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Old 02-22-2010, 05:04 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
Because you don't let a club with a 50+ year history die without a fight!
you're right... I might renew just for that... but they might file a grievance right after I renew for the letter I sent, while I was not member anymore, which was polite but without compromise... I just have to wait 30 days I guess...
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Old 02-22-2010, 05:50 PM   #142
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The WBCCI is going to die a natural death so why spend money to fight them?
Yes WBCCI is going to die a natural death unless someone steps in and stops the bleeding and restore the purpose. Some have chosen to take actions to do just that.

You may chose to remain a Mear Member as noted in your signature, and send in your dues, or you can join in and work to save whatever caused you to become a member.

Yes this will cost both sides some money but in the long run if it stops the complete lack of financial responsibility it should be less money from the treasury and we could have a functioning club again rather than a couple of dozen blow heart riding around the country on our dime doing little more that inflate my Exxon stock, which I am willing to forgo.
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Old 02-22-2010, 06:33 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
Yes WBCCI is going to die a natural death unless someone steps in and stops the bleeding and restore the purpose. Some have chosen to take actions to do just that.

You may chose to remain a Mear Member as noted in your signature, and send in your dues, or you can join in and work to save whatever caused you to become a member.

Yes this will cost both sides some money but in the long run if it stops the complete lack of financial responsibility it should be less money from the treasury and we could have a functioning club again rather than a couple of dozen blow heart riding around the country on our dime doing little more that inflate my Exxon stock, which I am willing to forgo.
At the winter IBT we ALL where called MERE members by one member of the IBT.
I became a member because of the 4CU.BUT I may not send any more money to the WBCCI because of the dues increase brought on by the lack of financel responsibility of our leaders at the WBCCI.
The death of the WBCCI will also stop the lack of financel responibility.
Right now I am not willing to send good money after bad.
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Old 02-22-2010, 06:37 PM   #144
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Because you don't let a club with a 50+ year history die without a fight!
Thats why we fight. Some from outside and some from inside.
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Old 02-22-2010, 07:06 PM   #145
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At the winter IBT we ALL where called MERE members by one member of the IBT.
My apology. I did listen to the IBT broadcast but did not remember ALL the degrading remarks used against us by those atop the hill.
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Old 08-15-2010, 10:43 PM   #146
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How's the fight going LIPets? How about an update Bob?
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Old 08-18-2010, 02:12 PM   #147
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WBCCI Remarks

Just reading some of the posts on the goings on with WBCCI and find that we were apparently not the only ones who felt after the money was received we were no longer of any interest to the club members.
We joined the Ontario chapter at a rally after being pursued by several seemingly interested club members. They felt we should not remain at large but enjoy the fellowship of the Ontario chapter.
Upon agreeing and handing over our local dues we suddenly found ourselves much less interesting and being ignored. One comment when given our receipt for joining and asking the fellow to step in was, No need we had one like this years ago !!! I think was three trailers ago, so no need to look at ours ! I was really disappointed as our 73 ,31 ft is our pride and joy with many months of hard work to bring her up to what we felt was at least worthy of someone in the club being interested enough to stop over for a drink and a visit.
We went home very put off and decided not to bother with them anymore.
They also do not get our dues anymore and I am polishing my once proud numbers from the airstream !
Sorry , but the general public seem more fun and more interested in our toy than the club formed for it.

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Old 08-19-2010, 03:23 PM   #148
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Silvertube65: I'm sorry that you had such a negative experience with our Unit. While I don't think that what you experienced is typical of our behaviour, as Unit Prez this year I have implemented a program to make sure that new members are really welcomed into the Unit. Your experience just proves that we need to do better. Personally, I take every opportunity to get a look at someone's hard work in restoring a classic beauty.

Would you consider giving us another chance?

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Old 08-19-2010, 05:55 PM   #149
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Silvertube65:

I'm not a member at large, or a member of any WBCCI unit, but I think you should give that unit another chance.

I understand that you put a lot of work into your pride and joy. Heck I put a lot of work into mine too! But I think some people just aren't as interested in restoration as the rest of us. Maybe that fellow's interest is Civil War History, or Cribbage, and he didn't want to track his dirty feet all over your carpet.

Give them another chance?
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Old 09-15-2010, 06:04 PM   #150
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Leo has there been any new developments on your expulsion or appeal?

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Originally Posted by LI Pets View Post
Here's what I recall happened.

Leo was on probation for doing something but really nothing other than supporting the club as a past unit president.

At the last IBT in June some darling wife of a guy by the name of Stumpe I believe a unit pres. tossed a BIG cup of iced tea in Leo's face or on his head.

Leo being a gentleman didn't run off and file a grievance against her as I would have, he shrugged it off.

Later last year he was on probation for supporting the club and voicing his opinions.

Mr. Stumpe filed another baseless grievance against Leo knowing he was on probation.

A hearing was requested via teleconference.

Now he declined to attend a teleconference on this grievance since there was nothing in the Bylaws, constitution or Roberts Rules indicating such a proceeding.

He was following the rules, the committee allegedly was not.

Leo stood his ground and was terminated.

IMO Leo should sue the club and get a real Court to explain how the rules of the club should apply.
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Old 09-15-2010, 06:07 PM   #151
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Following this thread and wondering what progress was made if any since February of this year.

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Equal justice for all only happens in Court
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Old 09-15-2010, 06:13 PM   #152
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I have always been a fan of history. It's interesting isn't it? I wonder if I would have really been wasting my time to have tried for a petition instead.

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Carol, your wasting your time down that road.

Setup a
Leo G

LEGAL DEFENSE FUND

With about $7500 we can get the ball rolling in Federal Court in NY

A paypal trust account could be setup to accept contributions.
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Old 09-16-2010, 12:32 PM   #153
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It appears that a petition could not have been any less successful.
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Old 10-25-2010, 12:03 AM   #154
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Unfortunately I am thinking Leo will not be reinstated especially after the legal defense fund was subverted by MNY and the DW leadership. I have my black ribbon to reinstate Leo supplied by Nuvite but I find now there is little supporters can do in the wake of the withdrawal of the lawsuit.

Not only is the expulsion of Leo an issue but there is no longer a vehicle for criticism of the club after Save Wally and the WBCCI forums have closed. Even Air Forums has put a tight reign on expression within the WBCCI subforum and wants to see an end to the matter. The real pity is that Leo was the hope for a new direction and accountability and that without him the back room deals and silencing is prevalent once again and we have lost all ground in transparency and freedom of expression. The ones that say complaining is negative have outdroned the ones that clamored for change and it appears all to be stuffed back into the box and we must grin and bear it or leave the club. That is a sad realization. Unless you are on the fast path to higher places the club is offering less for mere members these days.

I see the reversal of the DW leadership as culpable for failure of membership to have a voice in the proceedings against Leo and to holding leadership accountable for their inappropriate and prejudicial actions. Imagine - if you can - not having a conscience, none at all, no feelings of guilt or remorse no matter what you do, no limiting sense of concern for the well-being of others with no struggles with shame for any selfish, harmful, or immoral action you had taken. It's as if the concept of responsibility is unknown, except as a burden others seem to accept without question, like gullible fools. When you add to this strange fantasy the ability to conceal from other people that your priorities are radically different from theirs, since everyone simply assumes that conscience is universal among human beings, hiding the fact that a person may be conscience-free is nearly effortless. Unhampered and at liberty to do just as one pleases, with no pangs of conscience, was conveniently invisible to the supporters of the "legal defense fund" for Leo. And now there is no where to make a plea and call to action with the dissolution of the various forums and threads that are rapidly disappearing. While most of us are kept in line by our consciences some will have a definite advantage and likely remain undiscovered and even rewarded with a position of authority.

The incidence of unaccountability has a profound effect on the rest of us who must live and abide by the measures that others have put as a burden upon us. Our accomplishments and self-esteem, and our very existence within the club have been assaulted and usurped. Yet surprisingly, many people know nothing about this travesty, if they do they think only in terms of one person's alledged outspoken manner and not of the facts of what has taken place and been covered over. There have been issues that conspicuously have broken RR and the Constitution and the Code of Ethics many times over, and if properly addressed would be cause for judicial action within or out side of the WBCCI. Most members are not commonly aware of, nor do they usually identify, those that have been responsible for infractions and grievances among us the general membership, who often are not blatant spokesmen, and against whom our formal legal system in and out of the club has provided little defense, unfortunately for all of us. Simple and profound, the link is the absence of the inner mechanism that beats up on us, emotionally speaking, when we make a choice we view as immoral, unethical, neglectful, or selfish. Those who have no conscience at all are a group unto themselves. What makes an ordinary bully is nothing more than social status, drive, or simple opportunity.

And as far as I have heard no one has received a response from Metro New York Unit. And even though my Pay Pal confirmation states I have donated $100.00 USD to Metropolitan New York Unit using PayPal none of my e-mails to the unit president or the treasurer have gotten a single response. While we tried our best to pursue a course of action that Bob said was necessary eventually became Bob telling us it was not going to happen and now Leo, our opportunity to exonerate him and our money is all gone. I ask that individuals not tire out and not to become complacent but continue to expect, even demand, remedy. There should be no limitation of time or window of opportunity to doing the right thing.
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Old 10-25-2010, 04:36 AM   #155
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I have heard no one has received a response from Metro New York Unit. And even though my Pay Pal confirmation states I have donated $100.00 USD to Metropolitan New York Unit using PayPal none of my e-mails to the unit president or the treasurer have gotten a single response.
Incorrect on all points.

Quote:
our money is all gone.
Simply not true

Carol, you have stated the exact same old comments numerous times?
U are just resurrecting a dead thread w/o anything new....

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Originally Posted by Foiled Again View Post
Carol I believe that four of the Metro NY unit do want to put the whole thing behind them by refunding the money.
Paula
Who gave you that incorrect info?


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Old 10-25-2010, 05:55 AM   #156
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I remember many things my Grandfather said to me. He was a very wise man. Something he said often was "the only thing that you actually own is your honor". He also told me often that "If you tell a lie enough times, even you will believe it to be the truth." I think both saying come into play here.

JUST GIVE THEM BACK THE MONEY. No one it trying to rehash things, they just want their money back.

Carol is not resurrecting anything here, she just wants the right thing done and since it is not, she wants her money returned. She deserves her money back. Everyone deserves their money back. THAT is far from "Incorrect on all points"

Now, some spin, some denial, some twist about me not being a WB member and having no say in this situation will come out. But in the end, the money should and needs to be returned.

"The only thing you truly own is your honor"
"If you tell a lie enough times, even you will believe it to be the truth"
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Old 10-25-2010, 07:19 AM   #157
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Bob,

It’s like this. You can come up with all this stuff about “after” the mid-winter IBT meetings and depending on what comes out of them the lawsuit “may” continue and changes are coming etc.. etc.. etc..That’s all well and good.

For those that “HAVE NOT” requested their money back, continue as you have planned and enjoy. BUT, for those that “HAVE” requested their money and no longer want to be part of your game, give them back their money (and if you makes you happy even pro-rated) and be done with it. Dragging it out only hurts you, the Metro New York Unit and the WBCCI and any possible interest from those that “might” want to support a lawsuit if it ever does happen. For many it was about Leo getting the boot, right, wrong or indifferent and “HE” was the very reason why they sent in money.

At this point and time, you are making enemies out of the very WBCCI members (that donated) you say you care about and will cause them to leave the club and have hard feeling towards a WBCCI Unit they are not even a part of.

I’m sure in your business life you have found there are times you are better off returning ones money for a “perceived” lack of value in your products and you “REFUND” their money just to shut them up so they do not to bad mouth your business and may even “return” to be a happy customer someday in the future, this is no different.

The question I have:

What value are you getting by keeping money from those who no longer support your actions?
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Old 10-25-2010, 08:37 AM   #158
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Much of what I wrote in the letter below is still applicable as a call to action and discussion within your local unit to address the events and problems we have had within the WBCCI. The only points that are now out dated is the open status of a lawsuit and that MNY asking to join the effort was good news for us. The problems that spurred the action still remain. We may no longer have a suit pending but collectively we can still expect our club governance to work ethically and fairly and represent the general membership according to the guidelines that were put aside but should have been upheld in past proceedings. This also translates for the future. Communication and not censorship is vital to keep the WBCCI going. Many have watched this effort wither and rail as its head was cut off but the need for membership representation and action is as pertinent as ever. No one's expired, we have just hit a bump. It's gotten awful quiet with hushed tones and tiptoeing and yet I don't believe there are too many of us who after falling down would remain on the ground and not dust ourselves off and stand back up and do our best to remain righted. I think someone was woefully unprepared for the response recieved and that just because one holds the money, it doesn't mean you have the control, support, respect or even the attention of others.

Good Day My Fellow WBCCI Unit Presidents,

As WBCCI unit officers I am contacting you as a collective group because you are the ones in position to do the most good for the individual members of our club. I ask that you share this information with your unit members and discuss openly what the future of WBCCI will be and if having a hand in furthering progress within the club is a challenge each one of us and even entire units might take up together.

Fiscal responsibility, constitutional and by-law direction, communication and fair and open elections are important matters affecting each and every one of us in the WBCCI whether we get involved or not. We ask your help in increasing awareness of the members advocacy action to bring suit against the leadership of the WBCCI for failure to adhere to the basic tenants of their offices to be held accountable for their actions and to prevent further harassing of individuals with legal intimidation and judicial processes to suspend and expell vocal advocates.

Defend Wally is a group of Airstreamers such as yourselves who have joined together in support to assemble a pending lawsuit which can be referenced at the following link. http://defendwally.org/

The most recent successes in our effort has been having the Metro New York unit vote to support this action and ask to be listed as a principle plaintiff in the suit. Having reached the initial goal of collected funds this clears the way to our filing in Federal Court.

Other Units and individual members who share the same concerns are welcome to join us to insure the final success and this is what I am asking you and your members to do today. Examine the issues. Talk with your friends and comembers and see if you can help to make a difference. Whether you can sign up your unit to become co-plaintiffs or become a supporter yourself or even to open discussions among your friends in the club, let them know what is happening today in the WBCCI. Your interest and participation will be greatly appreciated and your involvement can only build a stronger future for the WBCCI.

Thank you,
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Old 10-25-2010, 09:51 AM   #159
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Carol et al,

I would like to mention that I have offered to Leo and others to package up SaveWally and let somebody else run it if they would like. To date, Leo has not taken me up on the offer. It still stands. If SaveWally is of great value to free speech about the club, it could be up and running again. All somebody has to do is step up to the plate.
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Old 10-25-2010, 09:52 AM   #160
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Two other WBCCI forum threads were recently closed after repeated efforts to keep the threads civil and on topic. While we recognize the emotion and passion associated with this subject we can not let the focus on the return of donated funds over run thread topics. Nor we will allow personal or group attacks.

This thread is now closed.

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