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Old 02-13-2010, 10:25 AM   #41
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I could go for a black ribbon on the badge, but that probably violates some "badge protocol" rule.

We will be at Sarasota, parked in vintage
Then the black ribbon on the badge works even better. Friends of ours were criticized, by a region officer, for two pins on their badges, and they still wear the pins.

The ribbon on the badge cannot be ignored as easily as a black armband,

Bill
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Old 02-13-2010, 04:50 PM   #42
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How about you write a letter like Paul asked? He did not want you to put ribbons on your badges or your arms, he wanted you to write a letter to the guys you pay to lead you. How about a little focus on the thread ...

... in my never humble opinion, you are wasting your time with arm bands and taping your badges. Your just being there shows YOUR support for their actions.
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Old 02-13-2010, 05:03 PM   #43
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How about you write a letter like Paul asked? He did not want you to put ribbons on your badges or your arms, he wanted you to write a letter to the guys you pay to lead you. How about a little focus on the thread ...

... in my never humble opinion, you are wasting your time with arm bands and taping your badges. Your just being there shows YOUR support for their actions.
Frank,

Why should I listen to your advise, you left the club. Your solution is to withhold money, not correspond with the leadership. Only time will tell which approach will work.

I have written about the Mid Winter Meeting and I will write about Leo's ouster. I think a black arm bank or ribbon on the badge shows the rest of the membership what one thinks and it will get attention, just like my SaveWally pin and 4CU pins do.

SYDTR,

Bill
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Old 02-13-2010, 05:09 PM   #44
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like this Bill?
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How ever you are still paying their way, sorry but you are. You don't have to listen to one word I say as they listen to nothing you say either... Yes a quitter am I. Or am I a starter?
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Old 02-13-2010, 05:22 PM   #45
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like this Bill?
Attachment 96104
How ever you are still paying their way, sorry but you are. You don't have to listen to one word I say as they listen to nothing you say either... Yes a quitter am I. Or am I a starter?

Frank,

That works, but who inside the club will see it? I never said you were a quitter, I said you left.

Bill
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Old 02-13-2010, 06:03 PM   #46
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I was only a member for 2009....but does anyone have the say last 10 years of the member numbers....that they could submit to show the downward trend that is going on with people dropping out of this club....maybe a highlight to someones letter.
I have been tracking both unit and total membership numbers since 1996 using the information provided in the annual WBCCI Directory.These are unofficial numbers but should give you a good idea.

1996-10300 members
1997- 9848 members
1998- 9547 members
1999- 9085 members
2000- 8750 members
2001- 8467 members
2002- 8073 members
2003- 7844 members
2004- 7540 members
2005- 7504 members
2006- 6913 members
2007- 6553 members
2008- 6394 members
2009- 6092 members
2010- 5947 members

There is a trend and it is consistently down.Despite the hard work of many I see nothing to suggest this trend will reverse at this point.
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Old 02-13-2010, 06:09 PM   #47
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Holy Blue Beret batman that is a whammy of a trend...
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Old 02-13-2010, 06:13 PM   #48
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Frank,

That works, but who inside the club will see it? I never said you were a quitter, I said you left.

Bill
And I won't be returning either. Paul was asking for letters, not notions to show one's protest. Put up your letter and let the men with the roast beef lunch know how you feel. Don't fight with me over this, write your letters and let Paul forward them as a group. Maybe by doing that you might actually be heard from within or from the outside. The point is being heard.
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Old 02-13-2010, 06:14 PM   #49
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wow Mike
thanks for all that info....i think that is awful that the ones who should truly see the BIG picture is just causing more problems.....that is sad, and as everyone else here does agree about this is supposed to be for the fun, and love of camping and friends!!!!! It truly is a same that some people forget what things started for.
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Old 02-13-2010, 08:47 PM   #50
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I've posted the following letter

FYI,

I've posted the following letter on the WBCCI Forums website in hopes the IBT/EC7 will be told about it. I will still be sending in hard copies of letters on this thread to HQ and ask that they be sent to the IBT/EC7.

"Members of the IBT/EC7,

I’m writing to you about the subject of Leo G’s membership expulsion from the WBCCI. I can understand you may not like what he has to say, how he says it and what he thinks about the leadership of this club at the International level. The point is, he has the right to stand up and say so as a member of this club. You’re always asking for input from the members, well, he gives it to you. You just don’t like what he has to say or how he does it.

If it were not for Leo and others, many of us would not know really what is going on with the $$ at the leadership level, the name change issue, wanting to bring Fourwinds motor homes into the club, etc… The bottom line, he has exposed much of what goes on at your level to the rest of the club to see. I’m sorry if you don’t like that, but many of us don’t have the time to track everything you are doing on a daily bases. I find it appalling that you find it easier to “shoot the messenger” than it is to fix many of the problems that he so clearly has pointed out.

Based on all the posts and threads I’ve ever seen Leo start or comment on anywhere on the internet (and I’ve seen them all over the years) he has “ALWAYS” been over 99% factually correct in his statements. In fact, he does more research than anyone I know “BEFORE” posting any information. If our National news media only did half the research Leo does, you could trust what they say, but, they don’t and they get “PAID” to do so!

So, here’s a guy that does his homework/research, post the information for all to see and gets bounced from the CLUB!! I’ve often wondered where the guy gets the time to do what he does and run a full time business. Granted, some may not like the “tone” of which he will sometimes speak, but they can’t say he’s incorrect. For the leadership of this club to bounce someone out for speaking their mind, pointing out the problems and lack of leadership, shame on you.

So often you speak about “At the Unit Level” is the heart of the WBCCI. If that’s the case then, let the NY Metro Unit decided what “they” want to do with Leo’s membership in the club! To my knowledge, the NY Metro Unit has “no” problem with Leo G so why should you?

Many think the reason why you want Mr. Garvey out of the club is because he has exposed mismanagement of the club at the IBT/EC7 level. This thinking, along with the fact many members are getting tired of paying dues much of which goes to support your travel, you have done nothing but add fuel to the fire by kicking him out of the club. Every time you do something like this, more and more members leave or will not join!

I don’t mind saying, I’d be willing to give Leo $55.00 a year just to keep me informed of all the back room goings-on of the IBT/EC7 even if he were not a member! But I too am not sure if I will care next year for this could be our last year.

Also, if it’s “about the Unit”, then why does most of the membership $$ go to you? The dues in the WDCU are $56.00, $1.00 for us and $55.00 for you! Even if we were like some units that charge 10, 15, or even 20 dollars, that’s $20.00 for them and $55.00 for you! I understand the cost of the office staff, the Blue Beret and such, but when you the IBT/EC7 gets over 100K (over 20% of the dues) to go travel around and promote a bunch of rallies and the club, that I don’t understand. That’s why we have the Blue Beret, remember?

Do us all a favor, if you’re going to lead, then lead us. If you going to take our money and give nothing in return other than running around promoting the Region, Special Events and International Rallies, take the money and say “Thank You”. But don’t, take our money, not lead us and kill the geese that are giving you the Golden Egg!

This is the “members” club too, not just the IBT/EC7. You guys/ladies are reminding me more and more of the people in Washington, DC running this country. You’re doing what you want to do and not listening to the very people that pay the tab for you to be there.

Thank you, for your time.


Paul Waddell
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WDCU Past Prez
Region 2 VAC Guy"
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Old 02-13-2010, 09:36 PM   #51
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Paul,

Thank you. You might just get kicked out yourself for that. I also am writing a letter. I will post later...
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Old 02-13-2010, 09:55 PM   #52
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I have been an Airstream owner since 1988, and a member of the WBCCI for 11 years. My wife, children, and I were members of the Pennsylvania Unit the first year we purchased our trailer. At the time, we had 4 little children. The Pennsylvania Unit at that time had a wonderful facility in Pennwoods Airstream Park, but they didn’t have anything for children. There were a bunch of older retired people in the park. We really felt out of place there. We did not feel welcome. So we let our membership lapse, and camped by ourselves for the next decade.
A member of the Vintage Airstream Intra Club convinced me in 1999 that I should join the club again ….which I did (as a member-at-large). At the International Rally in Dayton, Ohio, we met a group of people starting up a new Unit, which became the Washington D.C. Unit. Since they were family (and kid) friendly, we knew we had found our place in the WBCCI. We have made great friends in the WBCCI as a result. It has been great to watch our unit grow, and we have had great fun recruiting new members every year. I have been the webmaster for the unit for a few years now, to try to do my part to keep the unit healthy. Unfortunately, the WBCCI as a whole has lost membership every year since I have joined it. What’s wrong here?
From what I have seen, there is an “Us vs. Them” attitude within this club, which is destroying it. This club should be proud of it’s diversity instead of two separate groups attempting to make the others comply (or go away); this is not going to happen. One part of the club wants things the old way, and the other part wants change. It appears to me that the units in this club that are still growing, like the WDCU, are advocating change. In reality, the younger generation does not value the same order and regimentation that the older generation enjoys. Times are changing and so must the club ….if it wishes to grow and survive.
One of the advocates of change was Leo Garvey. I understand that he has been expelled from the club. There had better be a very good reason for this action, because Mr. Garvey was very actively coming up with some ways to save this dying club. This expulsion was very poorly timed, considering that there was an increase in dues voted for which already had a number of members disgruntled. ….Damage Control! We need Damage Control !!!
The future lies in our youth. The younger members in this club are not too happy with the way headquarters is running this club. We in the WDCU would have a very easy time gaining new members if it wasn’t for the policies at headquarters that is driving up the dues and failing to reach out to the younger Airstreamers. There are plenty of different units in this club with different types of people in them. Some older retired folks don’t want to camp with kids. That’s OK, they can do what they want. Some of us still work and we might have 5 kids. We found a group that accepted and befriended our 5 kids. For us, this was fantastic!
If there are those in this club, especially up at headquarters, that wants to keep this club as an exclusive “country club” for the rich and retired, then they might want to consider rescinding the charter of units like the WDCU. Otherwise, they are going to have to listen to the voices of change and take some visible action to reverse the downward trend in membership. Money can not be spent like there’s no tomorrow, because the number of tomorrows is rapidly coming to an end.
It is time to do SOMETHING, but the something that has been done so far this year is the WRONG SOMETHING ! Please keep our club alive so our kids will be able to enjoy it like we did.

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Old 02-14-2010, 05:07 AM   #53
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Marc your so right,I think at the unit level it can survive.Changing the way the TOP elite does things, takes time.Maybe volunteering for all positions for free . A international rally every 4 years.Will save the club maybe ,
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Old 02-14-2010, 06:24 AM   #54
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We have 35% of our dues money going to feed the egos of 34 people. We have way too many "leaders" sucking off the members. We need to get them to resign. Cutting off their funding will accomplish both goals. The problem is, those same 34 people are also the same old people who establish and control all funding. They will continue running the club to stroke their own egos and do the same old things they are familiar with and like. If we got rid of $125K of their expenses, we would have a balanced budget and the club would be financially viable. Someone tell me how we can do it, they have control and have written the rules and procedures to protect themselves and their interests.
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Old 02-14-2010, 06:35 AM   #55
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it is very easy. Stop feeding the machine...

But that is not what this thread is for. Paul asked for open letters to the IBT. There is so much anger that people just cannot hold back on commenting on how. Write your thoughts so Paul can pass it on...
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Old 02-14-2010, 07:27 AM   #56
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I think keeping the unit strong is important - they are going to be what remains after the IBT are gone - send them a donation and let them know you are still interested in being a part of THEM - but don't send in your International dues.
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Old 02-14-2010, 07:51 AM   #57
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I think keeping the unit strong is important - they are going to be what remains after the IBT are gone - send them a donation and let them know you are still interested in being a part of THEM - but don't send in your International dues.
that is exactly what I do... send my unit due.
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Old 02-14-2010, 07:58 AM   #58
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I was speaking with a retired person who is later in life. We spoke about the airstream club and he said his dad was an airstreamer who belonged to the WBCCI and he the person I spoke with was for most of his adult life. He said it has been the same argument for decades. It is the nature of the beast. Eventually those in leadership will be out and new will be in. After that happens people in the Units will become unhappy for their own reasons and the cycle will start again. This is very common in all sorts of clubs. It is not only with RV folks. I have witnessed this behavior and watched it in several different types of activities.

I once was a member of a club and decided it was to big for my needs. I decided with a buddy to start a club away from the one I was working for. I did not recruit any of their members. I sold the old club as a great club and told people to join them or stay with them and not follow me. It was a great club and I did nothing but try to sell people on why it was a good club. I did not leave because I thought it was a bad club. I left because I saw the need of the same thing on a very small scale. See, size does matter and some like big and some like small. Small fit my needs.

What happened was when I put in my letter of intent people who I thought were my friends did nothing but attack me and tell me how my new club would fail. I was told it would not make it and all kinds of negative things were said to me and I was accused of trying to undermine the big club. Other things happened which were hateful towards me and my family.

My club never effected theirs and it did not hurt their numbers or successes. The bottom line is their are members of hate in that club. I have been involved with clubs my whole life. Many have the same problems and the only difference is the hat they wear.

My small club was very successful because I never trashed the old club, I never tried to recruit the old club members. When people left my club I shook their hands and told them good luck and to say hello to me when we would run into each other at the same competition. I would make sure I complimented them on their performances and kept the door open to friendship. The bottom line was many found out the grass was not greener on the other side and returned to my club.

My buddy and I cared about those people and they knew it. They were not a number or a person to help pay the bills. They were real people who wanted to try something different.

Personally I hate to see conflict. I signed up for the birthday bash because I have never been to a group RV activity before. It was advertised as for everybody and anybody. It fits the schedule, it looks like fun, and I have never been east. I am sure it will be fun and that is what I am looking for. I hope the politics do not creep in there. Everybody just needs to chill and get on with life. The only time I would be upset is if something goes wrong with the airstream.

I can have fun hanging out with anybody as long as they are good people and do not try to ram their philosophy down my throat. I wonder if Dead Head People who follow the Greatful Dead and Jerry Garcia had these conflicts at their get togethers. Probably not. I have a friend who is in his mid 50's and has been following them since 1969. Wow! the story he tells. Now that is what I am talking about!

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Old 02-14-2010, 02:26 PM   #59
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Quote:
I was speaking with a retired person who is later in life. We spoke about the airstream club and he said his dad was an airstreamer who belonged to the WBCCI and he the person I spoke with was for most of his adult life. He said it has been the same argument for decades. It is the nature of the beast. Eventually those in leadership will be out and new will be in. After that happens people in the Units will become unhappy for their own reasons and the cycle will start again. This is very common in all sorts of clubs. It is not only with RV folks. I have witnessed this behavior and watched it in several different types of activities.
Yes, but the downward trend coupled with the deficit losses to the club only indicates the situation is worse than just a few bad years. In fact, that decline shows the situation to be grave indeed!
If this were a person sitting in a bed in hospital with all sorts of wires and tubes running everywhere and the trends were all trending downward like that, the nurses would be asking us if we had an advanced directive filled out for the patient. The doctors would be either be running around doing all they could or they would be looking with sympathy and shaking their heads - the patient doesn't look good.
In WBCCI the vital signs are looking grim. The COD will likely be, failure to thrive. And perhaps some will even say - maybe it was time....

You get the point.
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Old 02-14-2010, 04:16 PM   #60
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Yes things may get worse but always keep hope. I bet there are many terrible beatup looking airstream trailers that were one pull from going to the scrap yard. When it gets to that point people may jump ship, or be thrown overboard. When that happens I bet somebody steps up to the plate and will make things right just like when somebody takes the old aristream and brings it back to life.

You are always going to have people who want to be in leadership positions. Unfortunaltely many of those people do not have the management skills, and lack managerial qualities such as conflict resolution to deal with certain aspects of being the leader.

I feel writing letters, posting on airforums maybe falling on many deaf ears. The club is like a plant that may be ready to die. It may have to die to comeback to life again. I have seen clubs run themselves into the ground disappear for awhile only to be re-born.

I feel that the conflict just gets worse and the anger will not allow people to resolve the conflicts. Ego's have taken over and more people may end up being disappointed, labeled, booted, or harrassed. I will tell you I sure do not want to join a club that has that type of conflict.

Those people who are very angry, hurt or vindictive need to walk away from it and develop new creative strategies. The birthday bash is a very creative way to bring people together. Maybe somebody could put something like that together somewhere else.

The darkest our is just before the dawn. No matter how bad you think things may get something positive can come out of it for you and other people if they want it to. Being creative is taking the lead. I have seen clubs split threeways before. Each entity grew and became successful only to come together again under one banner after new leadership was in and old leadership was out. Not only come together but bigger and more powerful. Will it happen overnight? probably not.



go camping keep the faith, be kind, work hard and great things will happen! I do believe that.

Brian
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