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Old 02-19-2010, 06:10 PM   #101
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I went and joined on the airforums page. then clicked on the webpage link- it took me to a go daddy page full of ads. Not a good start......
Sounds like you found something you can donate your energy towards...
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Old 02-19-2010, 07:02 PM   #102
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Frank

I got the normal e mail notification that you had posted the above post. However the link attached to that notification
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...-new-post.html

Sent me to a page that said

  1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
  2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.
Is there a problem?
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:15 PM   #103
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Frank

I got the normal e mail notification that you had posted the above post. However the link attached to that notification
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...-new-post.html

Sent me to a page that said
  1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
  2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.
Is there a problem?

The thread title was changed to remove Leos last name as a courtesy and to address a privacy concern (think search engines). In doing so, the url of the thread was changed and that's why your notice gave that message. No thread content was removed or changed.
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:44 PM   #104
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The Trial

"a fourth grievance is written and ready to be brought forward if necessary, the Grievance Committee had no other choice but to do their job and act. The EC and your President stand behind their decisions. "

Will the grievance process again be use to degrade respect for the club?

Is the “closed” grievance process more destructive than constructive?

Are we to understand that if the current grievance is dismissed, a secret 4th grievance sits prepared and ready to be served?

Is this action intended to punish a defense and discourage others?

Will it again be applied for a fourth time to intimidate and silence others?

How long will the unscrupulous continue to harass the outspoken with impunity? As long as we have an enlightened membership?

What would Franz Kafka do?
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Old 02-19-2010, 08:48 PM   #105
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What would Franz Kafka do?
What would Wally do?
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:29 AM   #106
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Leo G terminated!

In the words of Dean Wormer:

"DOUBLE SECRET PROBATION!...There is a little known codicil in the Faber College constitution which gives the dean unlimited power to preserve order in time of campus emergency."

"Youv'e done it this buster! I'm calling the national office! I'm going to revoke your charter!"

"You're out! Finished at Faber! Expelled!"

Does life imitate art?
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:30 AM   #107
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Wow, the Tom C letter is just BS... amazing!!!
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:47 AM   #108
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WHo cares now, I belong to a new airstream club.TAC, now I have a place to belong too.When they bounce me for free speech and speaking my mind .Walking the talk.,their a bunch of idiots . As a wbcci official said"We the wbcci want quality not quantity" I say lets give it to them,.strike 1.wbcci
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Old 02-20-2010, 06:55 AM   #109
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From Sarasota-
After witnessing the Collier debacle myself in person, I was struck that no only was the politics bad, it was bad in a amateurish fashion. If I am going to be hoodwinked at least give it to me better than this...

What nobody seemed to notice was that the one of the first things to fix the budget was to cut pay to "Those Girls" who work at the WBCCI headquarters.

To appreciate my point you have to have actually to know the Village of Jackson Center, Shelby County, Ohio. This is a one stop light town, in the middle of NOwhere. If you don't work for Thor, you're hurting. And Thor had lots of lay-off recently. Basically my point is this is a rather poor community in the best of times. And these are not the best of times...

So, to squander club resources to such a huge degree, and the first in line to pay for it are lowly staff in a struggling community, that no one sees? That stinks. I have no idea what they do, or earn, but NOBODY in Jackson Center is well off, by any means. Penalizing the most humble is cowardly, and it is not right.
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Old 02-20-2010, 07:37 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by 65GT View Post


Because of the confidentiality clause in our grievance policies, I cannot speak on any details of the latest grievance. The one thing I can say is with 3 grievances filed on the same person in less than 2 years, 32 pages of exhibits presented, and depending on the outcome of the current grievance, a fourth grievance is written and ready to be brought forward if necessary, the Grievance Committee had no other choice but to do their job and act. The EC and your President stand behind their decisions.

__

Wow. I'm flabbergasted.

If a fourth grievance has been written already, then it should be exposed to the light of day for all to see. Yes, I know, there's this little technicality about whether Leo is a member, and thus, the catch-22 element of this charade.

Who's willing to ask for it? Is it something that I can request? Or would it be more appropriate to come from a Region officer?


In the mean time then, can we see all 32 pages of exhibits, please? Are they already inside Airforums or Save Wally? I think that the WBCCI membership should have the opportunity to make their own critical evaluation of "the proof" used to prosecute Leo.

Though I understand that Leo's approach is not always the most gentle in the arguments he's made, I think that even the most conservative WBCCI member, when armed with the facts is likely to agree with him.


Tell me again, please, where I find "our grievance policies" in writing?


We've only been involved in Airstreaming & the WBCCI for a short period. The Airstreaming part has been, and I'm sure will continue to be great.

The WBCCI part is frighteningly similar to the circumstances under which I left a 25 year corporate career, a long time ago by now. I would hate to see this "company" destroyed, too.
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Old 02-20-2010, 07:47 AM   #111
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Leo:

I've seen your post above. I notice that you've pulled "WBCCI" from everything you're involved with which is likely in accordance with the order from the WBCCI. I haven't listened to your VAP visit, yet.

Maybe I've missed it (sorry, I read only at Airforums, not the seemingly 2-3 other places that Airstream / WBCCI discussions go on), but have you weighed in first-hand on your expulsion? Are you anti-WBCCI now? Are you still supporting it even though you've been forced to the outside? I'd really like to read your candid thoughts on the matter.
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Old 02-20-2010, 08:24 AM   #112
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Leo:
I haven't listened to your VAP visit, yet.
You and all those following this episode have to listen to the podcase. It features 50 minuets of comments from Leo and Rob.

http://www.thevap.com/vapcasts/vap0110.mp3
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Old 02-20-2010, 08:38 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy100 View Post
In the words of Dean Wormer:

"DOUBLE SECRET PROBATION!...There is a little known codicil in the Faber College constitution which gives the dean unlimited power to preserve order in time of campus emergency."

"Youv'e done it this buster! I'm calling the national office! I'm going to revoke your charter!"

"You're out! Finished at Faber! Expelled!"

Does life imitate art?
Did Tom C go to Faber College or was he in the movie? Maybe an Alferd Hitchcock cameo somewhere in the back of the marching band as they marched headlong into the WALL.
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Old 02-20-2010, 09:08 AM   #114
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Based on the IP letter there isn't a snowballs chance in Key West that he will ever be re-instated.

As I've been saying all along it would be a great case to put before a Court.

You know if he wins he will become the new IBT president

I firmly believe Leo would win a legal battle against the club, the issue is,
does he still have the fight left to take it on.

Or are you giving up----did they beat you?

ps: just spoke to someone at the Fla State rally, he spoke to Tom C directly and he is openly telling people about the new grievance and basically no way is Leo getting back in.
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Old 02-20-2010, 09:31 AM   #115
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Tom C is openly telling people about the new grievance
Against Leo??? why if he is no longer a member of the club?
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Old 02-20-2010, 09:32 AM   #116
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They need to be ousted! And face it they wont give you "permission" to do it. But that doesn't mean the leadership cannont be unseated! Before everyone rushes off to do no harm, give it an honest effort, imho.

The grievances are clearly a sham weighted against Leo and anyone else who speaks out, as was the misertable hack script on the forums.

How many WBCCI members will sign a petition to get these disreputable types out of power?

Maybe the MALs could sign and increase and then exert their single unit power to court other units as well to dislodge the irritant.

Who are the life members? Is there a list?

Fight 'em.
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Old 02-20-2010, 09:44 AM   #117
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Lightbulb

Carol, your wasting your time down that road.

Setup a
Leo G

LEGAL DEFENSE FUND


With about $7500 we can get the ball rolling in Federal Court in NY

A paypal trust account could be setup to accept contributions.
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Old 02-20-2010, 10:21 AM   #118
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Well Bob you have my loyalty but that kind of $$ is more than twice the membership fees. Still if we could do a fund raiser I will help work towards the goal. I am all for Leo G. and all he has done and tried to promote in the WBCCI!!!

The current IBT should be ashamed. I am. I just wish they would have to pay for their malice. A little recompense after all the time money effort and agony they have put members through seems to be in order. While they are looking for their next meal ticket and trinket buyer I think they should start to think long and hard about exactly what they have been doing illegally and immorally. That's my opinion.
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Old 02-20-2010, 10:37 AM   #119
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I said long ago I would support his defense fund and will now pledge $100.00 towards it. I want to see this go to court if for no other reason to see the TOP SECRET GRIEVANCE rules and the 32 pages of crap opened to the membership.

Come on people we have beaten this horse to death amongst ourselves to the entertainment of the guests reading our treads.

I also stated several years ago it is time that discussions be opened with Thor to enlist their support. Lets get the court case going and the second will be easy.

Had to shove a bit of snow but my trailer is in mourning
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Old 02-20-2010, 10:43 AM   #120
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I'll pledge a $100.00 Howie. And believe me that is not chump change since we are both looking for work, but I truly beieve in the cause. We were baldies all our 5-6 years so no black tape for us. Well maybe on our plexiglass.

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