July 5th IBT Seminar and Meeting Simulcast

[wkerfoot]

Originally Posted by wheel interested

Bill are there more PIPs that have motorhomes than newcomers? I know at Perry Mid-winter IBT I literally went door to door and counted the units but can't say offhand what that number was now but the most prominent parking spots were filled with motorhomes that apparently have all timed out and need replacing.

Carol,

I agree with your statement, but that was not the question.

Bill

[wheel interested]

Thanks Bill, your information is appreciated. I am truly curious at this point to know just who wants a new motorhome so badly that it has to be new rather than an Airstream and who has that much clout to change more than a half a century of tradition in an Airstream only club to accommodate themselves. And once again the issue isn't being with friends but changing the constitution to contine to preside over an Airstream club without meeting the club's requirements and premise and excluding other members from office and membership at their own discretion.

[Coloradobus]

Carol, Jerry Larson has one of last classic diesel pushers. There were three of them in Gillette, that we counted. Doug Wylie has a 34 Limited Tri-axle.

Lewster, we are members of the BAC as well. We own one of the 33 busses Beaver converted.

[wheel interested]

Thank you. It's a shame this issue has to even be addressed again within the club because it can lead to misunderstandings. The first time around was brutal in terms of hurt feelings and no one is going to want to repeat that again. But there was a legitimate vote and the answer was no. I would even like to see Region 4 President's stats on the units' vote since local members are reporting no vote having taken place that they were aware of. The issue is not one of Airstream motorhomes but of any brand or specifically any Thor brand of motorhomes being allowed into the WBCCI for an increase in membership and revenue. From that standpoint there seems little justification in limiting that to current owners or members or to Thor products or even to motorhome RV vehicles for that matter. Some may hedge and say this is only an action to be put before the membership again, but I see it as yet another opportunity for IBT leadership to have stood up and made a stand on behalf of the majority of membership that is not in acceptance of this measure. Members "pay" these people to travel to spend their time working for the club's benefit. I would like to see that happen and not see meeting time spent on improving their personal situation within the club. I would love to speak to every member in favor of bringing this back again and see that it is true.

[RickDavis]

I find it difficult to believe that all the region 4 units voted on this and yet it didn't surface until during the international.

Just walked in the door, returning from an excellent Birthday Bash

[Rhonda]

I can say the Metro Detroit unit didn't vote on this when we had our last official meeting a couple of months ago.

[Coloradobus]

Larry Huttles's speech last week in Gillette said Airstream would explore an idea of some sort of Airstream badged Class A that would not be sold or serviced by Airstream Dealers. But this action had to involve more than an handful of owners. The push maybe coming from Airsteam. A few years ago, a PIP was overheard telling another individual that he had promised Airstream the club name change. Just look at the WBCCI stationary, the headliner is "Airstream Owners Association" even after we passed resoundingly, "no name change."

[HowieE]

Originally Posted by Coloradobus

Larry Huttles's speech last week in Gillette said Airstream would explore an idea of some sort of Airstream badged Class A that would not be sold or serviced by Airstream Dealers. But this action had to involve more than an handful of owners. The push maybe coming from Airsteam. A few years ago, a PIP was overheard telling another individual that he had promised Airstream the club name change. Just look at the WBCCI stationary, the headliner is "Airstream Owners Association" even after we passed resoundingly, "no name change."

Can you post a copy of this letterhead?

[66Overlander]

Originally Posted by wheel interested

I am wondering what unit didn't want the motorhome issue to be addressed again in region 4, Nova, too new probably, Metro Detroit? 13 units out of 14 voted for this.

I am a member of three Region 4 Units, and have not heard this motion discussed in any of those three units, nor in the Region 4 Presidents monthly newsletter. There is no way that 13 of 14 Units passed that motion. At most 13 of 14 Unit Presidents expressed support on their own without asking their full unit membership about the idea.

I can say this, if this motion passes, they'll lose far more Airstream trailer owners than the number of Airstream motorhome owners they'd retain (or attract if this is more than "grandfathering"). Lorrie and I will likely be one of the ones lost. We joined an Airstream club. Period.

Do we feel bad for Airstream Motorhome owners - yes? The only viable solution would be for Airstream to go back into the Class A motorhome business. Anything else damages the integrity of the club. Pass this motion and the clubs slide into oblivion may be irreversible.

[wkerfoot]

The region 4 web site states that there are 15 units in that region. What happened to the other unit?

Bill

[wheel interested]

Bill thank you. I wonder if that is updated including Nova that was just approved this week. That would make even more units, 15? And thank you Joe. That is very interesting Joe about those 3 units not having a membership vote about this motion brought forth on their collective units' behalf. From the way it was presented it appeared to be of members' origination and not the IBT's, and yet none of the region 4 members that I have heard from had heard a thing about this motion that their units reportedly backed. To the best of my recollection it sounded like this to me,

John Turner: "John Turner, President Region 4
I move that the IBT create a committee and that the International President appoint the committee members to study the acceptance of a Class A motorhome manufactured by Thor Manufacturing into the WBCCI for current and past members.

To move this forward as soon as possible it would be beneficial if the committee could bring a report to the mid-winter IBT in January 2011."

IP: "Is there a second? June Ryan. Is there any discussion from the board? Excuse me. Please read your rationale."

John Turner: "Rationale: We are representing only 2/3rds of the membership by not having a Class A motorhome available to current and past members to replace the units they have or had. As time passes we are losing alot of motorhome members and potential members. The motorhome owner could be issued a special decal by WBCCI designating it as a Special Edition Airstream. The member owning one of these motorhomes would be able to continue in the WBCCI.

This motion came from Region 4 units, was approved by the Region 4 Board, 13 out of 14 units voted 'yes'."

IP: "Thank you. Is there any discussion from the Board?"

[LI Pets]

Originally Posted by 66Overlander

I am a member of three Region 4 Units, and have not heard this motion discussed in any of those three units, nor in the Region 4 Presidents monthly newsletter. There is no way that 13 of 14 Units passed that motion. At most 13 of 14 Unit Presidents expressed support on their own without asking their full unit membership about the idea..

Originally Posted by wheel interested

John Turner: "Rationale:
This motion came from Region 4 units, was approved by the Region 4 Board, 13 out of 14 units voted 'yes'."

So this is a fabricated statement?

Then the motion should be voided.

Someone needs to write the IP a letter

.

[wheel interested]

Since there is interest among the members about the motorhome issue I thought it would be helpful and appropriate to add the discussion to show the positions and options that were considered with the new motion.

IP: "Thank you. Is there any discussion from the Board? June Ryan"

June Ryan: "June Ryan Region 8
We're concerned about membership and if we cannot get these Airstream motorhomes replaced with something other than an "X" brand we're losing members, so we need to make sure that this is brought forth and give a committee of some kind to find something for us. We have 109,000 miles on our 2000 motorhome and I don't know how much longer it's going to hold together. And there's others in the same situation so I think this is a motion that we need to look at."

IP: "Louise"

Louise Humbolt: "Louise Humbolt Region 5 President
Since this motion is a motion to create a committee to study only and since it has come from the membership and 13 of 14 units approved it, I would support this."

IP: "Anything else from the board? John"

John Turner: "I would like to support what Louise had to say about it. This is to appoint a committee and they would bring a report, not a motion, a report to the winter IBT on what options, Laryy Huttle opened this door. He was at our May region rally and he's been talking to Thor and going through one of their divisions to try to solve this problem. And that's what this is, fact finding."

IP: "Rick"

Rick Bell(?): Since this is a motion to bring it forward then I will support it. However region 3, everybody I've talked to, are 100%, well almost 100%, 80% against anything not carrying the name Airstream on the label. If it carries Airstream on the title then they will support it no matter what the vehicle is, but if it does not carry Airstream on the title then they are very, very, very opposed."

IP: Dan

Dan DuMarco: "Dan DuMarco Region 11 President
I was a proud owner of a B-Van. The B-Van started out manufactured by Okanogon. Airstream purchased those from Okanagan as an incomplete vehicle, then dressed them up and finished them out, put their name and the vin number on it and it was sold as an Airstream. Airstream didn't make the B-Van and they could do the same thing with another Thor product. They could buy an incomplete vehicle and it would carry an incomplete vin from the manufacturer to airstream. Airstream finishes it out. They could put an Airstream label on it without having the commitment of a huge manufacturing plant to completely build the unit and that's what in the past we've done, that we're doing that again with the current B-Vans."

IP: "John"

John Stumph: "John Stumph President of Region 6
As I recall one of the big problems that they talked about when this thing came up before is who's going to service these? At that time Airstream did not want the responsibility of doing the warranty work on these units and that's going to be one of the things that comes up again. Who's going to warrant who's going to service these units?"

IP: "June"

June Ryan: "June Ryan Region 8
The warantees come from Allison or the diesel makers. They come from the transmission. They come from the refrigerators, the air conditioners and things like that. Airstream doesn't do much servicing, I don't think, on a motorhome."

IP: "Louise"

Louise Humboldt: "Louise Humboldt Region 5
May I reiterate that this motion is to form a committee only to study? we are not having to worry about these other things at this point, just do we form a committee or not."

IP: "Vice presidents? Any questions or comments from the audience?"

Ralph Forester: "Ralph Forester Mid Atlantic Unit
I would like to address one point made here and it would be to the members of the committee if they are appointed. I just heard that if it doesn't have Airstream on the title you can't be a member. i want to remind you we had a cover story from a vintage Bowles Arrow that is a member of Wally Byam Caravan Club."

IP: "Mr. Ewles"

Daryl Ewles: "Daryl Ewles.
Speaking as a member of the Florida treasure Coast I too is the one to the region presidents spoke. i have close to 110,000 miles on my motorhome and it's very scary. I just spent $3,000 this spring for work on it. Ah, but let's remember we are not talking about an Airstream motorhome. It aint gonna be an Airstream motorhome, it aint never gonna be an Airstream motorhome, so let's promote the club with that decal. Let's look at it from the standpoint of having that decal. I don't care if you want to put Airstream on it, but let's put the club on it for sure."

IP: "Jim"

Jim Almare: "Jim Almare San Fernando Valley Unit
All the Airstream motorhomes that exist today were not manufactured solely by Airstream. They're all built on somebody else's chasis. It was never any other way. Airstream is also on record, they are not going back into the motorhome business, period. Thor is the parent club of Airstream. My contention has always been and will continue to be, 'it is about people, not product.' We've had discussions today about extended families and what they're worth. Remember that. I also think that forming a committee with no power to form a motion is going to be too little too late."

IP: "Mr. McKelvy"

Don McKelvy: "Don McKelvey Ontario Canada Unit
There seems to be a difference between the motion. It says current and past members and the rationale talks about motorhome owners. We need to be clear about what is going to be. If we are going to do something like this then it should be for everyone, not just the current motorhome owners, because I may today be fine with an Airstream, but tomorrow I may have to for a physical reason or whatever need a motorhome, so it should be for all members."

IP: "Mr. Ewles, constitution and by-laws angle? thank you. Ron"

Ron: "We often speak of membership retention. I know the Past International President that are with us today that are not going to be with us tomorrow or just down the road a little ways. they are going to leave us to purchse another unit in which they couldn't buy through airstream. mine now has 142,000 miles on it and who knows when I'm going to have to get rid of it and buy another one. I also know two other people who have purchased other units, no longer members of Airstream and I don't know how many more fall into this category, but I do think we need a committee to study it very carefully. Thank you."

IP: "This motion will go forward to the IBT"
　
　
　
　

[xrvr]

I hope those with over 1000000 miles on their AS motorhomes and think they are now junk, sell them at junk prices so those like me can afford to buy them! zz OOPS that is 100000 miles. zz

[LI Pets]

A diesel should go 400,000 miles plus,

I guess these owners never heard of rebuilding an engine.

[RickDavis]

I think it is interesting to note that when this club reached it's peak. at least in international attendance. around 1976, there was no such thing as an Airstream Motor Home and the Argosy MH had only been around a couple years and may not have been allowed in the club yet.
It seems to me to be pretty simple. Either give up the club when the MH dies, or buy a trailer.
I have little sympathy for one who is crying about the eminent demise of their motorhome at at 100k miles.
But then I am towing a 49 year old trailer with a truck with 552k on it

[Coloradobus]

I agree with Rick. 100K miles on a Class A especially a diesel pusher, has several hundred thousand miles of good RV use. Our current Class A by Beaver is 1992 vintage. One sibing coach to ours has almost 200,000 miles on it with original owner
Heck the Beaver Ambassador Club membership gal with her husband have over 256,000 miles on their 1991 Beaver Marquis.
So the argument of Airstream Class A Coach owner ,June Ryan, who has 106,000 miles on it and she says she doesn't know how long they can keep putting back together falls on my deaf ears.
We have 40,000 miles on our 1984 Airstream 270. Sure, rubber products, like bushings, ball joint boots etc, all wear out mostly from age, but that is part of routine lifetime maintenance.
Their is a share of the Class A market that wants the latest and greatest, and that keeps the RV industry in business.
In the mid 2000's, there was burgeoning of RV builders flooding the market when money was cheap. Now, with the economic re-alignment, product reduction ensued with less variety. However, some highend coach builders like Liberty Coach of Illinois who converts the Prevost shell, have had a resurgence in sales this quarter of 25% over last year. If its a question of Airstream not wanting to manufacture the whole Class A motorhome, perhaps they should explore converting a Prevost Bus shell, which would require only converting the interior into a motorhome.

1995 Marathon XLV 452011 Liberty Coach H345 Quad Slide

[Coloradobus]

This is our plan:

We have Airstreams for the WBCCI
We have A Beaver Coach when we do the BAC ( Beaver Ambassador Club)
We have a Bus for Prevost Owners Group (POG, but you can own any RV and belong)
I don't see the problem.
Those that own CLass A Airstream Cutter diesel, XC360 or 390, or Land Yacht widebody or Classic diesel or gas, buy another Class A and tow a Base Camp or Bambi, or Safari Sport.

[lewster]

These types of RVs are my main business. Many of my clients will trade up after a few years of ownership....some every year.

The new ones keep me going as they ALWAYS have repair punch lists which many do not take back to dealers if they are staying on their 'RV RESORT' pads that they own here in SW Florida for several months at a time.

When they switch brands, as many do on a trade-up to a nicer, bigger, more expensive coach, they NEVER whine about wanting to remain in their old single-branded club. They drive, stay and rally with their old friends anyway and many of these events are open to bringing friends with other makes along for the party.

I think that the myopic view of the WBCCI elite is just that.... ELITIST! Especially for one of the oldest single branded RV clubs (if not THE oldest) in this country.

Club rules are supposed to apply to everyone, unless of course you are in a power position and you can change the rules to suit your needs.
I guess they'll never learn........

I would surely bail from the WBCCI (if I was still a member) if they allowed SOBs into the club. A very large part of joining was to be in a single-brand club with other folks owning the same type of units.

I have the FMCA for the general membership thing.

[MRHottinger]

Originally Posted by Coloradobus

This is our plan:

... buy another Class A and tow a Base Camp or Bambi, or Safari Sport.

Now there is a neat idea. There is always a way to belong if you just think outside the box... I dont even own an AS yet but I have belonged to BMWCCA and when the BMW was replaced so was the membership. I could have replaced with another BMW and stayed but then that is not where my life was headed at the time. I applaud the passion most of the membership demonstrate in the pride of being part of such a prestigous club. The club politics sound like all politics, they help themselves and the little people will just have to follow. Keep up the good fight and retain your club the way the founder deisgned it to be. I feel the voice of the membership will be heard.
Mike