, in just two years your "tube" will be eligible for membership in the Vintage Airstream Club. (And your older trailer already is.) Now that's a fun organization!

See you down the road,
Nuvi

[wheel interested]

Looks like Metro Detroit's April newsletter is coming out for FourWinds Motorhomes at least from the Past International President and the current Unit President.

The President’s Corner By Maury Runyan
As March winds down into less then nine remaining days and with snowbirds slowly but steadily departing T. R. to head directly home or those who chose to meander on a more leisurely schedule, traveling north geared to the pace of good weather.
Meanwhile, I have been digesting the flurry of written material related to the Class A motorhome issue to be voted on at the Delegates meeting in Perry, Ga.
You may recall the "News and Rumors" article, written by an associate member, which appeared in the March "Newstream" has been challenged for accuracy by several members of our unit.
Three days ago my copy of the "Classic Airstream Club" newsletter arrived filed with five, count them 5, pages of reasons not to support the proposed motorhome vote to allow Four Winds Motorhomes to be branded as Airstream Edition. This article centered on several key areas, and questioned the quick survey conducted in late 2006 by unit presidents as requeted by a club officer as to the number of Class A Motorhomes in each unit owned by current members. The contention being, the survey was hasty, and should have gone into much more depth and detail, i.e. Do you plan to replace your current Airstream Motorhome, if so when? You could save thousands by having your current unit refurbished both as to interior and even powerplant and traindrive? Is the fuzzy thinking or what? We are talking about 860 Class A Motorhomes, 12 of which are affiliated with Metro-Detroit.
Much of this information and criticism has been posted and circulated on the internet. Remember, the Classic Club no doubt still regrets allowing the fiberglass motorhome into WBCCI!
So where does all this leave us? I know since our rejoining this club in 2002, we have witnessed a steady downward spiral in membership, which now hovers between six and seven thousand paid members.
Although our own unit board had not taken a stand on this issue at this time, it does indeed appear to this writer if this club is to survive a new source of members must be found. It should be obvious by now we cannot count on the Airstream Company to develop new products to enhance WBCCI membership. I know of no one planning to purchase a new "Base Camp" unit in order to join Metro-Detroit!
Our best experience in WBCCI had been the wonderful people we have met and traveled with over the past four years, as well as the formation of lasting friends in our unit, the Michigan unit, Mid-East unit and the VAC.
For once and for the sake of this well founded, long existing travel club let’s pull thgether and support this proposal.
Have a safe trip heading back to Michigan – see you at shake down in May or at Region 4 in Ohio.
__________________________________________________ ___________
A Letter To The Editor (excert from April Metro Detroit newsletter)
The exective committee met with Larry Huttle of Airstream and Richard Regial of Thor to discuss the current situation with the motor home problem facing the members in WBCCI. They agreed to research this problem, and it came down from both Richard Regial Thor and Larry Huttle that the President of Four Winds Motor homes would agree to join into the club and furnish motor homes to WBCCI members.
Indication given by many is why not let any Thor produce in. Folks the reason if you did not know Airstream supports WBCCI in the name of about $100,000.00 per year. Four Winds Mfg has agreed to come aboard and support WBCCI to. Now if you open this club to any motor home has indicated, you would lost all the support from Airstream and Four Winds. This means the members would absorb any of that lost. That means that our dues will go up and you do the math on what that would be. Now talk about losing members you have nailed it.
This was an agreement with all three parties, Airstream, Thor (Four Winds Class A motor homes) and WBCCI International Board Trustees. Our constitution calls for a vote from the members to make a change in the constitution as you all know. If passed what does this do, it will increase membership, keep the folks in that have motor homes, and the part that was suggest there are a lot of new (2005) Airstream motor homes at dealers is not true, there are very few, and I wonder if the person making that state would buy a 2 or 3 year old model?
Four winds makes both pushers and gasoline motor homes, and I under stand they have about 30 or more floor plans, which Airstream did not? I am looking to save our club and the only way to do that is by having members. This bid to save Wally, I think is wrong, we are keeping the name and this just insure we keep it. Change is here, some of us don’t like it, but we will have to learn to live with it.
I feel it is necessary that Metro Detroit and all other units vote yes in letting in these motor homes and lets save Wally if you will (Wally Byam Caravan Club International) and make this great club grow.
Norm Hewer
Member of Metro Detroit and Past International President.